Where were you before you were born....?

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posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by rival

Originally posted by nightbringr
An idea ive had lately that has taken hold is that we are eternal, spiritual beings.

While physical existance can be hellish at times, id like to suggest it might be nothing compared to the crippling boredom that might set in after trillions of years of being alive. Yes, things may be wonderful and new when we die, but watching big bang after big bang, exploring every corner of the multi-verse and more, i can imagine a brutal, oppressive boredom setting in. Perhaps our eternal souls wish to rest, or at least forget for a time and we choose to reincarnate as a physical being on one of the billions of habitable planets in this universe and beyond!

Just food for thought.


This is more than food for thought, for me. It is the way I have felt for many years...

...that we are here for the experience . And I don't believe that it matters if that experience is good or bad...
because the experience was the goal...perhaps like a vacation from eternity...



Me three.
I wrote about that in another thread and I arrived at that conclusion (speculative of course) because the common thing I found between all life forms is "personal experiences"




www.abovetopsecret.com...
I think in finding the answer to the meaning of life maybe we need to find the common denominators between all life forms and list the scientific facts that can relate to living and death. If it exists in all life forms then it has to be of some importance in the overall picture.

Definition of life: At minimum it must have a brain. No souls required.

1. One thing that you ,I, and animals have in common is our OWN personal experiences. Might be a reason for that?




posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by rival
Have you ever given any thought to this question?

And I believe it is a good question--because neither theists, nor atheists ever seem to address it.


Only a person with Agnostic views knows and can accept the truth. We have no clue and its all pure speculation.

However, the laws of physics which have yet to be disproved state:
1. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Only converted from one form to another
2. Our body is a form of energy while we are alive, hence we require food. We take food calories from the food we eat and transform it in our bodies in order to live. without it we die.
3. Hence when we die that energy (possibly what some refer to soul) will likely be recycled to the universal constant energy source.
4. Hence prior to being born we were likely a form of energy or energies as well.

Beyond that its pure speculations. Where did that constant energy come from is pure speculation as well (Big Bang scenario), and is like asking what came first the chicken or the egg with our existing knowledge? What existed before big bang or created things before big bang, no idea but I can speculate?


And that is exactly what this thread is about--speculation and discussion. I know there are no yogis
sitting atop mountains with all the answers, but I thought perhaps there were a few ATS'ers who might
have an interest in tough questions like this.

Anyway....here is a little humor from the perspective of what "might" happen after we die
from Father Guido...

Vita est Lavorum (life is a job)



edit on 13-6-2012 by rival because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369
The clump of cells that produce my conciousness did not exist before I was conceived, and I did not become self-aware until around 2 years after I was born, just like every single person who has ever existed.

Its a silly question meant to indulge those with a 'spiritual' disposition and who enjoy thinking of themselves as something special in this universe.

Accept your mortality people....


The nature of matter is life. When it organizes, it becomes life forms. Life is something special. But the universe is too. Specialness is relative.
edit on 13-6-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by rival
 


Thats pretty funny had not seen that video before. He might be onto something there.

Our job could be to collect experiences and dump them into the universal RAM. Maybe we get access and get to share that knowledge or maybe we were created to provide the task of gathering that information for other higher life forms?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by marg5
I was briefly removed from a lucid dream and shown.

.....one spark in an infinite black emptiness that was me and everything else.

A person on this forum suggested that I had experienced Turiya which is a state of pure conciousness

en.wikipedia.org...

It felt great!


I had a similar experience. Though in my instance, it was like the little spark that is me, joined and became one with an incredibly pure and infinite light. There was then no sense of "I" or time or anything else from this point, apart from simple awareness and the most profound beauty that words can't explain. A shame it ever stopped.

I would like to pass it off with the normal scientific type explanations, yet somehow I can't. Experience this profound leaves me very aware of the possibility that there is a lot more to us than we understand as yet (IMO).



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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I was the king of Atlantis.....riding my pink unicorn into battle against the evil vampire dragon-rider horde. We almost lost when they sunk our city. But we were saved by the Merfolk... and taken to shore in Modern Day Iraq.

I was a King I tell thee!!! A KING!
edit on 13-6-2012 by AtcGod because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by AtcGod
I was the king of Atlantis.....riding my pink unicorn into battle against the evil vampire dragon-rider horde. We almost lost when they sunk our city. But we were saved by the Merfolk... and taken to shore in Modern Day Iraq.

I was a King I tell thee!!! A KING!
edit on 13-6-2012 by AtcGod because: (no reason given)


You sound like Aladeen from "The Dictator". lol



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to [url= by rival[/url]
 



Most vertebrates are concious to some extent, and yes conciousness is reliant upon you existing as a biological being and everything that entails. And while we don't know everything about conciousness, to then insert some kind of supernatural explanation smacks of religious desperation.

Its seems as-though when you say conciousness you actually mean personality, everyone is born as a blank slate and its our experiences and environment that determine what make 'us' who we are. You are who you are you because of whats happened throughout your life. Had you lived a different life you would be a very different person. If you had lived a previous life, then that life and all the experiences and memories that came with it would determine who you are in this life.

IMHO you are indulging peoples fear of mortality, along with your own as there's no reason why you would go looking or 'soul-searching' if you didn't already want such concepts to be true.

edit on 13-6-2012 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
The nature of matter is life. When it organizes, it becomes life forms. Life is something special. But the universe is too. Specialness is relative.
edit on 13-6-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)


While I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, I completely agree that we as organisms that exist and survive despite in this harsh and unforgiving universe are special, its just that for some people that isn't enough......



