I joined the Communist Party

Originally posted by brukernavn

I envy you so greatly for having never met a fickle woman.

wow... in fact YOU were the fickle one who decided to change out of the blue just because you wanted to without even doing your due dilligence in finding out what socialism/communism is really all about...

I personally believe in democratic communism. In my eyes, true communism. Everyone is equal and the people all hold equal power. A figure head would be elected, and decisions could be voted on, on a larger scale. The problem with the west is, the only communism ever to have preceded current political systems have been dictatorships. One man makes the decisions for everyone below and so much negativity is associated with that. The unfortunate thing is no matter how you spin it a dictatorship is bad. It doesn't work for modern populations. I truly believe communism is the answer and it will ultimately lead to the advance of the human civilization. However no one wants to be equal everyone wants to be better than the man beside him. If we all had everything we wouldn't fight, crime would be minimal or abolished. The problem is everyone is brainwashed. Equality bad, we must be superior, but if we were all equal wouldn't we be the best?

reply to post by Ilyich


In socialism/communism the only equality is that EVERYONE IS EQUALLY POOR...

That's the equality you find in socialism/communism...

The more I see brainwahsed RICH kids in western nations claim that socialism/communism is so great and they want to see it implemented, the more I understand that unfortunately another World War will occur...

But I wonder who will have the more conviction to win, the ignorant masses who fell once again for the socialist/communist lies and just think they can have everything for free, or the mayority of the people who have either experienced socialism/communism under a socialist/communist dictatorship, and the people who just want to keep their INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, including their right to own their own property, and the right to think and live freely, not to mention that the second group of people believe in WORKING HARD TO SUCCEED?...

So let's see... those who feel entitled to ahve everything for free? Or those who value their individual rights, including the right to work hard and succeed on their own accord?...

The only way the first group will win is if the first group and their masters disarm the second group...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


He *is* no way near as rich as Mark Zuckerberg. Then the things he achieved and what he has done for the society I think is quite a lot more. It could probably be argued that without Linus, Mark Zuckerberg wouldn't have been able to start facebook...

Originally posted by TheAnarchist
99.99% of communist-haters have no idea what True Communism is. That's because every communist movement has been infiltrated and destroyed by capitalist agents.

Except this person said they joined the Communist Party which is most certainly of a Marxist bent. To claim otherwise is simply untrue.

If they meant they wished to practice Communism and live in a Communal fashion, that is another thing all together.

Communism is every member of the group for the group. Anarchy is every person for themselves. Why the interest in Communism or is your avatar and name unrelated to your beliefs?

I don't think people are that bothered by people talking about the idea of Communism, but the Party is another thing. Freedom is not part of their agenda. No doubt they trick people as has happened many times in history.

By the way how does a true Communist Society deal with Anarchists, their antithesis?

If you go to literal meanings here, if an Anarchist is part of a group, they are not an Anarchists. Silly, no? Word games I mean?

Don't blame people if names connected to this idea like Stalin or Mao upset them. Their argument was much the same. If practiced fully, the group trumps all individual Rights which is very attractive to those who wish to dictate to others. They can justify the slaughter of tens of millions for the good of the group and have.

Word games aside, I've never met anyone claiming to be a Communist who was not for forcing their beliefs on others. With them in charge of course. Communism will not work because we are Human. I'll take Freedom every time.

Do you defend Stalin and Mao? I'm not sure the OP understands what the Communist Party is and thinks it's the same as the definition of Communism.

-No Religious Freedom
-No Free Press
-No Free Speech
-Ruled by an Elite Class who believe they are smarter therefore it's OK if they control everyone else and only they deserve to live in luxury and privilege.

After it works out that way over and over, denial is a bit naive. We can't change the fact we are Human.

Provided a person lives in a country as Free as we are in the US, they can live that way. Some do now. No need to topple the government that the vast majority prefer. Unless of course it is the Communist Party who do want to topple the government and replace it, even though they are a tiny minority. Others Rights mean nothing to them. Only what they want matters and yet they claim they are practicing Communism.

Certainly convoluted when the word games start.

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

He *is* no way near as rich as Mark Zuckerberg. Then the things he achieved and what he has done for the society I think is quite a lot more. It could probably be argued that without Linus, Mark Zuckerberg wouldn't have been able to start facebook...

But he is still RICH... How much money do you need to be rich?...

Let's see...

Linus Torvalds is a software engineer and hacker with a net worth of $150 million.

