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My opinion on UFOs as a research scientist: some are extraterrestrial

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posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Vandelay Industries
reply to post by Flux8
 


I have made some responses. I do have a job that keeps me fairly busy.


You (as the OP) have displayed an astounding amount of non-availability in a project here on ATS that you started. Kinda makes you wonder if you really did do all this "research" that convinces you that ET exists. I asked a serious question of you on page two that if you never answered. If you find the time, you might answer.

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posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Vandelay Industries
 

Thank you for your post. I am among those who consider extra-terrestrials exist (as on the basis of probability alone it seems hard to support the opposite view). However, like some others, I would appreciate some specific data and examples that persuaded you in your opinion.

While waiting for some, I'd like to ask you to clarify a few points where your statements seem inconsistent with your stated insistence on scientific method. I must emphasize that in the following I am not saying you are wrong. I'm just seeking clarification.

For example, you said:

I have also concluded that visitations to earth have occurred, that they are relatively rare, and that they are most likely scientific exploration by extraterrestrials. I have concluded that never has the US or any government made contact, retrieved crashed disks, or created a top secret program to reverse engineer UFOs. Much to the contrary, I think we know nothing.

As you think “we know nothing”, then how did you conclude that “visitations to earth have occurred” and “they are most likely scientific exploration by extraterrestrials”? What scientific basis did you use to derive those two statements?

Could you also clarify “relatively rare”? A number would help, such as the number of visitations per specific time period, along with an explanation of why this number is taken as “rare” and by whose standards it is considered to be so? Is there a (at least theoretical) number or rate of visitation that is taken as common or frequent? If so, how was it derived?

And then you said:

We concluded quite early on that the phenomenon is real, we have no idea what they are or are doing here, and that they are most likely non-hostile.

So again, if “we” (who is “we”?) have no idea what they are doing here (and don't even know what they are), then how do you reach the conclusion that they are “most likely non-hostile”? In what way is this a scientific approach? What data did you use to determine their potential to be hostile or otherwise?

Next:

During my studies of the UFO topic, I learned that because of the high signal to noise ratio in the data, it is very easy for the curious mind to drift toward the fringe aspects of the phenomenon.

Now that's interesting, because in this post you said:

Sadly however, the UFO issue is being investigated by 99.9% non-scientists, and the result is 99.9% pseudoscience. The field has a very low low low signal to noise, and if you do research primarily on the internet, you will find it hard to get to the good stuff.

So, you're saying that data in the UFO topic has a “high signal to noise ratio”, but in the field of UFO issues being investigated, there is “very low low low signal to noise”. How is this so?

In the above-linked post you also said:

My opinion is that the phenomenon does exist, and our governments have absolutely no idea what 'they' are doing here, and is there no secret UFO agency within the US government (not anymore, anyway).

So, having said in that post that there is no secret UFO agency within the US government at present – “not anymore, anyway” implies you believe there once was: otherwise, why say this? – how do you explain the statement in your OP that:

...never has the US or any government made contact, retrieved crashed disks, or created a top secret program to reverse engineer UFOs.

(Bolding mine.)

I appreciate that if we argue semantics you could say there is now no secret UFO agency, and this is a separate issue from a UFO program. However, if there ever was a secret program (to reverse engineer UFOs) then isn't it likely there was a government agency involved somewhere? Even if it were a non-secret agency, that does not deny the possibility that such a program could be conducted in secret under its aegis.

It is reasonable, though, that if the US or any government wanted to reverse engineer UFOs they would establish a program for it. Seeing as such a program has never been made public, then if one existed or exists now, it was/is secret. But having previously said they didn't have one now (“not anymore, anyway”), you now say they “never” had one.

Which is it? Did they ever have a top-secret UFO program or not? And even if you now assert they never did, how can you prove it? Just because you personally cannot find proof of such a program does not mean it never existed. It could simply be that you can't find such evidence because it's secret.

I'm looking forward to your reply on the above matters. And like many of us, I am also looking forward to details of some specific cases you have studied and which led you to your various conclusions.

Best regards,

Mike

edit on 12/6/12 by JustMike because: typo



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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I don't think 99% of UFO stuff is junk.

Well, maybe it is.

But, I do believe that at least 95% of UFO experiences are never reported and that the UFO "thing" is HUGER than we can even guess. ENORMOUS! (whatever it is)



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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It's my experience that most people that starts to self-study the UFO phenomenon with an open mind come to the conclusion that there is definately something unexplained there.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by MerkabaMeditation
 


Exactly right.

Welcome to ATS btw.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Vandelay Industries
 


As you say:
"The UFO subject is a scientific phenomenon. Unfortunately, over 99% of UFO researchers lack any scientific training."

In science one rule is: you have to replicate the physical experiment. Now, with UFO-sightings it is difficult to replicate the experiment. So my question is witch side of the scale is more important, one realy good documented case or a lot of UFO-sightings that make a certain pattern.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Vandelay Industries
 

Hasn't anyone noticed that the OP has abandoned his thread?

