Ban "Birthers"?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
The term birther simply expedites things. It's faster than saying "people who believe Obama is not eligible to be president due to his place of birth or father's nationality" and it is a generic term with no implied connotations. If left up to the birthers to choose what they would like to be called they would come up with something like truther or Defender of Liberty. These terms do have connotations involved with them. They imply that those who buy into birther conspiracies are right and that those who are against aren't only wrong but that they are intentionally obfuscating the truth or hate Liberty. The only reason you perceive the term birther as being derogatory is because of the birthers themselves. They have bought into and produced so many lies that they have made themselves a joke to the vast majority of the country.

So if you want to blame anyone for the negative connotations behind the term you only have your fellow birthers to blame. The term started with no connotations. It was merely a way to quickly describe people with these beliefs. The birthers brought these connotations on themselves through their actions and now they must live with the consequences.

So Obamatard is just to expedites things its faster then saying people who mindlessly follow and support Obama right?

reply to post by hawkiye


Obamatard has inherent negative connotations. As I pointed out birther has no inherent connotation. It is a generic term. If has picked up connotations over the years it is merely through the actions of those who bear the title.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Obamatard has inherent negative connotations. As I pointed out birther has no inherent connotation. It is a generic term. If has picked up connotations over the years it is merely through the actions of those who bear the title.

LOL at birther not having negative connotations it amounts to a synonym for all practical purposes in the users mind for idiot moron and baffoon etc. and is used exclusively to politically troll and inflame and for no other purpose. In fact there is no other context in which the term has ever been used it is a made up term specifically for that purpose. You can;t show me a thread where it is not used to inflame deride and ridicule. No one has ever said something like Gee Birthers are a great bunch of people fighting for truth justice and the american way. etc. it is only used derogatorily and those trying to say it isn't are grasping at air.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by stanguilles7
The thing is, "Birthers" call themselves 'birthers'. so... it can hardly be called derogative.

Says someone who uses the term regularly to inflame and disrupt otherwise reasonable conversation...

Says someone trying to disrupt an otherwise reasonable conversation.

reply to post by hawkiye


Where is the inherent negative connotation? Let's look at the New Oxford American Dictionary definition of the term:

a conspiracy theorist who challenges President Obama's U.S. birth certificate.

Where is the negative connotation? If it's such a negative term why do birthers not only refer to themselves as such but even have a website named after the term?

Birthers.org

It is a ubiquitous term that has been adopted by both sides of the argument. As I have said, if has picked up any negative connotation it is due solely to the actions and behavior of birthers.

reply to post by hawkiye


The only negative connotations of the word you're talking about comes from within your own mind. As is the case with most politically hot terms.

The only words that shouldn't be allowed are racial slurs. Birther is not a racial slur, as such there is nothing wrong with it.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
This thread is rediculous.

Banning people because you don't like a word they use to describe themselves or an ideology is pretty dumb... What is this Germany circa 1940? Come on folks. Let's grow up a bit.

edit on 10-6-2012 by W3RLIED2 because: (no reason given)

No no no, you have it backwards, this is EXACTLY the way to go about it. We should ban "liberals", "conservatives", "truthers", "gay", "straight", "black", "Asian", "white", "redneck"....anyone of those terms can be used as inflammatory rhetoric. Better ban 'em all!!!

Cuz, ya know, thats the way to deal with those who dont agree with you.

And, for the record, the OP uses the term "liberal" in the EXACT way he is using as reasoning for trying to get "birther" banned. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

For The record I do not use the term Liberal anywhere!

On another note I want to thank you for all your posts on this thread you represent the people who use the term "Birther" derogatorily quite nicely with all your animosity derogatory and inflammatory comments. I could not have a better example.

I have no idea if this will help in the least influence ATS on a slight rules change or not ATS is not a democracy but it is a problem that needed to be brought to light.