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Let me see, oh, i was in the whom. not born yet.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by AtcGod
I was the king of Atlantis.....riding my pink unicorn into battle against the evil vampire dragon-rider horde. We almost lost when they sunk our city. But we were saved by the Merfolk... and taken to shore in Modern Day Iraq.

I was a King I tell thee!!! A KING!
edit on 13-6-2012 by AtcGod because: (no reason given)



No chance.

I now know without any doubt you are given to the odd "pork pie". It's well known that Kings were always mounted on white unicorns, in Atlantis. Unless you were a very effeminate King (Queen) who liked pink?


edit on 13-6-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by rival
 


I was four separate diamond star halos, gleaming thru the eyes of my Mom and Dad. They made me what I am today. Their love for each other brought me forth from the hall of souls. It is called the guff. BTW I remember being born and something going on even before that. As if I were appointed.

Thank you so much for giving me a reason to share this. I don't believe any other question would have sufficed.

SnF in big way.
edit on 13-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by smithjustinb
The nature of matter is life. When it organizes, it becomes life forms. Life is something special. But the universe is too. Specialness is relative.
edit on 13-6-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)


While I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, I completely agree that we as organisms that exist and survive despite in this harsh and unforgiving universe are special, its just that for some people that isn't enough......


I'm saying life can't come from not-life, so in order for us to exist, we have to have always existed. The only other thing I know of that has always existed is energy. So. Life is energy and energy is life.

Its obvious, to me, that the emergence of life forms in the universe is more than just an accident. There is something present within the fundamental structure of the universe (spacetime, matter, and electromagnetism) that makes emerging life forms an inevitability. The universe needs to be observed and be known. I believe that without life, the very laws of physics themself would fall apart. Life has to exist.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by sugarcookie1
 




I was in the "The Guff" or "The Hall of Souls"

I concur with this much anyway. This is what I know without speculation.
edit on 13-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

I'm saying life can't come from not-life


That's mere speculation


The only other thing I know of that has always existed is energy.


What about matter? how do you know it hasn't always existed?




Life is energy and energy is life.


Just about everything we know about the universe says otherwise




There is something present within the fundamental structure of the universe that makes emerging life forms an inevitability.


Yep, its name is..............................chemistry

ask Walter White



edit on 13-6-2012 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to [url= by sugarcookie1[/url]
 




I was in the "The Guff" or "The Hall of Souls"

I concur with this much anyway. This is what I know without speculation.


Last time I was in The Hall of Souls we had a really terrible healer and the DPS was very low.........



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by smithjustinb

I'm saying life can't come from not-life


That's mere speculation


Yeah. Speculation of things that are obvious and self evident, like the color blue. It was a while before we proved that blue was blue because it was a particular frequency of light. Before that, we were unable to say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that blue was really blue. But did we need to know that it was a certain frequency of light to know that it was blue? Of course not. Some truths are just self-evident. Science is good at finding things out, but its slow in respect to finding out things that are already common knowledge to those who don't rely on it.

The first single celled organism emerged automatically equipped with the ability to reproduce. Think about that. Propogation was in its DNA. Propogation is found at the root of all of our drives towards anything we call intelligent behavior. This kind of fundamental intelligence principle existed before it was learned by life forms. Therefore, intelligence prededed intelligent forms.



Life is energy and energy is life.


Just about everything we know about the universe says otherwise


Not saying that and saying something in opposition to that are two different things. Not being discovered and being proven to be false are two different things. You show me where I've been proven wrong and I will gladly change my beliefs. But don't waste your time showing me something that still leaves it up for debate.





There is something present within the fundamental structure of the universe that makes emerging life forms an inevitability.


Yep, its name is..............................chemistry

ask Walter White



edit on 13-6-2012 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)


Chemistry deals with organizations of base elements. One day, during a probe into an explanation for consciousness, they will discover that it is actually part of everything that exists, and not just specific organizations of elements.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by rival
 


As an atheist there is no NEED to address the question, as it is entirely nonsensical from a naturalistic perspective. The matter that we are made of is reorganized via the chemical reactions that take place after conception, before that I didn't exist in any sense.

And where did the matter come from for life? From stardust essentially:



Often when asked what death will be like atheists will say, "it will be like it was before I was born" referring to non-existence. The question of where we were before we were born doesn't make sense.

The matter that went to making us up existed of course but it was not organized via chemistry into a human being yet.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I can see where the basics of "consciousness" could be something universal. Though that's only speculation. Yet we know that to become conscious in the way we understand it, requires a nervous system, with more advanced creatures requiring a more advanced nervous system. Perhaps there is more to it than this? How does seemingly unconscious matter, when arranged a certain way, become conscious? As mysterious as gravity in some ways, in as much as we are certain it exists, yet we can't really define exactly what it consists of (so far). There is a lot we don't know about this subject. It will be the last frontier for science IMO.

Though the only honest answer to the the question from the op is...I don't know.



edit on 13-6-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by rival
 


your post is actually a zen koan

if you've never heard of zen koans before check this

basically they are like riddles that you have to formulate your own answer to. there is some debate about this, but basically if i figure out a koan and explain it to you its ineffective because its my own realization, you have to figure it out for yourself to gain any merit or possible enlightenment

here is the particular koan i was referring to: original face

edit on 13/6/12 by emptyOmind because: (no reason given)





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