A sure sign that he is not willing or able to support it.

jw



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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I'm glad someone with some documented intelligence stood up to state this point. If only more of you PHD'ers would do the same. It's easy to laugh at someone like me being a highschool dropout but a little more difficult with your credentials! Thank you. Flagged.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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How much money did the OP use to research his chosen field of study? That is actually surprisingly crucial: my job is with the railways, hence travelling for nothing frequently, plus I was promoted within them in 1988....I then landed a room with an extremely low rent.......& no bills......investigating "the ufo question" from that angle is very different, and made me very skeptical of other researchers, and meeting & watching them proved me right.....Jacques Vallee sat staring at me wordlessly until I just got up & left (quote: "I listen to all the little stories other ufo researchers probably dismissed"), watched Jenny Randles tell people she didn't have enough money to stay and shot off thru the crowd making sure she didn't say anything to anyone after one of her talks, Andy Roberts spoke about "the Berwyn Mountain Incident" in Blackpool in 1996 or thereabouts, and bad luck for him: a surprising number of people from near Berwyn came along to hear him talk: they started shouting at him as time and again he attempted to specify a location they knew was not where he said it was: Sam Wright, conference organiser said "....he just completely ignored them and carried on talkin', so they started goin' up onto the stage and shouted at him, which he didn't like very much....."
That is the reality of "ufo research". Hardly anything is really being done. From my point of view of really spending money, I was shocked at how mysterious it all really is: I do think people are being abducted by aliens, each of whom I travelled to meet many times, which I did do simply because I work in the railways: as one responder to this thread said, "There must be more to them travelling here than just taking a look at the rocks": that's right: it is the question of our resources, our coal, iron, mineral complexities, food, warmth....what bothers us bothers them, BUT they've gone thru our many civilisation's phases and more than that, and began to fail to afford it. They are here to steal our mineral wealth, to steal gigantic quantities of water, to take back to hollowed out husks of their biospheres/planets. I had a lot of luck with confidential contacts who had been highly placed in society, combined with stumbling on little anecdotes in far flung locations which fitted jigsaw-like with what they had told me: so I feel like I know what's going on.
Each time you think of a ufo researcher who thinks aliens are visiting us think about the fact that he is usually a well-off sort already, therefore he doesn't have anything to gain and has plenty to lose: John Mack, a Harvard lecturer, Nick Pope employed by the government, Bud Hopkins quite well established as an artist, David Jacobs a uni lecturer (I think, wasn't so sure about that one).....switrching to my personal friends-who-are-alien-contact-believers: Don Fraser and Seamus Twardowska both VERY much more highly placed than Nick Pope was or is: Paul MacDonald who makes swords and teaches sword fencing (throughout the world, that is): Bob Brooks investigative journalist for many years in Northumberland: Sharon Larkin in Cumbria has for many years been the manageress of a car valeting firm, promoted within days of getting a job with them: her own car was so unusually beautiful it featured in a car magazine special feature. Each time someone has said "I believe aliens are here", in a knowledgeable way, they have almost always been very secure in society: rather at odds with Susan Blackmore's conclusions that there is always something a bit psychologically/psychiatrically deficient about a ufo believer: ask her how much money she spent on coming to that conclusion. (She exploits Jenny Randles' transsexuality to considerably over-balance the image of ufology into that conclusion).
Nota bene: "Seamus Twardowska" was changed from the man's real name, due to the seriousness of him being the first man shouted at by Margaret Thatcher one minute after the Belgrano was sunk in 1982. I did write down the real name at first. He had said to me "I had had to be told that that Rendlesham Forest incident was definitely an alien contact situation. We were told to watch out in case war broke out between us and them."



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by v1rtu0s0
 

lol i wrote that ages ago as my last login name for this site "chooselove" . i had forgotten about that lol
cheers



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Before I go into this, I have never ever gone to the internet for a source to my information because I never thought that I could find information to what I know, but here I guess is a little info about Hitler and aliens.

I have read there account and now I will tell you what really happened.
www.ufocasebook.com...




When Adolf Hitler spread his message of hatred, genocide, and oppression, as having been inspired by a blond race of superhuman warriors referred to as Aryans, it is assumed through historical accounts that this was simply the contrived mythology of a madman.



The Nazis themselves claimed that an extraterrestrial society was the source of their ideology and the power behind their organization. Nazi mysticism, indeed, was reportedly a direct product of cult worship to Manipulative Extraterrestrials.





Critical historical accounts have linked Adolf Hitler, and other high ranking Nazis as having communicated with self-anointed Nordic gods who were a part constituency of Manipulative Extraterrestrials which to Gnostics disciples of Jesus were identified as demons.



In 1917, after more then 13 years the archeologist finally dug around the whole ship, 5 years before that they found a door or a slit or an opening, which let them, go inside the massive ship.

The inside of the ship had no levers buttons or other panel type instruments that would normally be found in a vehicle…

One particular scientist practically lived inside the ship as he stayed in the ship for months and months at a time tying to figure out what was going on and how on earth can he bring this machine to life.