Link

So having a net worth of $150 MILLION is not rich enough for you?...

Originally posted by polarwarrior

Partly because your country crushes it, infiltrates it, sabotages it and they even admit to doing this, it is too much of a threat to the wealthy elite/capitalists to be given a chance. The elite hold so much power they get their way.

"Get their way"? "Crushes Cuba"? If that were so, we'd still be running casinos in Havana. Nope, that's not it. try again.

But it has more to do with the fact that most "communist" countries like Cuba aren't even communist to begin with so of course it won't work. How can a non-communist country be expected to be a good example of working communism?

Of course they're not... This is where we get back into theory and "reading" as a better assessment than practical experience on the ground...

Its not "my estimate" its the basic facts about communism you seem so opposed to that you won't even learn about. If you ever wish to deny your own ignorance there are any number of books you can read to give you an introduction.

Yeah, like that... I just needed to do more "reading" and less "ducking from the bullets" in Nicaragua, and it would have been all OK...

maybe all those communists just needed to do more "reading", too...

I wonder how willing are all these so called socialists/communists of getting rid of their computers, their internet service, their online games and portable games, etc ALL WHICH ARE PART OF THE CAPITALIST SOCIETY THAT SOCIALIMS/COMMUNISM IS AGAINST...

So go ahead and give all your pcs, portable devices, including your cell phones, Iphones, Ipads, computer games, online games, game consoles, etc, and then we will see if you are truly into socialism/communism...

Oh and most, if not all of the programs you see on television, and hear on radio, GONE under socialism/communism...

That plus are you willing to have no house under your name, meaning if the state decides that someone else should have your house under socialism/communism they can take your house away "for the good of the revolution"...

You can't have any land under your name, and the land that a few farmers are allowed to be on and plant on by the socialist/communist dictatorship you MUST plant what the STATE tells you you must, and most of what you harvest you have to give to the STATE...

When you come to understand that what I just explained above is JUST A SMALL PART of what is to live under a socialist/communist dictatorship, and when you understand what you are giving up to live under such DICTATORSHIPS, I really wonder how many people who call themselves socialist/communists would really want to live under such DICTATORSHIPS...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS... what kind of rights are you really talking about? Because in the democratic and free societies you usually do not have the right to a house, you do not have the right to health care, you do not have the right to education... you do not have the right to work.. if you are lucky you'll be able to find a work, pay for a house, and pay for a health care insurance that luckily would take care of you when you'll get sick... Again lots of luck involved there.

As for Blaine91555 post... Let's see what would we loose...

No Religious Freedom: well on paper there is religious freedom but I don't envy the Muslims right now, nowhere in the world.

No Free Press: let's see, those US election fraud things or the pictures of Iraq posted as if they were from Syria, or the pictures of India posted as being taken in Libya ring a bell? What about the american politicians exploiting the voting machines and no one doing anything?

No Free Speech: So you can speak and protest all you want, you won't change a thing.

Ruled by an Elite Class: as if we were ruled by something else right now...


So the main advantage is freedom of religion vs a stalinist regime?! you do really need to improve that argumentation of yours. Plus I didn't read that anyone on this thread defending socialist / communist ideas is defending Stalinism / Leninism...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I wonder how willing are all these so called socialists/communists of getting rid of their computers, their internet service, their online games and portable games, etc ALL WHICH ARE PART OF THE CAPITALIST SOCIETY THAT SOCIALIMS/COMMUNISM IS AGAINST...

So go ahead and give all your pcs, portable devices, including your cell phones, Iphones, Ipads, computer games, online games, game consoles, etc, and then we will see if you are truly into socialism/communism...

Oh and most, if not all of the programs you see on television, and hear on radio, GONE under socialism/communism...

That plus are you willing to have no house under your name, meaning if the state decides that someone else should have your house under socialism/communism they can take your house away "for the good of the revolution"...

You can't have any land under your name, and the land that a few farmers are allowed to be on and plant on by the socialist/communist dictatorship you MUST plant what the STATE tells you you must, and most of what you harvest you have to give to the STATE...

When you come to understand that what I just explained above is JUST A SMALL PART of what is to live under a socialist/communist dictatorship, and when you understand what you are giving up to live under such DICTATORSHIPS, I really wonder how many people who call themselves socialist/communists would really want to live under such DICTATORSHIPS...

edit on 12-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

This entire post is completely irrelevant and only shows that you have no grasp of what communism is. Also, do you mean that most electronics are manufactured in the West? News to me. May I see a link?

