China will Decimate the US Naval Fleet

Originally posted by Trajan
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Way to rebuke your own logic.
You didn't even do it right. Better luck next time my friend.

Yea, conditioned... Because I believe the sh1t that Obama and Clinton spout. I have said before and I will say again.
I hold nothing against the average Joe who works in the States except the fact he supports a corrupted government that has shown time and time again to be the worlds biggest hypocrites and scum.
When I say 'Americans' (and so does most people) I am referring to your bloody government. If the US just kept it's nose out of other nations sh1te I wouldn't care about you but the fact is that the US acts as the worlds policeman and decides to murder, rape and pillage whoever it likes but condems a country that even says something against it. And you guys wonder why the world doesn't like you.

Let me get one thing straight. I am not american, i am English. Ok, now lets carry on. Don't you realise that most governments are corrupt? Remember, we, the english went into the iraq war that was ilegal. All governments are corrupt.

Also, all governments want their people to be patriotic for their country. This lets them get away with almost anything, like ilegal wars, and bankers bringing countries down, why the people moan, but do nothing about it!

We totally rely on these people, like a kid relies on his parents. Ten years ago, if someone said the TSA would be doing what they are doing, you would have been laughed at, and told that would never happen. When it does happen people shrug it off and say "oh, its for national security"

Governments can get away with almost everything because people have been brainwahed from a young age to be more concerned about their fav football team, or what the celebs are up too. There are millions of distractions that move people away from the real issues.

Look on this thread as an example. We have people saying "let them try and attack us" They just don't us it. Its not "us" Its the governments. They might speak for them, but they certainly dont speak for me.

reply to post by Jay-morris


That was a very intelligent post.
I hate being called a "Great Power" being an American. That is a propaganda manipulation of the people. When our leaders call us a "great power", they want soldiers (our children) to go fight and die for wars they themselves would never fight. I would much rather be called a "Little Power". There is too much money in war for the Oligarchs. However, being cowards, they will never launch a war against another major power where there could be serious repercussions against themselves. Far better to "Bring Democracy" to small nations for many years, to maximize money extraction.
Orwell was right.

reply to post by Matt1951


I have to disagree. I think if you look at countries as businesses, it would make more sense taking out your biggest competitors. Yes, taking out the small mom and pop stores will still turn a profit, but big fish feed more people for longer.

reply to post by DevilJonah


You make a good point.

en.wikipedia.org...
Alexis de Toqueville 1840
""No protracted war can fail to endanger the freedom of a democratic country. Not indeed that after every victory it is to be apprehended that the victorious generals will possess themselves by force of the supreme power, after the manner of Sulla and Caesar; the danger is of another kind. War does not always give over democratic communities to military government, but it must invariably and immeasurably increase the powers of civil government; it must almost compulsorily concentrate the direction of all men and the management of all things in the hands of the administration. If it does not lead to despotism by sudden violence, it prepares men for it more gently by their habits. All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and the shortest means to accomplish it. This is the first axiom of the science."

en.wikipedia.org...
George Orwell
"Life in the Oceanian province of Airstrip One is a world of perpetual war, pervasive government surveillance, and incessant public mind control"

"the true meanings of the slogans WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"

Orwellian
en.wikipedia.org...
""Orwellian" describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson" — a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments. "
"The adjective Orwellian refers to these behaviours of The Party, especially when the Party is the State:

Invasion of personal privacy, either directly physically or indirectly by surveillance.
State control of its citizens' daily life, as in a "Big Brother" society.
Official encouragement of policies contributing to the socio-economic disintegration of the family.
The adoration of state leaders and their Party.
The encouragement of "doublethink", whereby the population must learn to embrace inconsistent concepts without dissent, e.g. giving up liberty for freedom. Similar terms used, are "doublespeak", and "newspeak".
The revision of history in the favour of the State's interpretation of it.
A (generally) dystopian future.
The use of euphemism to describe an agency, program or other concept, especially when the name denotes the opposite of what is actually occurring. E.g. a department that wages war is called the "Ministry of Peace" or "Ministry of Defence".

reply to post by DevilJonah

Article #2 - How China will Destroy a US Fleet

The prevention of this rather simple "Hulk Smash" tactic is to simply send in waves of stealth bombers and drones to take out the conventional missile launch sites, prior to being in range of the fleet.

