AIDS Hoax: The truth behind the virus that never was

Originally posted by Danbones
why don't you take the drugs if they are so safe?

Id like you to support your opinion with some ats style referenses that would possible convince an intelligent person your position has merit
the drama queen stuff is so totally lame

I do take the drugs. CD4 at 200 in 2001 and I couldn't even make it to work. Now at 1350 and I travel the world and work my butt off.

Yes they are safe, and MUCH safer than the death I was facing. I am amazingly much healthier than most of my age group now...that is a LONG way from death if you ask me. But if I quit the drugs... I will be back to 200 within a year. Called 'viral setpoint' or 'baseline'. I may be extremely healthy, but it is still in me.

My references are my life (documented in NIH study A5095 - but if you think I'm posting that personal information you are more deluded than I have already decided you are).

Believe me...or not. I don't care.

you have done so well with my request for references
I"ll stick with my impression of you as a DRAMA QUEEN
so no, I don't believe you

Since there are BILLIONS in funny money at stake over this
I'll put my faith in provable experts and research....

Leading biochemical scientists, including University of California at Berkeley retrovirus expert Peter Duesberg and Nobel Prize winner Walter Gilbert, have been warning for years that there is no proof that HIV causes AIDS. The warnings were met first with silence, then with ridicule and contempt. In 1990, for example, Nature published a rare response from the HIV establishment, as represented by Robin A. Weiss of the Institute of Cancer Research in London and Harold W. Jaffe of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Weiss and Jaffe compared the doubters to people who think that bad air causes malaria. "We have . . . been told," they wrote, "that the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) originates from outer space, or as a genetically engineered virus for germ warfare which was tested in prisoners and spread from them. Peter H. Duesberg's proposition that HIV is not the cause of AIDS at all is, to our minds, equally absurd." Viewers of ABC's 1993 Day One special on the cause of AIDS-almost the only occasion on which network television has covered the controversy-saw Robert Gallo, the leading exponent of the HIV theory, stomp away from the microphone in a rage when asked to respond to the views of Gilbert and Duesberg.

Such displays of rage and ridicule are familiar to those who question the HIV theory of AIDS. Ever since 1984, when Gallo announced the discovery of what the newspapers call "HIV, the virus that causes AIDS," at a government press conference, the HIV theory has been the basis of all scientific work on AIDS. If the theory is mistaken, billions of dollars have been wasted-and immense harm has been done to persons who have tested positive for antibodies to HIV and therefore have been told to expect an early and painful death. The furious reactions to the suggestion that a colossal mistake may have been made are not surprising, given that the credibility of the biomedical establishment is at stake. It is time to think about the unthinkable, however, because there are at least three reasons for doubting the official theory that HIV causes AIDS.

www.virusmyth.com...

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
reply to post by neotech1neothink

 

I am delighted Neotech that you are having a small breakthrough in reaching people that are more willing to think twice about what we have been led to believe.

Star and flag for your bravery! You are so not alone

Bravery??? Are you KIDDING???

No bravery to spout this stuff. What is bravery is putting yourself out on a limb to risk your privacy to respond to this crap.

This is why so many jump ON this bandwagon to deny it, and so few can jump in and defend it. This seems to be a favorite topic of bigots and the walking brain-dead. They know there are others that will agree with them and give them stars and flags. ANd FEW that have the real BRAVERY it takes to deny this crap with their own life experience.

It takes NO BRAVERY to be stupid.

This isn't cancer. Advising from life experience opens a person up to all kinds of stigma and bigotry, especially in the U.S. where most of these deniers also believe it is still a disease for drug users and gays and prostitutes. And FYI, I only included gays in that statement as it is ALSO a favorite target of the bigots and walking brain-dead. SO these 'brave' people are NOT brave, they are stupid, at best, extremely evil and prejudiced at worst.

I can't believe there are so many stupid people out there (stupid defined as being ignorant of the subject [that's OK] and spouting your ignorance as FACT [that is DANGEROUS].

Once again, I ask ANY DENIER to post something from THIS CENTURY (besides experience from South Africa, as halfoldman has completely debunked that garbage). Or go away and quit spouting this DANGEROUS HOAX.

