Western US Sheriffs gather to discuss their Constitutional authority.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Same thing with friggin' ethics. People were, once upon a time, basically ethical in their dealings with others (handshake contracts anyone?) until colleges started adding ethics to their business courses and it wasn't very long before that, too, became a thing of the past. Now its hard to trust ourselves, much less anyone else.

Are you kidding me? You think the past is some sort of idyllic, honorable narnia,, and blame the supposed collapse of this supposed idyllic past on college courses?

SERIOUSLY?

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Same thing with friggin' ethics. People were, once upon a time, basically ethical in their dealings with others (handshake contracts anyone?) until colleges started adding ethics to their business courses and it wasn't very long before that, too, became a thing of the past. Now its hard to trust ourselves, much less anyone else.

Are you kidding me? You think the past is some sort of idyllic, honorable narnia,, and blame the supposed collapse of this supposed idyllic past on college courses?

SERIOUSLY?

Would you say that people in government/business have become more ethical since the introduction of these courses? Do you even remember a time when handshake contracts were the norm? If so, where do you put the blame for pernicious corruption we're experiencing throughout this country, and how so many sheriffs are more concerned with evicting people from their homes than they are with evicting or shutting down corporations within their territorial jurisdiction that are damaging the environment and the people?

reply to post by SilentKillah

Better yet... re-introducing wolves to their former natural habitat after humans killed them off and ran them away?

Stupid idea of the millenium...
Those critters endanger people and decimate livestock. They were exterminated for good reasons. Our government has shown many signs of insanity.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar

 

yeah, i read the Constitution once or twice.

i've also read stories about the type of discourse this is we are having. been there, done that.

you guys can try and spin the idea of insurrection and civil war and call it something else, but it is what it is.

because civil war in this country is not possible at present, i'm not even going to make a big thing about it.

but its important that the young people that frequent this site and read these threads be able to identify the type of conversations that lead to situations where their lives are destroyed and rights truly stripped.

the people we are...but the people having these conversations don't have any armies, they don't have any legitimacy and they don't have a ice cube's chance in hell of being successful at being anything other than what they are and they should be happy and take a nap or something.

"Rights truly stripped" ??? sounds a bit cryptic.

Uh, rights are being stripped everywhere whether you know it or not. What the hell do armies have to do with it? You either obey the law or you don't. And what does "young people" have to do with this?
Are you saying only young people care about unalienable rights, freedom, and justice?

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

reply to post by michaelbrux


Whoa!! I had no idea!! ... I'm off now to read about her.

The older I get the more I realize that the world and history is not what we were taught in school.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar

 

sheriffs are nothing special. their states are swamped with debt and every government in this land is little more than a debtor in possession.

maybe they should be having a meeting to figure out how they are going to pay back all that money they borrowed.

The solution to this is teaching to future generations to not get into debt and only borrow when they know they can pay back. Banks do not like people who are free. They want to lend to the irresponsible. Remember the old days of people "living within their means"? It teaches people survival skills. This way the community can come together and get to know their neighbors and help out each other so those poor guys who need the most help get it without digging themseles into so much debt. You see humanity come together in times of trouble.

The story of a stranger coming to donate money anonymously. The guy who returns a person's lost wallet without taking the money. A child who gives up a seat for an old lady on a bus so she doesn't have to stand.

It goes back to how you were raised and all those old school moral codes previous generations had. The children are you future. I know that sounds so cliche but it is true. You must lead by example. Otherwise those kids end up in gangs or on the street drugged up and non-productive members of society. In modern times people are much more mercenary, angry, and lost patience. Over time people are more dysfunctional imo

People need to stop obsessing over money so much. The form of money you use today is just a IOU. It's a promise that something of value can be exchanged for it. It has no inherent value of its own like say a hammer which you can use to hammer nails to bujild things, or a watch you can use to tell time, or a car that will provide the ability to travel etc (ie things which provide some value to you) The things people built and the people that did it IS the value. The money is just the IOU that the guy who receives it accepts as valueable from you because he agrees the IOU will be honored at some point later. (which is not true)

When money is devalued through monetary inflation (not to be confused with the inflation of goods and services which may fluctuate based on real life supply demand) you can decide to negotiate with anyone on how to pay and ask if they will accept something in return for their serices/good other than a IOU which has no inherent value of its own. (like you might give him a diamond ring worth hundreds of dollars instead of hundreds of dollars and if he says "ok deal" then both parties can get things done.

