Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his Daughter: (Stand Your Ground will win-again)

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by dubiousone

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
* * * But this guy did what he had to do to protect his daughter. It was happening in real time, right in front of him. No hunting the guy down, no vigilantism. Forget the glorification of the kill, which seems to be what offends you the most. Enlighten us. What's the proper thing to do in the situation?


The tenuous validity of your opinion hinges on your unfounded belief that what the father says happened is true. That the father's story is true has not been established.


You aren't telling me anything I haven't said in here myself already. I don't assume that we have all the facts, my statements are based on what is available at the moment. And while I can't speak for everyone else in here, I imagine most everyone else is at the very least intelligent enough to understand that as well, and their opinions are subject to change when new information comes to light.



The father's need to protect his daughter certainly ended at the point when he had beaten the alleged molester to within an inch of his life.


I personally have never been in a real fight in my entire life. But I can't help but imagine that if (assuming we have the facts straight) someone was committing a viscous felony against a loved one(a child, no less), that the person who was there to stop it would simply keep beating until the other person quit fighting back. As long as they are fighting back, they are a threat.



Many innocent people have been accused of child molestation. Why? Because it only takes an accusation for everyone who hears it to instantly believe the accused is guilty. Witness the replies on this thread. The majority of you are doing that very thing. And some people make those accusations because it is easy to make, almost impossible to defend, and helps them to easily achieve a goal.


I understand. That is a big problem, and with all the police dramas on TV these days it's easy enough for adults and kids to know what accusations to make. Everyone in here is aware of the possibility that the accusation was used as an excuse.



This needs an in depth investigation by qualified professionals, rather than by all the knee jerk emotionally driven ATS self-appointed judge/jury/executioners all rolled into one, to determine what actually happened and why, including whether the child was sexually molested, whether the molester was the dead man, the nature, extent and duration of the molestation, determination of who molested her, and past history between all persons involved in that tragedy.
.....
You can spew your vitriol all day long based on your fantasies about what might have occurred but, at the end of the day, the truth of what happened needs to be determined dispassionately based on fact rather than everyone's imagination driven by knee-jerk emotional reaction.


And that's exactly what will happen. Talk about knee jerk reactions. You are acting like the posts of ATS members have some sort of direct influence on the case. Everyone's watching it unfold, there's new information every minute. If the information that's publicly available is correct, then people are simply stating that they support the use of deadly force in this particular case. If it turns out that it was some kind of elaborate scheme, they will all obviously change their minds. Everyone else just wants to create a false conflict with one another by pretending the supporters don't understand an investigation needs to take place because they morally disagree with the outcome no matter what the facts of the case are.




posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by PurpleChiten


According to the latest report on the investigation, the little girl's underwear was off and his pants and underwear were pulled down. He was NOT innocent, he was a child molestor and now, he's DEAD and deserves to be.


I do not get it. You seemed so smart in other threads. There is no way dad could have said his daughters pants were down even if they weren't? That is not even an option to you? Dad could not have pulled the dead guys pants down after shooting him? You have heard of a staged murder scene before haven't you?

Hey, I just killed an entire family of people.
Do not worry, I saw them raping children, I promise. I get to go now, right?


The guy was INSIDE these peoples homes.

And I would expect that the little girl had her own story (which will be researched by the proper authrotiies)., and I would expect that her story supports her fathers claim.

it goes beyond the pale that people in this thread would question this little girls story. Its no wonder that those poor boys were molested by Sandusky, because Sandusky was right: some folks just don't want to believe the kids when they report what has happened to them. Look at this thread There is absolutely no reason for anyone to question what happened, except for their own ATS paranoid minds.

There are times when questioning the official story makes you look smarter. This is not one of those times.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Actually I don't question the veracity of what happened and I do believe child abuse is pervasive with some people molesting children specifically to damage them and not just because of some perverse sexual proclivity.

What I object to is a man, even a pervert, being beaten to death. Vigilante justice is a crime in itself.

Here is an example of the barbarity of vigilante justice and I recommend that if you are of a nervous disposition or a minor not to watch this video.


edit on 16-6-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by habitforming


No, sorry. I know how English works and the word "make" in your sentence messes it all up. YOU READ IT AGAIN. Correct your error and get back to me. Or, let it sit there UN-answered. In the meantime the best thing you could possibly do is answer my question. I wrote it in clear plain English. You need to learn how to use commas. There are not drones recording any of my interactions right now PERIOD. So there are drones with footage of this man raping this kid? I really do not get your point about the drones at all. What they have to do with this case. How many of the interactions you have made have been recorded?
edit on 16-6-2012 by habitforming because: (no reason given)


Nope, absolutely nothing wrong with it;
"Not without spy drones recording every interaction that people all over the world make we can't..... Is that what you want?"