Unless you just WANT people to die, then by all means, continue with your evil ramblings.

Originally posted by Danbones
Since there are BILLIONS in funny money at stake over this
I'll put my faith in provable experts and research....

Once again, from 1990. When it was just a hypothesis and anyone could make any statement about something we did not have the technology to PROVE.

Really, I CHALLENGE YOU to post some CURRENT RESEARCH, not old fables from the past.

And...I extend my thanks to halfoldman, for he has lived it in a way that makes my life look like a day at the health spa. I would have responded to the SA statements about Mbeki and the health minister, but I was hoping halfoldman would come in and share his knowledge and life experience in a way none of us can.

Again, thanks. More bravery there than in any of these denialists spouting the worst they can find in their googling.

I imagine the denialists have to skip thousands of references with FACTS to dust off their 20-year old crap made of fable, thats a lot of work and a lot of ignoring facts just to get a star and a flag.

This belongs in the HOAX bin, but that would hide these posters. I would prefer ATS add some special listing to highlight these people and shame them off the net. That won't happen of course, this is free speech, no matter how stupid, bigoted, and dangerous.

By chance, are you deniers also members of the 'flat Earth society'?? More proof there than here!

reply to post by lakesidepark


What you're giving me is a reading assignment. That is not what I asked for. I've heard the "official story." It might be true for some people, but not for everyone. It's the rest of the people I'm referring to. You have still yet to individually address any of the facts I put forth.

I'm through with you. You aren't debating, you're pushing articles to me.

reply to post by daynight42


Actually, I have a problem with this (providing you PROOF), because my life has changed so much that I accept this as common knowledge. It is in my circle, as me and my friends have known those that live and those that die. And to me, the PROOF is too easy to find, as it is all around me.

Me, and my friends, see what happens when someone sick as hell starts the drugs. I have known people that went all the way down to being unable to eat, and rise to health with the drugs, and stop them only to fall back down. And yes I knew people that believed this fable, and are dead. That is the ONLY reason I bother, because I normally come here to read real conspiracies, but get infuriated when I see another troll that bothered to ignore this round Earth of TODAY to propose their flat earth hypothesis from the 1400's.

I am amazed how stupid some people can be even today, I thought all of us were beyond that, but once again, I speak from a world where this is common knowledge, and presenting evidence is not necessary (in my circle) as we LIVE the evidence. We know the virus on a personal level.

To me, presenting evidence to someone that has already bothered to dig thru AND IGNORE so many facts to produce dated information and old hypotheses as the gospel, is like continuing to argue that the earth is round (I already said that didn't I?).

As you already stated that you think all scientists are 'profiteering apes', then there is NOTHING I can post to sway your opinion, as any thing that I post will use either my personal experience (which you do not believe), or my experiences as a participant in the clinical trials that help to produce the 'research' from the profiteering apes (which you also do not believe), and to prove it will expose more about me than I care to post here. What you ask for is proof from people that have to hide their situation to keep their jobs - a VERY CONVENIENT TARGET for the likes of you.

You NEED a reading assignment, as YOU are the one presenting the fables and dangerous misinformation. If you bother to post, then bother a bit more to learn...unless your motivations are not to inform but to misguide. Or worse...you have some bias that motivates you to promote this in the hopes that someone will die from your 'advice'. I wish that was an accusation, but I fear it is more truth than any of the 'deniers' will admit.

FYI, you made an accusation about me on the first page of this thread - i.e. "You are a misinformed person who does not speak from personal experience! You speak for others!" You should bother to read past posting history before you make accusations. Since you refuse to do even that basic step before making your accusations, why should I bother to try to inform you from personal experience, or from current research? Why? WHY?