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Nobody says anything about living out of the goodwill or out of the work of others.

The main idea, I think, is that the society should help (all) his members to be able as useful as possible to the society. That is what socialism or communism is to me in a nutshell.

But that is EXACTLY where one starts relying on the goodwill of others - expecting "society" to do what he ought to do for himself.

The point being that right now, the only thing left out of the american dream is the dream itself. You are promised that if you try hard you'll succeed. If you don't is that you didn't try hard enough, but the reality being that it is impossible to succeed unless you steal, you exploit other aka steal legally. No way for a guy, no matter how well prepared he is to make enough to achieve real freedom, just enough to survive if lucky.

I suppose that all depends on how the individual defines "success". I've lived the American dream and met my quota of success, but I don't measure success by greed as most appear to be doing. I didn't have to steal to do it. Now, how exactly would bare survival as you mention here under capitalism differ from the bare survival communism promises? I.e. as one poster mentioned above, "no overages in production that would qualify as 'profit' "?

I'm guessing that we may be defining "freedom" differently - mine isn't tied to what I have or what I want to have.

All the stuff on Romania and on Ceausescu has to do with the fact that objectively the life standard of Romania 30 years ago, was far superior of that of Spain today: no jobless people, enough to afford one month a year of holidays in a hotel, no fear that you won't have food, free education including college, etc. It is also true that the price was that there was no free speech, not many options for foods, only one or two car models, limited clothes models available, nearly impossible to get out of the country, etc. But still... if you look at how many ppl can't afford that stuff right now in Spain, let alone Romania, the difference was more a subjective one than a real one.

No offense intended, but I'll take the freedom to speak my mind and move around as I choose over the freedom to spend a month out of the year in a hotel. That really sounds more like a sop, an appeal to greed, than "freedom" to me.

So this so called freedom that we all enjoy right now, equals to enslavement.

Not to me, but in all honesty it does appear that we are defining "freedom" differently.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Man... take it easy! No one here is talking about dictatorship!

As for the loss of private property... if I'd be provided by all I need in order to perform I'd have no problem in giving up the rest of my stuff... Won't you give up your Mercedes if you'd be sure that the future of your children would be safe and they will live happy?!

Can't you really see that what capitalism is really about is exploiting the selfishness of the people?

And about Linus... you missed the point: the money you have is not related with what you give to the society! Which is the core of the Marxim, really. Which is what all this all crisis is about.

Will we see a "communism" global regime? I think it's quite possible, but I'm quite sure that it won't be anywhere near the communism I'd dream for my children. Would I fight for it or against it? Against it, you can bet, because it'd be an even worst form of enslavement than the current one.

But a system where people would really help each other and create synergy and work for the good of the society, which again I think is the core idea of communism, if we would work together, that might be also achievable!

It's not fair that if you are unlucky the society doesn't give you any chance: no education, no health, no job, no nothing.

I don't seem to figure out that communism equates to dictatorship not you seem to understand that being born in poverty equates to no future for you nor your children, despite of your potential. You may think that after all that is bad luck for you... but I tell you that is bad luck for the whole society! Just imagine the next Fleming being born in a poor family and not getting access to a proper education!

Like its been stated earlier in this thread, as long as it is a voluntary communist system then there should be no problems (ethically).

See, the beauty of a voluntary communist society is that the RIGHT to enter and exit at anytime is a check and balance in itself on a system that is easily corrupted.

Then again when the system starts to become corrupted, the right to come or go gets corrupted as well.

Originally posted by brukernavn
Recently, I formally joined the Communist Party. I have lost long time friends, certain family has disowned me, even my fiancé has left me because of it. Are there any other members of this forum out there that have joined the Communist Party whom have lost their friends and family? I am interested to see how people react to such a thing. In the West, people have learnt to hate communism and instantly abandon anybody with communist leanings. I will admit, I could be wrong for my beliefs, but has anybody else out there been ostracized for believing that communism is the answer?

MVH,
Josef

I wouldn't know, I've never been ostracized for anything, much less joining the communist party. So tell me, what does the communist party believe in that is worth supporting? I am honestly asking this.

Originally posted by Torbu

Plus, do you really think that Facebook is such a good thing for the society as a whole? Does it really make us better, even help us communicate on some new ways?!

