It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I joined the Communist Party

page: 19
28
<< 16  17  18    20  21  22 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by brukernavn
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


You might want to read my previous post, which directly addresses what you are saying in reference to democracy and dictators. It is true that the US is a republic. It is a republic which has democratically elected officials, hence it is also a democracy. It's legislative form of government is labeled a republic, which does not negate the fact that it is a democracy.


You must understand that when social democrats and the democrat party and people in OWS who are of statist persuasion talk about democracy, they mean democratic socialism. People who understand Constitutional Liberty always use the term Republic or Constitutional Liberty. Do not bother trying to mix me up or anyone else on this forum with semantic babbling about the word democracy.




posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by webpirate
You realise of course communism has been proven to be a failure? And the only countries
left which still even encompass the ideology are repressive, isolated, dictatorial countries which would never even allow you to post to this website.


Yes, that is true. Look at the Great Firewall of China as a perfect example. Even in some countries such as Tunisia(which once upon a time had a pro western leader) one cannot get YouTube and the Internet is censored enough that people cannot criticize the govt. China is much worse though.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Cassius666

Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by brukernavn
 

Why only join when you can go and live in a communist country? Cuba has awesome beaches and resorts and I'm sure the local communist citizens have full access to those facilities?


BTW I don't recall about hearing of any Americans drifting ashore in Cuba to better their lives. You could be the first


I can only imagine the look of confusion on the Coast Guards face if they were to pick you up.
Even funnier the look of confusion on the Cubans face if you actually made it
. Although, I would imagine that they would appreciate your raft which would quickly find its way back to the US.


edit on 11-6-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)


Actually Americans who live close enough go there for medical treatments they couldnt afford incountry.


Propaganda taken from MIchael Moore, and he sure made a lot of money off of that capitalist venture of making movies that are full of balogna.
Clinics for locals are not so pretty. Surely you know that? Can I help ya out?




posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by starchild10
reply to post by brukernavn
 


I take it you are an American. What is it in the American psyche that is so fearful of the word 'communism'? Why is it so demonised even today? It's like OMG I joined the communist party. So what? There are evils in all systems. One should go with the belief that resonates with them and try to make that system the best it can be.
edit on 12-6-2012 by starchild10 because: (no reason given)


No, this individual is in Norway and in a Norwegian communist party organization.
I can give you at least 2 big reasons not to pursue communism. The USSR in it's former incarnation as a communist country and Cuba.

Ever wonder why so many Cubans fled their homeland and settled in Miami, Florida?


Cuba as a country has been seemingly locked in time since its revolution. But through a labyrinth of rations, regulations, two currencies and four markets (peso, hard currency, agro and black), people make their way, though the going is hard. The world economic crisis plunged Cuba into an abyss not seen since the years after the Soviet Union collapsed. Before that, the island of 11 million people suffered decades of economic deterioration.


topics.nytimes.com...

Communist propagandists who still have a determined wish for communist rule worldwide paint a wonderful rosy picture of equal rights for everyone, access to great health care, free stuff and more free stuff, but the reality is there is still poverty, rationing, shortages, and a lack of freedom.
edit on 13-6-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:09 AM
link   
According to this report, even Fidel Castro said communism isn't working in Cuba...lololol


HAVANA -- Cuba's communist economic model has come in for criticism from an unlikely source: Fidel Castro.


The revolutionary leader told a visiting American journalist and a U.S.-Cuba policy expert that the island's state-dominated system is in need of change, a rare comment on domestic affairs from a man who has taken pains to steer clear of local issues since illness forced him to step down as president four years ago.


Jeffrey Goldberg, a national correspondent for The Atlantic magazine, asked Castro if Cuba's economic system was still worth exporting to other countries, and Castro replied: "The Cuban model doesn't even work for us anymore," Goldberg wrote Wednesday in a post on his Atlantic blog.


www.foxnews.com...

But still communist propagandists and those taken in by the lies still insist that if only they could do it their way, it would finally work.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:16 AM
link   
reply to post by ANOK
 





I agree. Even though what you bring up is not liberty. Capitalism is not liberty. Just because it is not government ownership it doesn't mean it's liberty. Whether it's private or government owned it is not liberty for the workers, the majority.


How many times do I have to say that Marx was full of &^ap!? Even he and Lenin both said that a ruling elite would run things while they were waiting for the State to finally "whither away". The State did not whither away in the former communist Russia, until the Berlin Wall came down. The whole thing is a bunch of Utopian ideals which have never been truly implemented in the way that idealists present. I know people today still think it can be done, but why would we want to lose our autonomy? Every communist state produced has had a dictatorship ruling it.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by brukernavn
 


Are people like you completely ignorant to the history of communism?...