I've met others like you. Guess what? in 1990 I was actually one of you. Believed this crap all the way until the diagnosis after a decade of trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Refused the test, as I wasn't gay, didn't use needles, not a hemophilac and never had a transfusion...but I did have sex, and that was enough (and that girl is now dead BTW). Doubted the drugs would work,and made my plans to die. Made friends, and some of them from the gay community, friends that could no longer keep up with the numbers of their friends that died in denial. Met housewifes, and teenagers. I personally know dozens of close friends now that deal with it, and have met hundreds more at seminars and conventions. Learned a whole new perspective on the organization ACT-UP (I thought of them as...well I won't say, since you probably think that way now...but in 2002 ACT-UP was led by a housewife with three kids, and was waging a campaign against Coca-Cola to provide drugs to their infected employees in South Africa).

If that doesn't make you reconsider the accusation, then continue on with your fables. Let others see where the intelligence of this conversation lies.

So, as you say....I am done with you. I don't expect you to read and learn, it's beyond you for some reason.

Enough of your old fables....meet MY CHALLENGE - present something from researchers that was made in THIS CENTURY, and don't bother with the old stuff. It's been debunked by millions that live, and millions that have died since that crap was written.

Any others with open minds should read a bit before believing anything that has been promoted by the OP and the supporters of the OP. This argument should have died more than a decade ago. It is so sad it has not.

I think people are looking in the wrong direction on an HIV conspiracy. I believe the HIV virus does indeed exist. In my opinion, the HIV virus could have originated in another animal and possibly altered in the laboratory so that it could infect humans. The true conspiracy lies in the likely intentional mismanagement of the outbreak by the CDC and other government organizations whose policies helped the virus spread. A known fact is that people who know they are HIV positive are much less likely to spread the virus than those who do not know their HIV status. Therefore, if there was really a desire to prevent the spread, HIV testing would have been offered free and encouraged as part of a routine yearly physician exam at a time when the virus was spreading rapidly. Also, if many can recall, the mainstream media at the time encouraged the protection of the rights of those HIV positive and government agencies worked to prevent discrimination against those HIV positive, therefore preventing any quaranteen effect which may have limited the spread.

reply to post by tucker81


Now, this direction on a conspiracy is something to consider. I do not doubt that there are indeed conspiracies about this virus. Where did it come from? Are cures being withheld? Do some try to promote it as a population reduction tool? Was it originally intended to target 'undesirables'?

Those discussions do not bother me as I have some of those same questions. And in those areas, the proof is elusive, and should bve sought out by inquiring and intelligent minds.

But doubting that it exists, or even INSISTING it doesn't exist? And using old hypothesis and fables from the last century as PROOF? Parrots without any analytical skills and a bit short on grey matter, looking for like-minded apes to give them stars and cheer them on. That is where the line is crossed into dangerous stupidity and ignorance.

sorry double post, please remove.

Hi All,

Those asking for 2012 dated evidence supporting the FACT that AIDS does NOT exist and is purely a MIND CREATED REALITY.

The following FDA APPROVED companies/tests STINK!

FDA - APPROVED HIV TESTS

www.omsj.org... Only Online.pdf

The Establishments stance on AIDS is so damned full of holes.

The purpose of this thread is NOT HOLOCAUST DENIAL!

To DENY that people are dying of (so-called) AIDS is INSANE and EVIL! Those maliciously twisting this thread and my posts and the whole intended purpose of this thread out of context stating that I deny people are dying and wish them dead (AND THAT I'M USING PEOPLE'S LIVES TO OBTAIN "ATS" STARS AND FLAGS? THEY ARE SICK, INSANE AND EVIL! FYI - I'm MINUS approx 2,000 points I've had so many warnings! F*ck the flags and points! For me "ATS" has NEVER been about "silly mind created award points" but about getting the information out).

EVERYTHING in our power should be done to heal (so-called) AIDS sufferers.

ATS is a discussion site is it not? The purpose of ATS threads being to examine both sides of the story the official and the opposite viewpoint. In life all things are neither completely BLACK or WHITE they are GREY (a combination of both
sides)! So it is with HIV/AIDS. The SOLE PURPOSE of my thread being to EXAMINE both sides of the story and END FOREVER the SCOURGE THAT IS AIDS!

DEATHS FROM SO-CALLED "AIDS" CAN AND WILL ONE DAY BE COMPLETELY ERADICATED AND CURED.