Ah, therein lies the rub! Initially the comment is made that "The American dream is dead, and an individual can't make it good under Capitalism", then, when presented with an example, the argument shifts to "the benefit to society as a whole" and shifts away from the previous statement that the individual can't make it under capitalism.

I don't like Facebook personally, but "society as a whole" does seem to view it as a benefit - otherwise, it would not have become popular, and Zuckerburg would right now be flipping burgers with the unimaginative college grads.

Originally posted by brukernavn

Reason why i don't believe the OP is because he said his fiance left him/her makes no sense. so he/she had no idea about your political views, no way.

I envy you so greatly for having never met a fickle woman.

Don't take that so hard - I don't think I've ever been involved with one that WASN'T fickle. You should instead count your blessings that you weren't yet married to her when you discovered her fickleness!

Originally posted by Torbu

INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS... what kind of rights are you really talking about? Because in the democratic and free societies you usually do not have the right to a house, you do not have the right to health care, you do not have the right to education... you do not have the right to work.. if you are lucky you'll be able to find a work, pay for a house, and pay for a health care insurance that luckily would take care of you when you'll get sick... Again lots of luck involved there.

The right to Free speech... I never said that having a house is a right, but haivng PRIVATE PROPERTY is, and a house is private property, just like land is...

Having the right to private property doens't mean you ahve a right to have it for free... PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS means that as long as you PAID for it, IT IS YOURS...

Only naive socialists/communists believe they should have a FREE house, FREE healthcare...

Originally posted by Torbu
As for Blaine91555 post... Let's see what would we loose...

No Religious Freedom: well on paper there is religious freedom but I don't envy the Muslims right now, nowhere in the world.

really?... so all mosques in the U.S. have been demolished and no Muslim is allowed to practice his/her religion?... REALLY?...

There is a BIG difference with a few people going after non-radical Muslims just because of their hatred, and claiming Muslims don't have a right to religious freedom...

You just showed AGAIN how socialists/communists LOVE TO LIE AND EXAGERATE...

Originally posted by Torbu
No Free Press: let's see, those US election fraud things or the pictures of Iraq posted as if they were from Syria, or the pictures of India posted as being taken in Libya ring a bell? What about the american politicians exploiting the voting machines and no one doing anything?

RUMOURS, RUMOURS don't make facts... You do know that there are RUMOURS of Elvis still being alive today right?... Does it make it a FACT that he is alive?...

Originally posted by Torbu
No Free Speech: So you can speak and protest all you want, you won't change a thing.

Actually you are wrong yet again, for example there are states where the Gold and Silver standard is being discussed as a viable way to get off from under the dictatorship of the Feds...

While i do know for a fact that SLOWLY the Republic of the United States is being transformed into a SOCIALIST/FASCIST state, it is because of SOCIALIST laws and bills that this nationis becoming more and more a dictatorship... It is happening BECAUSE socialist ideas have been slowly introduced and implemented in the Republic of the United States...

Under socialism/communism, there must be a central bank, and the Federal Reserve is a CENTRAL BANK owned by a few socialist/fascist banker elites...

Perhaps you don't know who implemented the Feds/Federal Reserve, but it was PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS who did it. they also funded the IRS and all the taxes as they exist now, and implemented legislation meant to restrict small businesses in favor for large corporations, when it was supposed to be the opposite...

The Republic of the United States and the whole world are being converted into dictatorships because of SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST ideas...not because of "capitalism"...

Originally posted by Torbu

INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS... what kind of rights are you really talking about? Because in the democratic and free societies you usually do not have the right to a house, you do not have the right to health care, you do not have the right to education... you do not have the right to work.. if you are lucky you'll be able to find a work, pay for a house, and pay for a health care insurance that luckily would take care of you when you'll get sick... Again lots of luck involved there.

There are a couple of problems with that connection - you start out with "individual freedom", then move on to "democratic societies", as if they provide individual freedom. they do not. Democracy is by definition the antithesis of INDIVIDUAL freedom. It is the mob telling the individual what he can and can't do, which is pretty highly destructive of his freedom to even choose a course for himself.

You can't use democracy as an invalidation of the validity of individual freedoms, because by definition democracy destroys individual freedoms to a greater or lesser extent, and it NEVER enhances them.

Anyone who suggests that communism can't work based on past 'attempts' is either entirely misinformed on the nature of communism or being intentionally obtuse and misleading. It has never been tried. When the Utopian society comes, it will be communist. That much is clear.