I also didn't see anything in there about several other countermeasures that are specifically meant for coping with that threat...oh well.

It's all academic anyhow, as any war between the US and China would mean the end of everything, even if it didn't go nuclear. With the world's largest consumer and the world's largest producer at war, the global economy would tank so far in the toilet, it's nearly an apocalypse.

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I am talking about subs getting close enough to an Carrier to take photos of it's propellers! Australia did it! Little Aussie with it's puny budget can get a sub in close enough to kill a Carrier.

Yes, I am aware of the other tech. I am reminded of US and the new British air warfare Destroys that can track thousands of hostile targets. That is great guys, well done, now, how many can you kill.

In the Korean War, the Chinese would do some simple math. (Machine gun rate of fire * time to run to machine gun) + 1. Machine gun is over run.

How many missiles traveling twice the speed of sound can you intercept before one gets through and blows your bobby socks off. This is the way China thinks and this is how Carriers can be killed. Even energy weapons need to line up and fire. There is always a number over which the target is dead.

Think it through. Simultaneous sub-surface, Surface skimming, air to sea and Ballistic attacks can and will overwhelm any defense. That is why the US are the only ones with huge numbers of Carrier groups. All that I have said can be done with missiles currently deployed.

Now, let's have a look at the Chinese Air Force!

P

Here is a bit of news for you. About 18 Months prior to the latest incident of either the Chinese or the Aussie Subs popping up in a Carrier Task Force...something even MORE UNTHINKABLE OCCURRED! A U.S. Attack Sub was Photoed from Google Earth with a clear picture of the Attack Subs Prop! The design of a Sub prop is something that is just NOT ALLOWED TO HAPPEN because if you can see how it is designed...no matter how quiet...and U.S. Subs are the Quietest in the World...you can develop from the props photo a Computerized Composition of Water Frequency Movement from a Kinetic Aspect....thus track the sub even if it make almost NO SOUND.

Now why were all three of these events allowed to happen? Obviously the U.S. Space Command knows when every Satellite in Space will pass over a secret facility and steps would be taken to cover the prop.

Also...every U.S. Carrier Group has not only a lot of surface ships but to protect a Multi-Billion Dollar Investment...one Carrier group and all ships and subs attached easily goes over the $100 Billion Mark....has a Submarine Force attached to it not to mention a Satellite MAGNETOMETER DETECTION SYSTEM which follows each Carrier Group as these types of Satellites are positioned in GEOSYNCHRONOUS ORBITS which cover every grid of the Globe.

So the reality there is that it would be almost impossible to even get a Metal Surfboard....because this is at what level the sensitivity of the systems are...snuck into a U.S. Carrier Task Force Grouping. So why was this and two events at that...allowed?

Answer....NAVAL MONETARY APPROPRIATIONS FOR A THREAT THAT DOES NOT EXIST! First of all...it has been widely known that the picture taken by Google Earth of a USN. Attack Sub Prop was a prop that was being replaced. Secondly...since when I say widely known...that was only because it wasn't supposed to be widely known and was done to throw off some countries but it started a S#!% STORM in Congress and the truth came out.

As far as for the Aussies and Chinese getting in close...that was to perpetuate the LIE that the U.S. Navy needed more Ships...more Equipment....THE SKY WAS FALLING! It was done because once the FEL system is in place...the USN. will only need 8 Carriers...TOPS! This makes many people who are in the Ship Building Business VERY SCARED and let me say this...there is no way...no how...no chance...that another Nations Sub pops up in the Middle of a U.S. Carrier Group Surface ship opperational area....with all the U.S. Attack Subs around and easy detection from space of any non-U.S. Ship or Sub...UNLESS THE U.S. NAVY WANTED IT TO HAPPEN! THAT....my friends is a CONSPIRACY! Split Infinity