HOWEVER, UNLESS THE GOVERNMENTS "MIND MANIPULATIONS AND TRICKS" USED WITHIN THE "AIDS" ARENA ARE ENDED NOW! THEN YOU CAN BE SURE THAT THEY WILL PLAY THE SAME MIND TRICKS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN ON NEWER AND MORE COMPLEX LEVELS WITH NEWER AND DEADLIER "MIND CREATED" DISEASES ON MORE COMPLEX LEVELS LEVELS E.G. H1N1, MAD COW DISEASE. TAKING MORE LIVES AND MONEY AND POWER AS A RESULT! THE GOVERNMENTS "MIND MANIPULATIONS AND TRICKS" ARE USED AGAINST YOU IN ALL AREAS OF LIFE!

THIS THREAD WAS NEVER ABOUT "AIDS" BUT WAS ABOUT SOCIETIES MANIPULATION OF FACTS USED AGAINST YOU DAILY!

I refuse to personally dialogue with those people using specious out-of-context attacks based upon their own delusions, whims or wishes or supporting the existing establishment line that is so full of holes.

Anyone having unsafe sex based upon my saying that AIDS does not exist, is a complete idiot! Anyone with half a brain knows that there are plenty of other sexually transmitted diseases out there that are REAL and DANGEROUS so safe sex should be practiced at ALL times!

Anyone sharing needles based upon my saying that AIDS does not exist, is a complete idiot! Anyone with half a brain knows that there are plenty of other blood transmitted diseases out there that are REAL and DANGEROUS so sterile needles should be used once only and then disposed of safely at ALL times!

Anyone spitting at or attacking or threatening to attack someone using their blood or bodily fluids based upon my saying that AIDS does not exist, is a complete idiot! Anyone with half a brain knows that there are plenty of other saliva/blood transmitted diseases out there that are REAL and DANGEROUS so such crimes should be punishable as if the fluids were a loaded weapon!

Anyone acting with a blase attitude thinking that it is okay to contact with or ingest another persons bodily fluids based upon my saying that AIDS does not exist, is a complete idiot! Anyone with half a brain knows that there are plenty of other saliva/blood transmitted diseases out there that are REAL and DANGEROUS so ALL such bodily fluids should be avoided and treated as if the fluids were a biological hazard!

This thread is now closed. I will NOT enter into further dialog on this subject. The information is OUT THERE with which to build both sides of the case FOR and AGAINST! Not only about AIDS but about ALL subjects!

I thank EVERYONE who has written FOR and AGAINST.

YOU are ALL DIVINE SOVEREIGN INDIVIDUALS SOLELY IN CHARGE OF YOUR OWN LIFE, HAPPINESS AND HEALTH (IN CONSULTATION WITH A PROFESSIONAL DOCTOR)!

DON'T TAKE MINE OR ANYONE'S WORD FOR ANYTHING! DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE "GOVERNMENTS MANIPULATIONS AND MIND TRICKS"! ONLY THEN WILL YOU BE FREE.

Once again, I ask ANY DENIER to post something from THIS CENTURY (besides experience from South Africa, as halfoldman has completely debunked that garbage). Or go away and quit spouting this DANGEROUS HOAX.

Here you are:

Here you are, click on this text, in case you missed it the first time I posted it.

Calm down, everyone is entitled to their views, regardless of it being different from yours.

reply to post by lakesidepark


What a lengthy response. I skimmed it. I presented very very little information at all. If you had an issue with it, address those points.

I presented 2 facts, and then I logically deduced information from those. If you have an issue with what I presented, address it. You don't just slop over what I said and hand out links and say, "I'm done."

The easiest way to prove me wrong, is to show that I am. You have only offered links. We're all left wondering why you haven't taken up issue with the simple facts and logic I used.

I stand clear and correct as of yet, because my simple facts remain unchallenged. Thank you.

I am also sorry to hear of your unfortunate losses. Do not mistake your experiences with all experiences. That would be an easy fallacy. It's easy to make when you are emotional, however, so I understand.