Just because your reading comprehension has issues doesn't mean that there's something wrong with things that are written sweetie... I COULD reword it for you, but I don't really want to since you are such a hateful little thing, so you can just sit there and be puzzled by it and I'll watch and laugh.
It's straightfoward and easily understood, not my problem that you can't understand it.


I wrote it in clear plain English. You need to learn how to use commas.

If it's grammar you want to argue about... It would be "clear, plain English". That's particularly entertaining since you commented about commas immediately afterwards!! Apparently, you DON'T know how to use commas!!!
edit on 16-6-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by PurpleChiten


According to the latest report on the investigation, the little girl's underwear was off and his pants and underwear were pulled down. He was NOT innocent, he was a child molestor and now, he's DEAD and deserves to be.


I do not get it. You seemed so smart in other threads. There is no way dad could have said his daughters pants were down even if they weren't? That is not even an option to you? Dad could not have pulled the dead guys pants down after shooting him? You have heard of a staged murder scene before haven't you?

Hey, I just killed an entire family of people.
Do not worry, I saw them raping children, I promise. I get to go now, right?


The guy was INSIDE these peoples homes.

And I would expect that the little girl had her own story (which will be researched by the proper authrotiies)., and I would expect that her story supports her fathers claim.

it goes beyond the pale that people in this thread would question this little girls story. Its no wonder that those poor boys were molested by Sandusky, because Sandusky was right: some folks just don't want to believe the kids when they report what has happened to them. Look at this thread There is absolutely no reason for anyone to question what happened, except for their own ATS paranoid minds.

There are times when questioning the official story makes you look smarter. This is not one of those times.


It certainly seems that he's very defensive over a pedophile being killed... makes you wonder what his motivation is doesn't it?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Actually I don't question the veracity of what happened and I do believe child abuse is pervasive with some people molesting children specifically to damage them and not just because of some perverse sexual proclivity.

What I object to is a man, even a pervert, being beaten to death. Vigilante justice is a crime in itself.

Here is an example of the barbarity of vigilante justice and I recommend that if you are of a nervous disposition or a minor not to watch this video.


edit on 16-6-2012 by MI5edtoDeath because: (no reason given)


Then I would recommend you not move to Texas. In Texas our laws allow a person to defend their family. If, in the course of that defense, you accidentally kill them....oh well.

Vigilante justice happens when someone goes out hunting for criminals. THis is not vigilante justice. This is a man catching a criminal in his home, and then dealing with that criminal. I, personally, would not live in a state that didn't have both a Castle Doctrine and a Stand Your Ground type of law. I am more shocked by people who are willing to cede all responsibility for themselves to a government, to be honest.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by MI5edtoDeath
 


That is a horrible scene, but what do we know about it? Maybe they deserved it?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MI5edtoDeath
 


That is a horrible scene, but what do we know about it? Maybe they deserved it?


If you click on more info, it says they are burning them because they believe that they are witches. Still think it's justifiable? Apparently the people doing the burning absolutely think so.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Sounds like Texas is gonna need that kind of thinking real soon.

You know, with all those newly law abiding citizens in the US already.


Not a peep in the media....... other than Obama is God-Romney is the Anti-Christ... in politics.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 



If you click on more info, it says they are burning them because they believe that they are witches. Still think it's justifiable? Apparently the people doing the burning absolutely think so.


Nope, not unless they are certain that those people tortured or murdered someone. That isn't vigilantism though, that is fanatical religion and mass paranoia.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
IF he was attacking a *anyone*, good-riddance. The problem is we have a two-men-can-keep-a-secret-if-one-of-them-are-dead scenario here. Let's hope there is some kind of investigation. I'd hate to think we can just start killing anyone we invite over to the house now, if all that is required to get away with it is an accusation like this....


Not sure why you got all those stars! But the guy pulled the man off his daughter and she was seen by a doctor it was confirmed that it happened!



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by putnamcrab

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
IF he was attacking a *anyone*, good-riddance. The problem is we have a two-men-can-keep-a-secret-if-one-of-them-are-dead scenario here. Let's hope there is some kind of investigation. I'd hate to think we can just start killing anyone we invite over to the house now, if all that is required to get away with it is an accusation like this....


