I joined the Communist Party

You realise of course communism has been proven to be a failure? And the only countries
left which still even encompass the ideology are repressive, isolated, dictatorial countries which would never even allow you to post to this website.

Originally posted by webpirate
You realise of course communism has been proven to be a failure? And the only countries
left which still even encompass the ideology are repressive, isolated, dictatorial countries which would never even allow you to post to this website.

and you do realize that part of his argument is that those countries aren't/weren't communism? if you have read his posts you will see that his view of true communism is different than your view of communism (which he would say is anti-communist propaganda seen thru a western filter im guessing. its kind of like communists talking smack about capitalists and capitalists telling commies that their definition of capitalist is wrong. each side sees has a different idea of what the terms mean. but from what i gather in this discussion is that the "true communists" have read their books by marx and trotsky etc. and the capitalists haven't and the communists are saying that if you read what marx is saying your definition of communism or socialism would be more educated and less ignorant. i could be wrong. )

im not trying to take sides here but im simply saying if you read what has been posted already (and i know its a lot to do) your question here woudlnt be asked because it has already been taken care of. no offense to you or anyone just saying. i respect everyones views so as long as they don't hurt anyone.

reply to post by krossfyter


Don't bother, most people aren't open to anything. Communism is snarl term in the U.S. one uses to describe anything they don't like. Heck, most Americans think Food Stamps are Socialist.

Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by krossfyter

 

Don't bother, most people aren't open to anything. Communism is snarl term in the U.S. one uses to describe anything they don't like. Heck, most Americans think Food Stamps are Socialist.

i understand and thats unfortunate. lets hope for progress in terms of shattering old myths. im completely open minded (i hope!) and im an american--- a texican to be more specific (thats texan with mexican ancestry). but i hear what you are saying. if people just open their minds and let go of ancient archaic stereotypes and realize that propaganda goes both ways we could hopefully be less ignorant.

listen to your fellow human beings. we live on this planet/world together lets make the best of it. its obvious we all have different ways of viewing how the world is. we are a diverse bunch as it should be. but that doesnt mean that respect and common courtesy should be thrown out the window. only ignorant a holes are mean to other people.

Communist countries do not exist, it is an utopia. And if one likes socialism, Northern Europe is a good example.

Why did you join the Communist Party. You may share the communistic beliefs, but what is the reason to join the party? Even in Russia the Communist Party is a joke, is part of the system and meant to (mis)lead the people who have some nostalgia towards USSR.

Also you know that in the States most people has unconditioned reflex of hate when they hear "communism" and you cannot even try to explain something. Long years of propaganda worked well.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

Our values, our priorities and our whole sense of sanity are screwed up in my own opinion.

All true, but that's "civilization" for ya!

Which is precisely why I have to say "yes", Madonna HAS added 350 million dollars worth of value to your civilization. It's the sort of thing your civilization values, or she'd have never made it.

Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by brukernavn

 

Why only join when you can go and live in a communist country? Cuba has awesome beaches and resorts and I'm sure the local communist citizens have full access to those facilities?

BTW I don't recall about hearing of any Americans drifting ashore in Cuba to better their lives. You could be the first

I can only imagine the look of confusion on the Coast Guards face if they were to pick you up.

Even funnier the look of confusion on the Cubans face if you actually made it

. Although, I would imagine that they would appreciate your raft which would quickly find its way back to the US.

edit on 11-6-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

Actually Americans who live close enough go there for medical treatments they couldnt afford incountry.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by hawkiye

Why don't one of you guys give us a more detailed break down of how you define "true communism" and how it works? I keep hearing its true freedom but I have yet to see how it is structured and how it would be implemented in a nation.

edit on 12-6-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

I'd also like to see an example of where this mythical "true communism" has EVER worked in the real world. So far, all I see is negative examples of them claiming that this or that communist state isn't "true communism"... so tell us, where IS "true communism"? Where has it been implemented, and where has it worked?

If we use the description from the Communist Manifesto, there are no real world examples of communism. Though there are no examples of communism, it would be silly to use that as proof that communism will not work. There is a reason that the US has to invest such enormous effort into suppressing communism worldwide.

The manifesto describes an economic revolution, in which laborers acquire the means of production and are then able to "throw off their yokes" so to speak. Those people who formerly acquired and maintained wealth simply by controlling the means of production would be forced to become contributing members of society again (rather than living on the fruits of other people's labor).

Marx described that an economy could not simply "decide" to be communist; rather it is comparable to an evolution of the economic model from feudalism to capitalism to communism. Russia and China skipped capitalism and went straight from feudalism to "communism." I would say those were more like feudalism 2.0; the laborers did not acquire the means of production, nor did the average person experience the economic freedoms embodied by capitalism until recently.