reply to post by Matt1951


Are your eyes brown?
J20? Look at the airframe and the circa 1970 cans on the back of the plane.An Eagle victim if I ever saw one.The T90? the retread AK they just show cased? Kid your opinion of military equipment sucks.Do you even have an MOS?
As to space,that's all secret.You know about what has been made 20 years ago.The NRO just turned over it's old stuff to NASA and it's better than the "State of the art " Hubble.Many trillions of dollars have disappeared into black projects.The FEL is an open subject now.That alone will cover global ADA. The US is making a transition to robot forces.The next logical step in warfare.I hate it myself as it will be a dangerous human disconnection.But the troops aren't there any more and they want an objective based force rather than a larger invasion force.


But if someone say.......sinks a carrier or hits us with an EMP or WMD,well thats war to us,with congress and everything and we will begin manufacturing a whole new force.

reply to post by Jay-morris


I know that governments are corrupt better than most. I also know the tricks they use to get people into fighting their wars. But who is to say that you yourself aren't conditioned into opposing them? (I am not saying you are) How can you be sure you aren't just one of 'those nuts' the government employs to misinform the public and make everyone look like a nutter?

You have also fallen into a trap by callig yourself 'English' (it works for all nationalities). You are agreeing to be pu in a box and labelled. (he's white, he is black, he's catholic, he's Protestant, he is Irish, he is English etc.) I see your point but although you claim to not support the corrupt governments the fact stands that you do. When you pay taxes, when you buy stuff (Value Added Tax) or pay road tax and insurance. Unless you are a freeman on the land the fact remains that you do support the corruption. Maybe not politically but economically.

Evidently the cold war with China is now engaged we're reopening some big ones,Subic Bay,Clark AFB(they are going to be so happy with us coming back),possibly Cam Rahn bay in Viet Nam, U- Tapoa in Thailand and Sihanoukville in Cambodia. And the bases that have pi##ed off a few in Australia and even possible Palau.They're playing the standard SAC style deployment and putting 60% of the US fleet in the area.


Still no word on those Chinese naval fight trials at sea.

Originally posted by Trajan
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I know that governments are corrupt better than most. I also know the tricks they use to get people into fighting their wars. But who is to say that you yourself aren't conditioned into opposing them? (I am not saying you are) How can you be sure you aren't just one of 'those nuts' the government employs to misinform the public and make everyone look like a nutter?

You have also fallen into a trap by callig yourself 'English' (it works for all nationalities). You are agreeing to be pu in a box and labelled. (he's white, he is black, he's catholic, he's Protestant, he is Irish, he is English etc.) I see your point but although you claim to not support the corrupt governments the fact stands that you do. When you pay taxes, when you buy stuff (Value Added Tax) or pay road tax and insurance. Unless you are a freeman on the land the fact remains that you do support the corruption. Maybe not politically but economically.

There is nothing wrong with sayibg i am English, because
i am. I have not once said that you should not say your
english, chinese, whatever. My problem is people who look
at their country everything, basically because they have been
conditioned that way.

And no, im not an agent Im just someone who sees things
the way they are. I want peace on this planet, i want my daughter
to grow up in a decent world, but i know i am dreaming. I guess
i get annoyed because even reading this thread, you realise people
just dont get it, and will most prob get it when its too late.

I mean, there are millions of people dying because of starvation,
poverty, disease etc but governments spend billions a year on
militery weapons and pointless wars. Imagine if we put all that
money into making this world a better place. Imagine the technical
advances we could have made if we worked ss a planet instead of
all this tribal rubbish.

Yes i pay taxes and other stuff, but if you want to live, then you have too.
Thats just the way it is, we are all slaves to this system.

But if i open the eyes and minds of people, then at least I'm
doing something.

reply to post by biggilo

Quarters within the German Regime have indeed spoke of the "WHAT IF" Scenario.. It's been in the news keep up


P.s The What If Scenario if you need it spelling out... Greece goes rogue/ Spains QE fails/ Portugal and Italy then follow... bye, bye Euro. It is a possibility and not a fairy tale.

reply to post by Matt1951


I think its pretty understandable that both of our militaries are going in different directions. Especially, when it comes to the navy or air force. The numbers of our Navy and Air force is on a whole different level then China's. We just have a much larger force. So, China has no choice but to try and grow by the numbers in aircrafts and ships.