Banks will hate you doing that because as I said: they make money putting you in debt and you agree to take their money. Value the people and the things of actual value that money is used on. Not the IOU which can't be used immediately to hammer a nail in the wall, the watch which tells you the time whenever you want, and the car that lets you travel quickly from place to place. Money is merely the ones and zeros in a computer. (I'm an IT guy, that is the binary language computers use to represent numbers) It's like monopoly money or fake virtual money you use in videogames. People accept it on faith that the promise will be kept on the face of it. Not that the paper it is written on is useful.

In fact everytime you pay back your debt to the lender (who gave you "promise to pay" notes of paper) with debt ("promise to pay" notes which you attained working) you create even more debt in the system. (the bank can print more IOUs in circulation from the guy who paid off his loan now, because money has been paid/deposited in the virtual make-believe vault which the banker can lend to someone else now). lol You are the money because you have value. You fulfill the promise by agreeing to accept the promise from others and doing useful productive things that the community see value in.. Theoretically under the fiat currency system (where the currency's value can expand and contract) the guy who prints the "promises to pay" notes determines how much your work is worth (causing you to be a slave to have to work longer hours because of devalued money) by simply devaluing the currency and by printing it like crazy, or starving the economy by not printing enough to go around, forcing goods and services to be worth less. (putting stress on business who have to sell valuable things at loss, causing them to slowly go out of business and then the tax payers have to bail them out if deemed important enough to be required to continue)

Remember to not obsess over the fiat currency so much.

reply to post by Snake Plisskin


I'm probably younger and less experienced and knowledgeable than you.

Do you know what a Government is?

A Government is a Barrier, not much different than a wall or fence. just more advanced.

The only people that could possibly want it altered in strange ways are the ones that are outside and inhibited by the barrier so that they can destroy the ones that are protected by it or for who's benefit it was constructed.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Snake Plisskin

 

I'm probably younger and less experienced and knowledgeable than you.

Do you know what a Government is?

A Government is a Barrier, not much different than a wall or fence. just more advanced.

The only people that could possibly want it altered in strange ways are the ones that are outside and inhibited by the barrier so that they can destroy the ones that are protected by it or for who's benefit it was constructed.

You crack me up, you really do.

Governments are made up of people, Michael, many of whom are part of the barrier that protects the wall street money junkies from the millions of hard working people who’ve lost their life savings, their land and their 401K/pensions to those same goldman sachs, jp morgan money junkies hiding behind the barrier that protects the wall streeters and K streeters and makes you so proud.

But don’t be too sure of the strength of that wall, its built primarily of paper and plastic and very soon now it will blow down in a windstorm of indignation whipped up by those millions who’ve been cheated by them. Might take a little while longer, but try not to be standing by the wall when that happens, paper cuts can hurt a lot.

reply to post by michaelbrux

The only people that could possibly want it altered in strange ways are the ones that are outside and inhibited by the barrier so that they can destroy the ones that are protected by it or for who's benefit it was constructed.

This is precisely the position that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison took in response to the 5th United States Congress passing of the Alien and Sedition Acts

Consider what Thomas Jefferson had to say about in The Kentucky Resolution:

... the Constitution of the United States, having delegated to Congress a power to punish treason, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States, piracies, and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations, and no other crimes whatsoever; and it being true as a general principle, and one of the amendments to the Constitution having also declared, that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," therefore the act of Congress, passed on the 14th day of July, 1798, and intituled "An Act in addition to the act intituled An Act for the punishment of certain crimes against the United States," as also the act passed by them on the -- day of June, 1798, intituled "An Act to punish frauds committed on the bank of the United States," (and all their other acts which assume to create, define, or punish crimes, other than those so enumerated in the Constitution,) are altogether void, and of no force; and that the power to create, define, and punish such other crimes is reserved, and, of right, appertains solely and exclusively to the respective States, each within its own territory.