According to this line of thought, capitalism has two possible outcomes: "Economic Darwinism" or "Communism." This is because capitalism virtually guarantees that the minority of people will become very wealthy at the expense of the majority. Thus those who get exploited will either suck it up forever (economic darwinism), or they will revolt (communism).

Socialization is one way that a capitalist economy transitions to a communist economy, and the US is one of the most socialized countries in the world. Socialization scares those who contribute nothing to the economy yet control the means of production (the "1%"); they rely on the laborers' economic insecurity in order to exploit them, and socialization undermines that by providing laborers with security. Social security, retirement, medicare, public education, etc. are all forms of socialism and indicative of a shift towards communism.

So maybe a good example of a communist revolution in the Marxist sense is happening right here in the U.S. We have a situation where a small group of people control pretty much every aspect of production. They control the money supply, the factories, the media and even legislation and justice. Movements that resist this influence and seek to return power to the people are essentially communist in a Marxist sense.

Communism as a idea is fine but in practice always fail just like capitalism

When a rich man joins the communist party I will be impressed. Communism rises from the poor, oppressed citizens as a survival tactic. Noble intentions aside, communism corrupts quickly.

Originally posted by Hinken
Communism as a idea is fine but in practice always fail just like capitalism

i guess its because like someone else said "we are not ready for it" ?


we are too stuck on the 1% owning the means of production and us being slaves to them here in the U.S.???

Originally posted by earthdude
When a rich man joins the communist party I will be impressed. Communism rises from the poor, oppressed citizens as a survival tactic. Noble intentions aside, communism corrupts quickly.

and the saying goes "its not guns that kill people its people that kill people"


my understanding from this thread is that communism much like capitalism is a tool. its the people behind it that are corrupt.

i hope im on the money on that one. correct me if im wrong.

Originally posted by Cassius666

Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by brukernavn

 

Why only join when you can go and live in a communist country? Cuba has awesome beaches and resorts and I'm sure the local communist citizens have full access to those facilities?

BTW I don't recall about hearing of any Americans drifting ashore in Cuba to better their lives. You could be the first

I can only imagine the look of confusion on the Coast Guards face if they were to pick you up.

Even funnier the look of confusion on the Cubans face if you actually made it

. Although, I would imagine that they would appreciate your raft which would quickly find its way back to the US.

edit on 11-6-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

Actually Americans who live close enough go there for medical treatments they couldnt afford incountry.

Do they get free treatment and do they stay there after treatment in paradise?

I will agree with you that the medical treatment in the US is a joke and is run by corporations, but I can assure you that if you are a Cuban citizen you are not treated like the foreigner$. Good luck in even getting advil or aspirins as a Cuban resident when you get headaches.

reply to post by brukernavn


I take it you are an American. What is it in the American psyche that is so fearful of the word 'communism'? Why is it so demonised even today? It's like OMG I joined the communist party. So what? There are evils in all systems. One should go with the belief that resonates with them and try to make that system the best it can be.

reply to post by Hinken


Can you give an example of these failures of communism?

And don't go listing dictatorships that paraded under the banner of communism.

Originally posted by Cassius666
Actually Americans who live close enough go there for medical treatments they couldnt afford incountry.

True. Cuban doctors are in high demand worldwide; they can essentially go wherever they want, but many of them stay in Cuba... Cubans also developed permaculture and the living machine, which has been patented and locked away in a deep dark dungeon at the Smithsonian Institute.

Originally posted by interupt42
Good luck in even getting advil or aspirins as a Cuban resident when you get headaches.

Why do you need pharmaceuticals for a headache? I'm pretty sure they have botanical remedies, and Cuba has community gardens...

Capitalism is a system that rewards psychopathic behavior. Psychopaths (people who can't feel human emotion) only make up about 1 in every 100 people, but at the top of the corporate ladder this figure becomes 1 in 4. Capitalism rewards environmental destruction. It leads to exploitation of the working class and empowers a ruling elite or oligarchy, who as most ATSers would know have been wrecking havoc in the world. Capitalism claims to be efficient but look at how much of a product you buy goes towards the cost of raw materials, the wages of people who made and designed it then compare that to the percentage which goes to say marketing for example.

We could talk all day about the problems of capitalism, these problems are fundamental to it, we have tried fixing them to no avail so its time to try a different approach. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Its time we try something else, something which has not been tried yet like communism.

reply to post by starchild10


How did you come to the conclusion that I am American? I am Norwegian. I have lived in the US and Australia before, but that is a story for another time.

Although I may not agree with all of your views I applaud you on coming out on what seems to be a more right wing sided site. What annoys me is how a few others that have mocked you for the choice you have made about Communism when they are living in a country where Capitalism has quite clearly got out of hand and left people in similar conditions of the Communist countries they are mocking!