Have you never heard, or red about what has happened in EVERY NATION where socialism/communism ws embraced?...

What do you expect to get from communism?...


You are the one ignorant of the history of communism, and European history in general.

You first have to understand what communism is before you can claim to know it's history.

I know you've never read any communism or socialist literature, you only know what you've read out of context on line. You come on here blustering around claiming people are clueless, I mean, oh the irony lol.

I'm not going to repeat myself as this has been discussed already in this thread, welcome to the end of it.

Have you ever read about the Spanish revolution? I doubt it. That is the only time socialism has really been tried on a nationwide scale, and it was successful. But of course you won't care about that because your mind is already too far gone to come back to reality.

Read and learn something, stop with the stupid assumptions and out right lies, please.


A BETTER LIFE FOR ALL

To distribute the common stock of goods rationing or a family wage was brought in. Given the low level of Spanish agriculture and the demands of the war it wasn't possible to jump immediately to communist distribution (i.e. free goods for all) in Aragon (or most other areas) . However there was a major increase in living standards along with a greater say for everyone and a huge range of free social services.

In the village of Graus, for example, the family (which persisted as the main social form) wage meant a 15% increase in money going into households. All services such as electricity and gas were free as well as free and hugely improved medical, educational and entertainment facilities. Overall this meant an increase in living standards of 50-100%.

There were many increases in productivity and efficiency. In several areas huge new projects were made possible by collectivisation. In Esplus there were four new piggeries producing hundreds of animals and the sheep herd increased from 600 to 2,000. In Mas de Las Mantas a huge collective bakery handled all the baking previously the exclusive task of women in the home. In Alcorisa there had been a 50% increase in cultivated land and centralisation of tailor's shops brought a 66% increase in production.

These are just a few examples where the landlord system had held back the efficient use of land while peasants and labours had faced starvation every year.

At the February meeting of the cantonal federations measures were been taken to set aside areas of land for research into better seed production in each canton. It had been suggested, for example, that virus free potatoes could be raised in the mountains of upper Aragon These type of innovations could never have been dreamed up by the landlords who relied entirely on cheap labour (without "wasting" money on machines) to keep them well heeled while the majority starved.

The Federation was also attempting to promote exchanges between collectives with richer ones distributing food and machinery to those in less well off areas. The collectives also supplied the major cities voluntarily (unlike the case in the Russian civil war(1921) where forced grain seizures by the Bolsheviks killed off any fellow feeling between rural and urban workers). They also sent spare supplies to columns at the front.


Collectives in the Spanish revolution

Oh those evil socialists...



edit on 6/13/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by brukernavn
Recently, I formally joined the Communist Party. I have lost long time friends, certain family has disowned me, even my fiancé has left me because of it. Are there any other members of this forum out there that have joined the Communist Party whom have lost their friends and family? I am interested to see how people react to such a thing. In the West, people have learnt to hate communism and instantly abandon anybody with communist leanings. I will admit, I could be wrong for my beliefs, but has anybody else out there been ostracized for believing that communism is the answer?

MVH,
Josef


Good for you commrade !!

Your mother must be sooo proud...

As another poster said, why do you not just go to live in a commie country though? "thats a serious question btw".

Cearful of your answar there bub, I'm sure TPTB are watching ATS, although personally, if Big Brother kicked down your door and carted you off, I'd not lose any sleep over it...lol
edit on 6/13/2012 by Ironclad because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:48 AM
link   
reply to post by ANOK
 


OH please! Your accusations are those of a person who simply cannot defend their position come heck or high water. I have read plenty, I have read the Communist Manifesto, materials by Lenin, the Communist Party USA webpages, various Marxist websites, commentaries about and by communists and Marxists, blogs, wikipedia, histories of the gulags, Solzhenitzyn, and last but not least, economics textbooks.

Cmon, just don't be silly about this.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ANOK
 


OH please! Your accusations are those of a person who simply cannot defend their position come heck or high water. I have read plenty, I have read the Communist Manifesto, materials by Lenin, the Communist Party USA webpages, various Marxist websites, commentaries about and by communists and Marxists, blogs, wikipedia, histories of the gulags, Solzhenitzyn, and last but not least, economics textbooks.

Cmon, just don't be silly about this.


I can defend my position no problem, thank you. Who's being silly?

Accusations, isn't that what you are doing? Anyway I wasn't replying to you was I? I haven't read what you have to say, so I have no idea what you've read. But someone who claims communism is some kind of totalitarian state system obvioulsy has not.