I think the reason why our Air force is shrinking is because we just don't need as much fighter jets as we did in the past. Wars are not like what they use to be in the past. They will never be fought the same again. So a lot of old timers and people talking about past wars is pretty irrelevant. The world is much to different now.

The US is focusing on improving there missiles and such. I believe if we did actually go to war. People all over the world will see some new technology from us. We can win wars in many ways and I still think its laughable that people are still talking about this topic.

To tell you the truth, people need to stop caring about whose country is better and whose is stronger and just travel more. I've been to many countries and trust me when I say it is great knowledge to meet people from other cultures.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Matt1951

 

Are your eyes brown?

J20? Look at the airframe and the circa 1970 cans on the back of the plane.An Eagle victim if I ever saw one.The T90? the retread AK they just show cased? Kid your opinion of military equipment sucks.Do you even have an MOS?
As to space,that's all secret.You know about what has been made 20 years ago.The NRO just turned over it's old stuff to NASA and it's better than the "State of the art " Hubble.Many trillions of dollars have disappeared into black projects.The FEL is an open subject now.That alone will cover global ADA. The US is making a transition to robot forces.The next logical step in warfare.I hate it myself as it will be a dangerous human disconnection.But the troops aren't there any more and they want an objective based force rather than a larger invasion force.


But if someone say.......sinks a carrier or hits us with an EMP or WMD,well thats war to us,with congress and everything and we will begin manufacturing a whole new force.

Well, I have brown eyes, but I am a Caucasian of British/German/Dutch/Irish descent. Everything I am reading, the J20 is for real and according to the latest US govt estimate, is ready for combat in 2018. With the vast number of Chinese engineering graduates, they will be coming up with some impressive hardware/software.

Originally posted by Matt1951
reply to post by Binder

 

You should consider fact checking your opinions...

China has a more active space program than the US

.
China's official space budget is 1/10th that of NASA.

What the U.S. military spends separately through AFSPC, SPAWAR and various DARPA programs is classified but the amount is often inferred to be considerably more than the acknowledged civilian budget.

China is going to the moon.

Good news for anyone with an interest in human space exploration however NASA's hugely successful Apollo went to the moon 40 years ago.

I wish the China National Space Administration good luck.

China will now have its J20 super fighter deployed in 2018, well before the US ever fields the inferior JSF.

That is just silly.

The J20 is currently a prototype technology demonstrator, not a super fighter

Chinese industry is still struggling to build reliable copies of Russian engine designs (who are years away from operational deployment of the Sukhoi PAK FA themselves), operational deployment of anything resembling an indigenous 5th generation aircraft by the PLAAF in 2018 is a pipedream.

The F-22, which is the super fighter benchmark, reached its Initial Operational Capability 7 years ago.

F-35 inferior to the J20? How did you reach that conclusion? Both the J20 and F-35 performance capabilities are classified however there are currently over 60 flightworthy production F-35's versus 2 J20 prototypes using engines designed for an SU-27.

Shouldn't you at least wait until China actually manages to build a complete J20 prototype (with the correct engines) and fly it before declaring it superior to an established program?

reply to post by Matt1951


Intellect is no replacement for creativity or independent thought.China has cobbled together an F22/35 Frankenstine that isn't aerodynamically as capable of operating anywhere near a generation 6 aircraft.They couldn't figure out the thrust vectoring.Not only that we are moving into the era of drones, no pilots to black out from hypermaneuvreability.That is why video games were created.
During the cold war the stats on all the Russian equipment were considerably elevated to justify funds.When you actually see one of those vehicles,you see they are absolute mass produced garbage.The world found that out ,as did Russia when we absolutely stomped the exports into the dirt when EVERYONE thought we would be hurt in Gulf War 1.You should have read it,all the "soft Americans and how the 4th largest army in the world would kill most of us,it was hilarious,Just like I read on this board currently.Examine the battle of 73 Easting to see what I mean about that.
We don't even know what sort of nightmares there are in DARPA accept what they tell us about. Look at the FEL and imagine worse,yes we do have more dangerous weapons than nuclear,probably resting smack dap in the middle of "you do NOT want to know" territory.
Not to mention in hand to hand size does matter,we eat a lot of beef that is a hell of an edge.