One day during a very powerful storm ,a lighting bolt struck not to far from the ship as something glowed inside the ship that was seen by the scientist.
It took the scientist 2 weeks to carefully remove the small hand held object and when he did, it was the start of a new GOLDEN age for man.. ‘THE BELL’

When the scientist touched the bell, it gave him more knowledge in his field than he ever knew ,the touching of this object gave the bearer an extra boost in what ever the bearer knew.

If a baby knew how to count to 5,after touching the bell the baby will most likely count to 1,000.

If a pilot knew how to fly an airplane ,after touching the bell they would automatically no how to fly the space shuttle.

‘’This hand held object would Heightened what the bearer already knew to the level of completion in his or her field of knowledge.’’

The scientist tested this object on many of the poor and some on the upper class,some it drove completely crazy,some it drove so crazy that they were immeditly vegetables and were put to death.
The whole time the test were being done and used on people, was the whole time in some the hand held object was forming a bond THROUGH BLOOD TYPE
It was said that Hitler was in his 20s when they tested him and that albert eistein was even in this project as a ‘janitor’.
Ps.I am not writing this I have a 30 seciond window to get this off one tine a day help this is not me we are being visited bty some extraterestil being nasa pleas hekp I am not casrzy they use frequncie sof such tojj rget in the astmoshper help pleas I havnt eaten in years I

The bell was not a big giant bell as you humans have suggested in the fable that you feed your populice, the bell was called a bell because when touched, it gave a ringing bell like sound ,to the bearer.

When the first triangle space ship was flipped over they than found out that this space ship has 3 very big engines.

Adolf was not building flying saucers…He was trying to build 3 massive saucer shape engines to fit underneath the triangle.

World's first pocket watch
Cars (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Porsche, VW...)
World's first petrol/gasoline engine, diesel engine, motorcycle and Jet engine
World's first light bulb, TV, LCD screen
Electric & electronic goods (Siemens, Bosch...)
Classical music (Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Wagner, Strauss...)
Philosophy (Leibniz, Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche, Marx, Heidegger...)
Beer
Sauerkraut & sausages

The idea of touch screen came directly from the panel boards of the 'flying triangle space ship'but thats no secret!


Germany's achievements in science and technology have been significant and research and development efforts form an integral part of the country's economy. Germany has been the home of some of the most prominent researchers in various scientific disciplines, notably physics, mathematics, chemistry and engineering.[1] For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences (physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine) than any other nation.






edit on 12-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by LastProphet527
 



What scientist and the populace of this earth do not know is that the bell was actually the saucer engines being tested for underneath propulsion to lift a very big object.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by LastProphet527
 


Do you have any idea what is on the second half of that video you posted?



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by LastProphet527
 


wow...sure, "stupid" does come to mind after reading the gibberish you have made up...


Sir/madam, those videos are showing PAINTINGS that exist in museums, cathedrals and churches all around the world.

Your gibberish is not going to debunk the fact that these paintings, and ancient texts describing ufos exist and have been observed throughout most of the history of mankind...

Your gibberish doesn't debunk anything, but it shows the state of your mind...




Wisdom often sounds like gibberish to those without wisdom.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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LOL. i found that an easy read myself

The paragraphs are fine.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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Brilliant piece!

Great reading



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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the "UFOs" in my opinion would be drones, robotic cyberkinetic organisms,
sent from what we all vision as a starship on patrol, or a distant planet a long time ago.
it's not hard to imagine they would have mapped our sector by now if they exist.

if any 'life' like us were to travel to the closest planet(s), the best chance we have would be to be partially robotic,
able to disconnect our minds and bodies in a digital storage/cryogenic homeostasis for long periods of time to conserve age for long distance travel.
removing the humanity aspect essentially by becoming semi-digital beings.

eventually I think for space travel purposes people will systematically remove and replace the internal organs with artifical systems suitable for zero-gravity and long travel, an exo-skeleton, with augmented reality.

the robotic aspect seems inevitable due to logistics.

random thought, if they (aliens) were just passing by at the same time we happened to be testing a nuke or something just before Roswell, and they got a massive gamma ray reading on their sensors...
i'd imagine they would put us under alien surveillance lol..
edit on 13-6-2012 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by Vandelay Industries
 


sorry

I'm

not buying this .. if you have a PhD .. and don't put paragraphs in your post..

that's below 8th grade knowledge..

I'd like to see your thesis .. cuz' I'm sure it has paragraphs.. ~!

and I MIGHT believe you if you had a close encounter of the 4th kind.. till then

pure BS ~! PhD ~!! .. seriously LMAO~!!



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 02:56 AM
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So what hard proofs did you stumble by? Care to describe them ?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by Vandelay Industries
 


sorry

I'm

not buying this .. if you have a PhD .. and don't put paragraphs in your post..

that's below 8th grade knowledge..

I'd like to see your thesis .. cuz' I'm sure it has paragraphs.. ~!

and I MIGHT believe you if you had a close encounter of the 4th kind.. till then

pure BS ~! PhD ~!! .. seriously LMAO~!!



Yeh, that's...not good.



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