Chemtrails: what do you make out of these vids?

reply to post by PluPerfect


Well, sure this youtube tanker-dude surely has his own motives, and re-labeling, mis-interpreting - which all may be just publicity seeking, or it could be just about downplaying, miscredting too.
The German video just triggered thinking more about alternative military applications.

reply to post by NoRemorse762

I like the over the horizon radar concept though, plausible.

Not plausible at all. Particles composed of any material would not bend radio waves. Aerosol particles if large enough would scatter radar signals, that's how weather radar works. That's what chaff does.

If too small they would have no effect at all other than attenuating the signal.

reply to post by Phage


Yeah I wasn't biting to hard on that one. I had never even heard of it. It sounded plausible because radio waves do bounce off the ionosphere over the horizon. Being the radar is radio waves on a different wavelength I thought possible. I thought at best, like you said about the chaff dispersion, all you could get was a inconsistent return and nothing more.

reply to post by Phage


Hmm... Barium seems to have to do with radar things after all
books.google.se...
www.dtic.mil...

reply to post by deckdel


This should be fun....

reply to post by deckdel


Now this turns out to be interesting: www.agu.org...

"...acting like MHD generator coupled with ionosphere"

Wow

reply to post by deckdel


And the Navy even patented the distribution technology... LOL www.luxefaire.com...

Its getting too hot. We can pretty much understand by now the versatile purposes of barium clouds, and surely enough, are fairly limited in scale. And may be subject of continued research (which seems to have been going on for decades by now anyway).

Originally posted by deckdel
reply to post by Phage

 

Hmm... Barium seems to have to do with radar things after all
books.google.se...
www.dtic.mil...

Wrong way around.

both of these links are about how radar is used to study barium clouds, not how barium clouds help or affect radar.

the barium clouds are released to study the upper atmosphere - in the 2nd link there is a list of barium releases from 120-186 KILOMETERS - that is 400,000+ feet altitude. this has ben going on since at least the early 1960's.

Ain't no airliners flying at that altitude!!

reply to post by deckdel

I said barium (or any other particle) does not bend radar signals.
I said, that if large enough, the particles scatter the signal. Some of that signal returns to the receiver (backscatter). That is how radar works. Just like weather radar.

Backscatter cross sections of 104 km2 were found at early times for two of the releases, whereas photographs indicate cloud sizes were less than 102 km 2 . The echo amplitudes observed at Homer (line-of-sight 725-km range and 5 off-perpendicular from magnetic field at cloud) were 10 to 15 dB less than those at Kodiak (925 km and 30).

www.dtic.mil...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Correct.

The 4th topic on the list was that barium thing, which in the news vid was claimed to come from jets. BUT, we now know, the intended purposes for these clouds require higher altitudes (for meaningful purposes), and thus, the barium reported there, was most likely not from the airliner.

ON THE OTHER HAND, the Navy patented distribution system (for jets) is intended even for other purposes (creating thin filaments - there are Nasa studies on those). The intended purposes are outlined in the patent itself.

However, I tend to agree with you, the real use is in the upper atmosphere (MHD generator coupling with ionosphere).

reply to post by deckdel

Now this turns out to be interesting

Would you care to explain what the article is talking about?

reply to post by Phage


The point there is these higher atmosphere barium clouds act as MHD generators coupled with ionosphere. This is a very interesting concept, which may be the technique used at one particular defense method against ballistic missiles and their war heads. Figure out the rest which this leads to... This is the rumored modus operandi for "HAARP"...
(MHD = magneto hydrodynamic drive) ... As a generator, it creates flow of particles. And in this case cyclotronic ionised particles from the barium cloud, which build up a high charge plasma "shield" towards the ionosphere (since the MHD generator was coupled with it). When a missile / war head hits that high charged plasma shield it gets instantaneously neutralised, zapped.

reply to post by deckdel


Lol. Actually, if one follows the barium clouds - one follows their system development life-cycle, and development of operational capabilities. This has been a true "mega project", spanning over decades. Created scientific knowledge. Created theoretical application models. Developed actual technology components (system of systems). And pre-operational concepts. I love the way their mind works.

reply to post by deckdel

You realize that the solar wind acts like a MHD generator when it interacts with the magnetosphere, right? There is a lot of solar wind out there.

Are you suggesting that a barium cloud would be a good defense against a ballistic missile? I'm don't know how you figure that but I guess the NMD is a waste of time if all we need is to launch a barium cloud. Funny.

reply to post by Phage


Sure enough, the cloud itself is just one component, mainly energy transfer, pump. It would be a total travesty if we figured out everything in a matter of few hours. But the general picture "might" be in those lines.

Or then they have just been having fun with barium...

reply to post by Phage


by the way - valid point this solar radiation.

The solar storms charges up the upper atmosphere, which disrupts communications. Also it affects directly the satellites as well. Occasionally also causing nationwide black-outs.

However, we cannot control Sun. If we can control how to "pump up" the ionosphere locally with a plasma shield - then we can achieve similar effects, if not even better.

Originally posted by deckdel
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, the Navy patented distribution system (for jets) is intended even for other purposes (creating thin filaments - there are Nasa studies on those). The intended purposes are outlined in the patent itself.

Yep -

The present invention relates to method and apparatus for contrail generation and the like. An earlier known method in use for contrail generation involves oil smoke trails produced by injecting liquid oil directly into the hot jet exhaust of an aircraft target vehicle. The oil vaporizes and recondenses being the aircraft producing a brilliant white trail. Oil smoke trail production requires a minimum of equipment; and, the material is low in cost and readily available. However, oil smoke requires a heat source to vaporize the liquid oil and not all aircraft target vehicles, notably towed targets, have such a heat source. Also, at altitudes above about 25,000 feet oil smoke visibility degrades rapidly.

IE for making targets, especially towed targets, more visible when they do not actualy have a heat generation source of their own.

What is the relevance to commercial aircraft making contrails?

Originally posted by deckdel
reply to post by Phage

 

However, we cannot control Sun. If we can control how to "pump up" the ionosphere locally with a plasma shield - then we can achieve similar effects, if not even better.

Indeed.

Do you have any actual evidence of any such "pumping up"?

reply to post by deckdel


Well folks, this might lead to a whole new thread, but there being a connection between barium clounds, MHD coupling (energy transfer method) to ionosphere, potential defense interest.... Here's some additional food for thought: tao.cgu.org.tw...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


To reply your question: none what so ever.

But this is the distribution method for many things, that including lower level barium clouds (which most likely is not needed since decades ago).