Not sure why you got all those stars! But the guy pulled the man off his daughter and she was seen by a doctor it was confirmed that it happened!


Yeah, it's beyond me why some of these folks are still saying "oh, if it's true, but there's no proof it's true".. they don't bother reading the articles or news sources at all. They don't bother seeing that the investigation is ongoing. They don't bother seeing that there were SEVERAL witnesses, a medical report, the guy called 911 himself after the pedophile died, other people SAW IT HAPPEN....but, "oh, he could just be making it all up so he could kill the other guy"... sheeeesh!!
I have it narrowed down
1. They are just argumentative and take the opposite side of what's posted
2. They are being trolls and want to derail whatever thread is posted
3. They are pedophiles themselves and scared to death that people will start fighting back with them and they won't get to get away with their crimes anymore.

None of these are "positive" and I can't think of any positive reason for what they're doing.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by MI5edtoDeath
 


I am convinced you don't really know what your talking about. There was no vigilanti justice there... Just a father acting on a primal urge to defend his child! Like any other animal!

You must not have children of your own... you certainly lack empathy on the subject... or what does it mean when you lack empathy?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by luciddream
 


If you go find one of the many articles on the case, then you would see that poor little girl was taken to the hospital and it was confirmed. That innocent child had to be violated twice in one day because of the burden of proof lying on the victim.

As a parent, I would have done the same as this father. He was rescuing his very young daughter, and now they both have to live with this tragedy forever.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Daughter2
...
It seems like this guy was one of the good old boys and the person he killed was probably a Mexican.
...


What makes you so sure the dad wasn't also of Mexican decent?
edit on 6/16/2012 by roadgravel because: fix tag



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by putnamcrab

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
IF he was attacking a *anyone*, good-riddance. The problem is we have a two-men-can-keep-a-secret-if-one-of-them-are-dead scenario here. Let's hope there is some kind of investigation. I'd hate to think we can just start killing anyone we invite over to the house now, if all that is required to get away with it is an accusation like this....


Not sure why you got all those stars! But the guy pulled the man off his daughter and she was seen by a doctor it was confirmed that it happened!


While I cannot speak for the poster you refer to, I can say that there is a burgeoning amount of people who are all too willing to cede all responsibility for their own safety to another "authority". I absolutely hate this. So much so that I want to spit and cuss when I think about it (and have to censor my words here carefully).

Our Creator, be it Allah, Yehweh, or Fate, did not create us to be shrinking violets, and we were not created to rely on "someone else" to protect us. We are indiependant thinking, independent acting beings. Why am I seeing so many that deny this?

No, killing someone is not civilized behavior. But when faced with people who behave in an uncivilized manner, the appropriate response is not likely to be civilized. And at the end of the day, that is fine. We ARE still animals, afterall.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by Daughter2
...
It seems like this guy was one of the good old boys and the person he killed was probably a Mexican.
...


What makes you so sure the dad wasn't also of Mexican decent?


hmmmm that's actually a VERY good question!!

Doesn't change that the father did the right thing in any way, shape or form, but a very interesting question nonetheless
edit on 16-6-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by Daughter2
...
It seems like this guy was one of the good old boys and the person he killed was probably a Mexican.
...


What makes you so sure the dad wasn't also of Mexican decent?
edit on 6/16/2012 by roadgravel because: fix tag


My MEXICAN wife believes that the father did the right thing.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by Daughter2
...
It seems like this guy was one of the good old boys and the person he killed was probably a Mexican.
...


What makes you so sure the dad wasn't also of Mexican decent?
edit on 6/16/2012 by roadgravel because: fix tag

The little girl dad is also Mexican decent.
If you listen to the accent of the little girl grandfather, which sounds like a Mexican accent. Which I think he is the dad of the little girl father.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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he two kids’ grandfather later said the boy returned and told him that his sister had been taken away by a man (Flores) who apparently dragged her behind some bushes on the property. The Texas dad went out looking for her, calling her name. KPRC reportedly spoke with the family.

Soon after, he heard the sound of his little girl’s screams and rushed to find her. When he did, he says Flores was molesting his daughter. The dad yanked him off of her and repeatedly struck him in the head and neck with his fists, ultimately killing him. Flores, an acquaintance of the father, had been hired to help tend to some of the family’s horses.

But it is now clear that the father walked into a even more horrifying scene than previously known.

“When emergency medical personnel arrived, Jesus Mora Flores‘ pants and underwear were down and the man’s genitals were exposed,”



The pedo got what he deserved.





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