If you have read that stuff you are not making the connections very well. What have gulags got to do with socialism? Or are we back to the myth of the USSR being communist again?
Unless you let go of the propaganda you've been fed you will never understand what communism actually is.

Do you think the Communist Party wants what happened is Russia?


Overwhelmingly, most people’s understanding of what Communism is, comes from an extremely propagandistic presentation of the Soviet Union, generally by US right-wing sources. This would give you the idea that communism is supposed to be very authoritarian, rigidly collectivistic and anti-democratic.

This misconception is unfortunately so wide-spread that it’s not infrequent to be called a mass murderer wannabe for simply bringing it up and even though it is trivial to find out what Communism really is and how it works, this exasperatingly wrong view of it nevertheless persists in even otherwise brilliant minds.

So let me say this first: Whatever view you may have of the USSR (and there are quite a few supporters of Stalinism out there), it was not Communism.

Now, before you hasten to leave me a comment about Scotsmen and the like, it is important to know that the original thoughts of Marx and Engels were indeed the absolute opposite of Stalinism, Maoism etc. The fact that one can create a system and label it “Communism” does not make it so, anymore than North Korea is a “Democracy” or a “Republic”. Perhaps one can label it “Socialism” but this term is by itself ambiguous and does not necessarily equate to Marxism....


Was the USSR Communist?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
reply to post by hawkiye
 


Seriously, is that what you are taught in your schools about the Marshal Plan? That America (fanfare, please), the great and almighty and generous beyond description just cashed out billions of dollars and wares just because Europe would otherwise have failed?

Out of pure altruism?

Nope. Truman wanted a stronghold against the feared communist soviet union. Source (Wikipedia)


Wow I did not realize there was such an Anti-American sentiment in Germany these days. The anti-american propaganda is getting ridiculous. Is there a growing communist movement there now too? So you think Europe would have bounced right back without the Marshall plan? it was in everyone's best interest to rebuild the nations of Europe but you act like that was a bad thing.

The Communist tripe seems to really be spreading... That has been their MO through out history tell a romantic story about freedom and power to the people and then slam the bars of tyranny on them. But no this new generation says Mao Lenin and Stalin exploited communism we will to do it right. Do you geniuses realize that those guys told their people the same romantic stories about freedom and power to the people in their rise to power as you are repeating?


No, thats not Anti-American sentiment. You should consider the time and the usual suspects - America just fought a war, now there was another fear: being overrun by communists. Truman wanted that barrier so the soviets wouldn't take all of europe in one fast sweep. So they bolstered and pampered western europe to have them build that barricade on their own.

Germany was designated as the next war theatre in the cold war. We would have gotten a nice, shiney, blank sheet of molten glass here, giving a homely nice green light at night, that was the scenario. Not a very happy thought, I think you would agree.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ironclad

Originally posted by brukernavn
Recently, I formally joined the Communist Party. I have lost long time friends, certain family has disowned me, even my fiancé has left me because of it. Are there any other members of this forum out there that have joined the Communist Party whom have lost their friends and family? I am interested to see how people react to such a thing. In the West, people have learnt to hate communism and instantly abandon anybody with communist leanings. I will admit, I could be wrong for my beliefs, but has anybody else out there been ostracized for believing that communism is the answer?

MVH,
Josef


Good for you commrade !!

Your mother must be sooo proud...

As another poster said, why do you not just go to live in a commie country though? "thats a serious question btw".

Cearful of your answar there bub, I'm sure TPTB are watching ATS, although personally, if Big Brother kicked down your door and carted you off, I'd not lose any sleep over it...lol
edit on 6/13/2012 by Ironclad because: (no reason given)


There is a communist country out there? And no, I do not mean a country where the ruling party are called communists. I am talking about a country that actually practices what communism truly is.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:16 AM
link   

Many people believe that socialism means government or state ownership and control. Who can blame them when that is what the schools teach and what the media, politicians and others who oppose socialism say? Worse, some people and organizations that call themselves socialist say it, too—but not the Socialist Labor Party...

...Under socialism the workers who operate the industries and services would collectively own and democratically manage them.


SOCIALISM—ITS MEANING AND PROMISE


I hope you all can understand this simple concept, if nothing else, what people say and do is not the definition of a term they happen to call themselves.

So for example Lenin called himself a communist, but he never implemented communism at all. At one point he allowed small businesses and farms to be privately owned and ran for profit.

The reason Russia was never communist is because it was never socialist. You can't have communism without first having socialism.

Russia's economy used to be known as state-capitalism. This was written in 1922...