These Sheriff's seem to agree with both you, and Jefferson on this matter, although it appears you disapprove of the Sheriff's efforts at confronting those who removed the barriers of government in place in order to alter in strange ways our Constitutional Republic. You appear to approve of the long past altering in strange ways of our Constitutional Republic and instead just use sage words as empty rhetoric defending usurpers who've removed the necessary barriers of government in order to destroy those who were once protected by it.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Snake Plisskin

 

I'm probably younger and less experienced and knowledgeable than you.

Do you know what a Government is?

A Government is a Barrier, not much different than a wall or fence. just more advanced.

The only people that could possibly want it altered in strange ways are the ones that are outside and inhibited by the barrier so that they can destroy the ones that are protected by it or for who's benefit it was constructed.

You crack me up, you really do.

Governments are made up of people, Michael, many of whom are part of the barrier that protects the wall street money junkies from the millions of hard working people who’ve lost their life savings, their land and their 401K/pensions to those same goldman sachs, jp morgan money junkies hiding behind the barrier that protects the wall streeters and K streeters and makes you so proud.

But don’t be too sure of the strength of that wall, its built primarily of paper and plastic and very soon now it will blow down in a windstorm of indignation whipped up by those millions who’ve been cheated by them. Might take a little while longer, but try not to be standing by the wall when that happens, paper cuts can hurt a lot.

the Government is entirely constructed of words and numbers. People do have their place, but they are not a part of the Government, the Government is an inanimate object. The people are the beneficiary's of the Government. The Government is intended to work in a specific way...making Sheriffs believe in absurd ideas like they have Constitutional Authority is worse than trying to do word processing in a spreadsheet application...its just wrong.

The paper is just a symbol, a token, representing the words...and the US Government is immensely strong. You'd have to think we'd all forget how to read, write and count in the near future to believe its gonna fall. Or perhaps you'd have to confound our language, somehow.

As far as all the material things people have lost, my personal investigations suggest that they were involved in some shady dealings, with shady people and that the reason they lost so much. I haven't lost anything and I am subject to the same system as everyone else.

Those people that are attempting to convince Sheriffs to reevaluate or reinterpret the Constitution in a manner that will support the idea that they should abandon their posts as Sheriffs and instead act in a manner equating them with the Feds, are the same people that told people to borrow money to purchase homes that they could not afford. And the Sheriffs that listen to them, or the voice whispering in their heads, will experience the same outcome. career bankruptcy and foreclosure.

its almost as if people are incapable of learning.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I am intimately aware of the way that the Constitution has been altered in the past and I feel comfortable that I know who were the culprits. When the Constitution was altered in the past and the things you call crimes were committed, they were Constitutional...thus they weren't crimes...that's why people alter the Constitution; to make their crimes lawful activities.

the Sheriffs, I don't see that they are in any manner suitable for this job you insist they should do. they need to be getting dinner ready for the inmates at their jails, not worrying about the responsibilities of Federal Agents.

Many of you say you know the Constitution and that you know what it says, I believe I have perfect understanding of the Constitution...I could paint a picture of it and all would agree that the picture I paint is in fact an accurate description of the Constitution.

reply to post by michaelbrux


"Any five-year old child knows that if you put ten marbles into a tin can, you can only take ten marbles back out. No amount of wishful thinking, dreaming, or praying, will yield that eleventh marble from inside that can. That eleventh marble does not exist. It never did, and it never will. All discussions about the eleventh marble are the product of imagination. The eleventh marble is a fantasy.

Private central bankers issuing the public currency as interest-bearing loans operate on the belief that they can put ten marbles (dollars) into a tin can (the world) and magically get 11 marbles back out. Thus, we may conclude that the bankers are dumber than five-year old children! But unlike five-year old children, the bankers will take your home, your business, and your nation when they don't get that eleventh marble!"

(A shout out to Michael Rivero, who put together this easy to understand explantion of how we can't afford to own a home.) whatreallyhappened.com...

reply to post by michaelbrux


The Constitution has not been "altered" and I am not comfortable with even the fact that you think this Constitution has been "altered" let alone comfortable with the fact that your comfortable with the idea of the Constitution being "altered". What has been altered is the attitude we take towards the Constitution. What you are comfortable with is this radicalized view of the Constitution and the application you call "Constitutional" which is anything but.

