I joined the Communist Party

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
There is a form of communism called stateless communism, which has also been reffered to as a Resource based economy!


That would be Anarcho-Commmunism.

It really isn't a version of Communism, the goal is the same for all communists.

Anarcho-Communists are the revolutionary communists, who wanted direct action as apposed to the political path of Marxism.


In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.


Free association (communism and anarchism)


Anarchism, the no-government system of socialism, has a double origin. It is an outgrowth of the two great movements of thought in the economic and the political fields which characterise the nineteenth century, and especially its second part. In common with all socialists, the anarchists hold that the private ownership of land, capital, and machinery has had its time; that it is condemned to disappear; and that all requisites for production must, and will, become the common property of society, and be managed in common by the producers of wealth. And in common with the most advanced representatives of political radicalism, they maintain that the ideal of the political organisation of society is a condition of things where the functions of government are reduced to a minimum, and the individual recovers his full liberty of initiative and action for satisfying, by means of free groups and federations—freely constituted—all the infinitely varied needs of the human being...


Anarchist Communism: Its Basis and Principles by Peter Kropotkin 1887




posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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I am convinced the OP is a troll. He hasn't said anything of substance.

He keeps repeating himself and none of his replies are longer than 2 sentences. Instead of clarifying himself, he just prolongs the discussion instead of putting it to a rest.

He is also very condescending in his replies, while trying to maintain that he wants to understand. I don't even believe he just joined communist party, he has always been a communist and just wants to raise hairs.

He took us for a long ride. So this is where I exit.


edit on 16-6-2012 by INDOMITABLE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
.

He keeps repeating himself and none of his replies are longer than 2 sentences.

He is also very condescend



to his defense---- people keep making the same semantic mistakes over and over.

he believes communism is something other than the communism some people keep talking about here.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
.

He keeps repeating himself and none of his replies are longer than 2 sentences.

He is also very condescend



to his defense---- people keep making the same semantic mistakes over and over.

he believes communism is something other than the communism some people keep talking about here.


Uh.

I feel like a salesman is dangling a juicy morsel of meat in front of my face, all the while telling me how juicy it is instead of letting me eat it.

Nearly 40 pages later he still hasn't clarified his position. Everyone is trying to understand, yet he keeps saying "no that's not communism".

What is communism?
How does it work?
What does a perfect communist society look like?

Put the baby to rest once and for all. If its not THAT communism and its something different what is it.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
Nearly 40 pages later he still hasn't clarified his position. Everyone is trying to understand, yet he keeps saying "no that's not communism".

What is communism?
How does it work?
What does a perfect communist society look like?

Put the baby to rest once and for all. If its not THAT communism and its something different what is it.

Actually the OP is asking other people who have joined the party what their experience was like because his was very negative, in regards to family, friends and his girlfriend.

Everyone that chimes in with claims of what communism is, based on the popular concept are met with a request for proof. He never offered to explain what it was.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by brukernavn

I agree with you entirely. Things need to be reworked. The people cannot own the means of production through the state. The state is always bad, no matter what. I believe that the people should own the means of production themselves, not through the state.



But then you start running afoul of the precepts against "private ownership". It become only a matter of scale - one private owner or 400 private owners. When that ownership is filtered through the state, the scale increases to include everyone (theoretically, via "democracy"), and ceases to be "private". That's why I believe that if communism is to ever be functionally implemented anywhere in the incarnation people here seem to believe in, then it will have to be radically decentralized. Only be redefining or eliminating provisions against "private ownership", and restructuring to provide maximum local autonomy while simultaneously minimizing or eliminating central authority will it ever be practical.

If you eliminate central authority altogether, however, then each and every local enclave will have to deal with each and every local enclave in the world on it's own, in it's own terms. That could get very cumbersome in short order - setting up trade agreements with a rice production enclave in China, for example, multiplied by the thousands of things the local enclave wants, but cannot produce itself. that is how merchant classes get set up to begin with, and indeed how they came about in history - they devoted their time to trade between communities, so that the workers could devote THEIR time to production rather than endless negotiation and intercommunal trading.

So then, some sort of structure is desirable, and probably necessary, in order to keep the workers free to work. There are ways to limit that power and authority, however - everyone would just have to jealously guard those safeguards against unfair seizure of power by circumventing them.

Unfair seizure of power by circumventing the safeguards, and the centralization of that seized power, is what has gotten the US into the mess it is currently in. How it applies to communist revolutions in Russia and China, for example, I can't say.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


The beauty of it is that you have a choice. If you want to be the private owner of a business, you can. Only thing is, your only employee will be you. If you know a skill, such as plumbing, you can be a private contractor and contract yourself out for jobs. If you eventually desire to expand the business, you can take on partners. Although, then you would not be the sole owner. So, under communism, one truly can solely own their own business. And, you will be paid based on what you, personally, produce. Thank you for being civil, and I do not mean that sarcastically.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by brukernavn
reply to post by nenothtu
 


The beauty of it is that you have a choice. If you want to be the private owner of a business, you can. Only thing is, your only employee will be you. If you know a skill, such as plumbing, you can be a private contractor and contract yourself out for jobs. If you eventually desire to expand the business, you can take on partners. Although, then you would not be the sole owner. So, under communism, one truly can solely own their own business. And, you will be paid based on what you, personally, produce. Thank you for being civil, and I do not mean that sarcastically.