PEOPLE usually call the economic system now evolving in Russia ‘state capitalism’. Our economic relations, however, are so complex that they cannot be embraced in a single concept. The idea, state capitalism, moreover, does not have the same meaning in the literature of political economy that it has recently assumed in Russia. I propose to describe, therefore, the different economic forms that are now developing in our country...

...On the other side, these enterprises are not Socialist units of production in the strict sense of the word; for a Socialist economy, it goes without saying, assumes a complete and harmonious system of production and distribution.

Economic Organization in Soviet Russia

Read the whole article, Russia was not socialist. It was a mix of capitalism and nationalism.

Again I ask you to watch this vid of Chomsky explaining terms, remember he is a linguist professor, this is his expertise.




edit on 6/13/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:22 AM
link   
reply to post by interupt42
 


Come on man, Cuba does not properly apply communism, I believe if it was used correctly, it has a decent chance to provide positive results



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:33 AM
link   
I also believe it's Naive to think there is one good way to live, there is no problem having a country like the US, and countries that prefer communism or other types of ways to live.....hell our "freedom" hasn't been so free lately......



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:45 AM
link   
reply to post by ANOK
 


Oh for crying out loud. I know people from former communist countries who know first hand what it is like to live under the communist dictatorship. These people know what the real deal is, not a bunch of propaganda from people who want communism based on what they have gotten from websites or people which are promoting it. If you do not already live in a communist country do not bother trying to sell me the wares. I have already taken the word of those who have experienced it. I do not care for the bread lines we saw in Russia. Yes, I remember the stories back in the day. Communism failed because it is an unworkable solution. Communism is based on centralized programming and control and please do not try to sell me some other propagandistic nonsense about how the employees own the means of production. That is the premise sold to the masses, but we know from history that the reality is a ruling elite runs things from the top down. It is brutal, dictatorial, murderous, and steals the monies of the people while pretending to provide for basics. Yes you may have some equality, but as others have stated here, everyone is equally miserable. Yes, you may have some basic stuff provided, but you have to wait in line for it. You will be told where you can work, where you can live. I'm sorry but the lovely Utopia you are trying to sell does not exist anywhere.
The State runs things.
Currently, the State is growing to be Globalist. That is the NWO and I will not be the only person to tell you that.

And please, Chomsky is a radical leftist self described anarcho socialist and claims to be libertarian too. Libertarian and socialism are already at odds with each other and anarchism is used by communists to produce revolution. Classically, the socialists hated the communists because they thought communism was too violent. Indeed communism is the more radical of the two.
edit on 13-6-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:45 AM
link   

The word “capitalism” was coined by the socialists, often used as a pejorative, and has historically described a system of state-granted privilege and plutocracy. This is the definition to which most people subscribe, and which I would argue prevails today. A contrary definition is one that is synonymous, or nearly synonymous with “free markets”. My best guess is that this “definition” is a the result of a revisionist attempt to hijack the term “free markets”...


This is what I've been saying...


...Words have meanings! And in order to have any meaningful, relevant definition, words must be “interpreted via historical realities and implications” regardless of whether we like them...


“Free Markets” Are Not “Capitalism”

Capitalism is not the free-market you have been conditioned to believe.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ANOK
 


Oh for crying out loud.


I am not responding to anymore posts that start out like this. Sorry but I am here to share knowledge, not play a pissing match with you. When you're ready to have a mature discussion I will respond.

What ever happened to that ignore button?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:52 AM
link   
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Maybe you should read my posts on this thread. I lived in Romania, a socialist country. I think socialism and even communism might work.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 04:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by ANOK

The word “capitalism” was coined by the socialists, often used as a pejorative, and has historically described a system of state-granted privilege and plutocracy. This is the definition to which most people subscribe, and which I would argue prevails today. A contrary definition is one that is synonymous, or nearly synonymous with “free markets”. My best guess is that this “definition” is a the result of a revisionist attempt to hijack the term “free markets”...


This is what I've been saying...


...Words have meanings! And in order to have any meaningful, relevant definition, words must be “interpreted via historical realities and implications” regardless of whether we like them...


“Free Markets” Are Not “Capitalism”

Capitalism is not the free-market you have been conditioned to believe.


Who is "you"? Because I know the difference between free enterprise and monopoly capitalism. The problem is that Marxism attacks anything that is capitalistic and that includes free enterprise form, because Marxism is about State control and Free enterprise is about freely engaging in a contract with another. Marxism is aboliton of private property and free enterprise is about freedom to choose and have private property.



new topics

top topics



 
28
<< 16  17  18    20  21  22 >>

log in

join