Your empty rhetoric is nothing more than that, shallow and meaningless rhetoric that ignores the rule of law, ignores over 200 years of legal precedent and case law, and ignores the Constitution itself in order to push forth a vague and pro-tyrannical agenda. This empty rhetoric fails on too many levels. You clearly lack the ability to dazzle with brilliance, but your efforts at baffling with bull puckey is no better.

There is a rule of law, and when you find duly elected law enforcement agents on a local level doing their level best to enforce this rule of law, this is not "altering in strange ways" our Constitutional Republic, it is, in fact, public officials honoring the oath of office they took to protect the Constitutions of which grant them the authority to enforce the rule of law.

You disingenuously hope to make it appear as if it are these Sheriff's who are attempting to "alter in strange ways" our Constitutional republic, but your efforts not only lack merit, they lack flair. If you want to convince people that up is down and left is right, and right is wrong, you're going to have to find some better schtick then the one you're relying upon.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


its no wonder that so many of you live continually upon the edge of complete catastrophe...

you believe in rocks and brick and mortar, and not the underlying...fire is advanced technology to you, rocks and dirt is refinement.

and you get mad at me because you just don't get it.

Sheriffs have no Constitutional Authority...that much is clear. and if they think like you, they should be removed from office immediately.

reply to post by michaelbrux


I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am not angry with you. Calling you on your nonsense does not require anger, although I can understand why it would make you defensive. Transposing your own precarious position on the edge onto others is just an act of desperation in the face of wanting. You have no Constitutional Clause you can point to in order to support your strange ways of interpreting law, you have no case law you can point to, and you have little in the way of any authority you can point to. Indeed, over and over you hope to give yourself credibility by claiming an "in the know" perspective where you've have due to some mysterious encounters with mysterious people.

Sadly, when called on your nonsense, you pout and cry that those calling you on your crap are "angry" with you. You seem to want to present yourself as some modern day Christ figure being crucified for telling "the truth", but the most famous Christ figure had a message that was truly threatening to tyranny, not sycophantic of it as is yours.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


carry on then.

you should be quite successful in all your endeavors.

ultimately, we can rely on WHAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE to determine who knows what.

and for the record:

1. Nothing will come of this gathering of Sheriffs.
2. The US Government will continue on as always.
3. Thanks for all the money because you won't be getting it back and no one is coming to help you.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

carry on then.

you should be quite successful in all your endeavors.

ultimately, we can rely on WHAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE to determine who knows what.

and for the record:

1. Nothing will come of this gathering of Sheriffs.
2. The US Government will continue on as always.
3. Thanks for all the money because you won't be getting it back and no one is coming to help you.

edit on 14-6-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)

1. You're probably right.2. I bet someone said the same thing about Rome. 3. Wow, hope you feel better. I think this thread has told me everything I need to know about you as a member of this community.

reply to post by michaelbrux


The ability to successfully predict the future is key to enjoying a prosperous and peaceful future. That is why:

1.) The gathering of Sheriff's will benefit greatly those people correcting their ignorance of law and intending to use their new found knowledge of law and expect their Sheriff to enforce the lawful actions the People command.

2.) Once enough People have come to know the law- and it will not take many, the U.S. government will finally continue as it was always intended to do so.

3.) You can thank the fools who are actually filing tax returns under the false presumption they were liable to do so. As it is nearly half of those filing don't even pay income taxes and there is no reasonable way of knowing just how many don't even file, and rest assured that number will begin to increase radically the more people like you keep making the smug posts you make. So...

Carry on, by all means, carry on.

reply to post by GD21D


what you don't learn about me here, you can ask the Illinois State Police, Department of Corrections and FBI.

Rome was doomed to fail...not a single man that called himself Caesar was actually Caesar. Therein, lies the difference between us and them. We are real and the situation the world finds itself is real.

and as soon as a Sheriff thinks he's President, he will fail.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


the choices people make are their own.

dealing with the IRS is a pleasant experience and its easy to square things up with them.

if you somehow think your beliefs are beating to the pulse of 320 million Americans you are sadly mistaken, i'm certain.