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky

Once again, I ask ANY DENIER to post something from THIS CENTURY (besides experience from South Africa, as halfoldman has completely debunked that garbage). Or go away and quit spouting this DANGEROUS HOAX.

Here you are:

Here you are, click on this text, in case you missed it the first time I posted it.

Calm down, everyone is entitled to their views, regardless of it being different from yours.

1993. Old hypothesis again, without the benefit of today's more advanced research tools.

I saw it the first time, thank you, and way before this board existed. Unlike some here, I have read this stuff when it was printed on paper, not pixels.

Another fail. Challenge still stands.

Now, try again. From THIS century, please.

reply to post by neotech1neothink


Another fail. Give a link that works, please.

And BTW, include in your warning list that 'those who read my posts should not use it to deny themselves the treatments available today based on hypothesis and experience of 1990, as the treatments are proven to work, otherwise they may subject themselves to a side effect called death'.

That's the point I wish to make.

reply to post by daynight42


it is simple 'hypotheses' that stand debunked with modern tools and newer research.
No FACTS involved, as it was all theory and hypothesis in 1990.

The challenge is to prove it with TODAY's science and experience.

That challenge stands UNMET.

Originally posted by lakesidepark
it is simple 'hypotheses' that stand debunked with modern tools and newer research.
No FACTS involved, as it was all theory and hypothesis in 1990.

Since you haven't provided any links, only hearsay, the onus is on you to support your claims.

You claim that anything older than 10 years is invalid, but i don't really believe anything new has been added since then?

Show me wrong.

HIV is a virus that lowers cd count.
AIDS usually follows infection of HIV
Pharmaceuticals are the only accepted option for treatment of symptoms.
There is no cure.

What's new?

reply to post by harryhaller


In other words....you agree with me. I am trying to say the same thing. DId you confuse me with a denialist?
I have no reason to prove you wrong, as common knowledge agrees with you.

The denialists present their 'evidence' from the days where there were NO drugs that stopped it, only slowed it down. No method to direct-image the virus. No idea how it attached to the T-cell. That information has changed drastically over the last 20 (not 10) years since the denialist's 'evidence' was created. No one can deny that technology available to the medical researchers has advanced, as all technology has in that time.

And it is undeniable that there are hundreds of thousands living healthy (that includes ME) that otherwise would be dead without the newer combination drugs. Do I have to prove that one too?

I only challenge them to use evidence from this century to support THEIR claims, as most of those that know about this accept your common knowledge, much as they accept the earth is round, and don't bother to argue with the 'flat earthers'.

I have no problem with your response. You agree with me.

It is the OP and the supporters that need to provide valid PROOF of their claims, not supposition from the last century. Not me.

As your post proves, my position is common knowledge and has been for the last 10 years. The OP posts from way beyond that.

Originally posted by tucker81
I think people are looking in the wrong direction on an HIV conspiracy. I believe the HIV virus does indeed exist. In my opinion, the HIV virus could have originated in another animal and possibly altered in the laboratory so that it could infect humans. The true conspiracy lies in the likely intentional mismanagement of the outbreak by the CDC and other government organizations whose policies helped the virus spread. A known fact is that people who know they are HIV positive are much less likely to spread the virus than those who do not know their HIV status. Therefore, if there was really a desire to prevent the spread, HIV testing would have been offered free and encouraged as part of a routine yearly physician exam at a time when the virus was spreading rapidly. Also, if many can recall, the mainstream media at the time encouraged the protection of the rights of those HIV positive and government agencies worked to prevent discrimination against those HIV positive, therefore preventing any quaranteen effect which may have limited the spread.

I agree with this statement too. This is the root of the 'conspiracy'. While people died, scientists played politics to claim credit and discredit their peers. Politicians played their politics. While (undeniably) people died. Papers were produced on a subject where, in the early 90's, there was no hard proof of anything except people were dying. Misconceptions were made to play on people's bias and fights were fought to prevent funding research.

This is long ago past history. It was theories then...facts have been proven since, so many that is is common knowledge. Yet...there are those with their personal bias and motivations that keep ignoring today's knowledge to promote the ideas of disproven theories, and it (to me) is not comprehensible.