I see.
So there will be no corporations? Each person would be considered a company.
Who would run the hospitals and the large organizations? If a hospital now has 500 employees, would they then be considered as 500 partners?
Would there be a military? What about politicians, who runs the country?
Something like this would be hard to scale, because it would be difficult to get people to cooperate. I also think there are flaws.
Would a secretary be a partner also?
How can you determine each person's contribution? Will everyone be paid equally?

Thank you for answering my questions.
edit on 16-6-2012 by INDOMITABLE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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Can someone confirm that this "10 Measures of Communism" is actually from the original text ?

If it is, how does the "proletariat" achieve all this without a ruling elite class ?

And just Who decides who gets to be the "ruling class" ?

Is this from the "Communist Manifesto" ?



The 10 Measures of Communism


Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.





edit on Jun-16-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by INDOMITABLE
 


OK. Are the hospitals in Japan owned and managed by the doctor´s? Do they have the oldest population on Earth?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
If it is, how does the "proletariat" achieve all this without a ruling elite class ?


Lol are you seriously saying we need TPTB?

I just don't even know where to begin with that one.



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by INDOMITABLE
 


Also, when you look at current nationalized militaries, how many of them are defending their own land? The countries that are invaded surely have their own national militaries fighting back, right? It is extremely obvious that in Iraq and Afghanistan, the militants are not the people arming themselves and fighting back. The people killing US troops in Afghanistan are members of the Afghani nationalized military. I stand corrected.
edit on 6/17/2012 by brukernavn because: Capitalized US



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
I am convinced the OP is a troll. He hasn't said anything of substance.

He keeps repeating himself and none of his replies are longer than 2 sentences. Instead of clarifying himself, he just prolongs the discussion instead of putting it to a rest.

He is also very condescending in his replies, while trying to maintain that he wants to understand. I don't even believe he just joined communist party, he has always been a communist and just wants to raise hairs.

He took us for a long ride. So this is where I exit.


edit on 16-6-2012 by INDOMITABLE because: (no reason given)


Asking people about their personal experiences after deciding to join a certain party is trolling? Please explain. I honestly have no jævla clue what you are referring to. Did you read my initial post at all? Please read things over before making ridiculous posts. Takk.



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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I have a bit of a side note. Look at my ancestors... The vikings made many achievements. I can explain and provide links if people are not educated on my ancestors. They even were the first Europeans to find America! If the US survives as long as my ancestors were in America, the US will have to survive until 2198. On top of all of this, my ancestors did this with no system of government. Now, what does that prove?



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Why yes this is the ten planks of Communism. Almost word for word from the Communist Manifesto. It is a fantastic read, as well, and I recommend it to anyone of any ideology. It was written entirely by Fredrick Engels But then made much, and I mean very much, more flavorful by Marx, who turned it from a stale, dry, economic declaration of ideas, into one of the most powerful works of propaganda ever written. I do not say propaganda in a negative sense either.



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 




If it is, how does the "proletariat" achieve all this without a ruling elite class ?


Marxist-Leninists believe that the proletariat, being ever set upon by the machines of the bourgeoisie, cannot set themselves to revolutionary activity, because they must be constantly striving to maintain food, water, and shelter; basically trying to just survive.



And just Who decides who gets to be the "ruling class" ?


Lenin believed there should be something called the vanguard of the proletarian. The vanguard would act as the revolutionary force in order to liberate the oppressed proletariat. The vanguard was typically seen as coming from the bourgeois intelligentsia. A learned group of wealthy men who would be sympathetic to the workingmen's struggle.



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by boot2theface
 


It is not the Ten Planks of Communism, it's the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto. It is the transition period that will lead to communism, it is not communism itself.

The ten planks are not communism. You need to read the Manifesto to understand this. This is a good example of quotes taken out of context and claimed to mean something it doesn't.

Marxists believe communism is not possible without a transition period where industry is nationalised, and the workers form a revolutionary government. During this period socialism will slowly replace capitalism, and then once the workers own all the means of production and peoples needs are met the state is dissolved and the move into communism is possible.

Communism is just a more radical version of socialism.

Not all socialists support this, Anarchists wanted direct action, not the political path of Marxism.

edit on 6/17/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by brukernavn
I have a bit of a side note. Look at my ancestors... The vikings made many achievements. I can explain and provide links if people are not educated on my ancestors. They even were the first Europeans to find America! If the US survives as long as my ancestors were in America, the US will have to survive until 2198. On top of all of this, my ancestors did this with no system of government. Now, what does that prove?


How was Erik outlawed to Greenland if there was no government to outlaw him? Without that outlawing to Greenland, Bjarni Herjolfsson would never have been blown off course en route to Greenland for the initial discovery, and Leif would never have known of Vinland to grace our shores and build Leifsbudir, and Thorfinn Karlsefni would never have led his people here after Leif, etc, etc. It all started with Erik and his people being outlawed.

What was the Althing, if not an organ of government?

What was Olaf king of?

edit on 2012/6/17 by nenothtu because: misspelling



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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Per my initial post, which I believe has been largely forgotten, my fiancé and I are back and the plan to marry is back on. This is in a large part in thanks to the posts by ANOK. I showed her some of what he has said and she has realized that I am not what she thought I was when I told her that I now support communism. Apparently, the reason that she flipped out was because of her grandfather. She is half British, and apparently her grandfather was killed by the KGB. It is much easier to resolve problems when people do not get emotional, which, I admit is not always easy.



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by brukernavn
 


Congratulations!





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