Interesting Artical from reuters
South China Sea, US redeployment
Just and artical, personally I don't like the fact that you have so mutch firepower entering the region.
reminds me of the prelued of WW1 with massive arms build up. if the world ecconomy collapses these
flash points will ignight, as their is a scrambel to lock down the energy supplies for the next century.

In all of this we should not forget india, who now have nuclear capable missile which can hit northern
china. this is not a simple equation, given the power of india and a number of other smaller
powers in the region, all tooled up an ready to go.

Originally posted by Matt1951
China is rising. The US Air Force is being put out of business, they are buying no new fighters and have not for many years. The JSF does not work and cannot be fixed. The US will have to depend on the US Navy and Marines for air power. Since China and the US each have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world many times, they will not fight each other. Conventional weapons are mainly useful for attempting to create colonies, such as the failed attempt in Iraq. Note, the primary ally who was willing to fight and die with US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan was the UK. A sad loss, stupid oligarchs and war criminals rule both countries.

Matt...Once the FEL system is installed...there will be no need for fighters or large numbers of Troops or WAR in General....I have been talking about the FEL for some time now but I can see many of you just don't get how BIG this is or how GREAT of a CHANGE this will cause for WARFARE in general.

The Free Electron Laser System which is right NOW partially installed....is a combination of Networked Super Computers....a World Wide Satellite System equipped with special reflection Systems as a Mirror will not work as a Nuclear Powered Free Electron Laser Beam would vaporize a standard Laser Mirror....FEL's will be installed on every U.S. Carrier as well as Aegis Cruisers and there are already two land version now operational. This form of Laser is not effected by atmospheric conditions....the bean can be split as many times as needed as well as expanded for large ground targets. It works at the speed of light so due to both it's speed, accuracy and power...it is powerful enough to VAPORIZE ANY AND ALL ICBM OR SLBM OR CRUISE OR GRAVITY DROPPED Nuclear Weapons to the point the Warhead will no longer EXIST! It is Self-Defending and it's Satellite System cannot be taken out as it works faster than any incoming Missile or for that matter...Particle Beam.

THIS SYSTEM MAY MAKE WAR OBSOLETE! It is that BIG OF A DEAL! Target and acquisition testing of a Non-Nuclear Powered Version showed that it's networked Super Computing ability....and this will only get better...can split the beam to vaporize multiple targets even as small as a 50 Cal Round. It has the ability to vaporize a hole through 1000 feet of SOLID STEEL in a few seconds.

Now ask yourself...who or what would want to take on such power? NO ONE! Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

But could an A.I. run it?

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Who told you the quietist subs in the world are in the US Navy? Or is this another one of your made up comments.
You know the Royal Navy and Russia claim the same? You realise trying to argue this point just makes you look stupid?

It is already clear that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE in some sort of technology gap existing between America and other first world countries lol!! Are you 16yo or something?

The 'FEL' that you so foolishly think is some sort of ultimate weapon is not in service yet, Russia, China and even your allies have 'ultimate weapons' in development too, its what is in service TODAY that counts. Who'd of thought, outside of America we have technology too, not just sticks and stones.

But, just top humour you a bit, your ultimate weapon is going to be fitted to out of date warships? i.e the Aegis? and you think this makes you invincible? Grow up!
This is China and Russia we are talking about, not Iraq or Libya.

If you want to see how China fights read up on the Battle of the Imjin River during the Korean war.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Examine the battle of 73 Easting to see what I mean about that.

A tank battle against Iraqis has no relevance at all.

You do know what would happen to US/NATO/Western ground forces if they landed in China? See Battle of Imjin River and multiply it by about 1 thousand.