Thanks again

all that is being prven is that you think the term "birther" is equivolent to ACTUAL personal attacks and insults, and that you would remove the right to use a specific word because it hurts your feelings.

I'm still waiting for some examples of banned terms that you think are equivelent to "birther". So far your only example is "obamatard" which is obviously not even a remotely viable comparison. So please, enlighten us.

Or continue to cry because "mommy, he called me a name I don't like"

reply to post by hawkiye

So Obamatard is just to expedites things its faster then saying people who mindlessly follow and support Obama right?

Do you honestly not see the difference to your definition and the one you were responding to???


When I use "Birthers" it is to describe the group of people who question Obama's birthplace and/or those that question his Birth Certificate.


Just like when I use the term "Christian" to describe the group of people who believe in Jesus Christ. Or the term "Conspiracy Theorist" to describe people who believe in, discuss, or investigate Conspiracy Theories. Or the term "Trekkies" to describe people who are Star Trek fans.

Each of the labels above can have different meanings to different people...some think "Christians" are idiots who believe in myths, I don't. Some believe "Conspiracy Theorist" are paranoid freaks, in general...I don't. Some think "Trekkies" are huge dorks and live in their parents basements...may be true for a few people...but the label doesn't imply that you are saying that about everyone who likes Star Trek.


"Birthers" is a descriptive term based on what the group of people believe. If you find a negative in that, then that is from your own opinions and beliefs. We shouldn't ban a word because one persons beliefs.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

It is a ubiquitous term that has been adopted by both sides of the argument. As I have said, if has picked up any negative connotation it is due solely to the actions and behavior of birthers.

Ridiculous. Sorry the new definition on the dictionary does not define context the word birther is not used benignly and sterile as the dictionary definition. It is a derogatory term used in place of idiot moron etc. by those who use it. the dictionary definition of gay is happy but culturally it means homosexual. So sorry you pulling the dictionary definition authority card does not fly. And laughing out loud it already being in the dictionary.

Birther is a derogatory term pure and simple. People who use it do so as a label to deride a group of people they see as stupid morons etc. hence it is synonymous for those terms especially on this site.

Even you insinuate that it is synonymous with being stupid morons etc. as you think their actions are stupid and moronic and they have brought it on themselves. See even you use it in a derogatory negative way and try to blame it on the group you label... Sigh

You guys can't even take responsibility for your actions...

reply to post by hawkiye


There is no insinuations!!!! Your projecting that on text.

Let me spell it out for you.

Banning words is stupid. This thread sucks, and you are being overly sensitive.

Where my insinuation at? Pretty blatant.

reply to post by hawkiye


Here is a simple question.

What would you like everyone to call the group of people that question Obama's place of birth or the validity of his Birth Certificate???

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by hawkiye

 

So Obamatard is just to expedites things its faster then saying people who mindlessly follow and support Obama right?

Do you honestly not see the difference to your definition and the one you were responding to???


When I use "Birthers" it is to describe the group of people who question Obama's birthplace and/or those that question his Birth Certificate.


Just like when I use the term "Christian" to describe the group of people who believe in Jesus Christ. Or the term "Conspiracy Theorist" to describe people who believe in, discuss, or investigate Conspiracy Theories. Or the term "Trekkies" to describe people who are Star Trek fans.

Each of the labels above can have different meanings to different people...some think "Christians" are idiots who believe in myths, I don't. Some believe "Conspiracy Theorist" are paranoid freaks, in general...I don't. Some think "Trekkies" are huge dorks and live in their parents basements...may be true for a few people...but the label doesn't imply that you are saying that about everyone who likes Star Trek.


"Birthers" is a descriptive term based on what the group of people believe. If you find a negative in that, then that is from your own opinions and beliefs. We shouldn't ban a word because one persons beliefs.

LOL at the obama faithful all over this thread to claim they do not use the term derogatorily... They just calmly and respectively use it so benignly and sterile birther this and birther that birther lies birther BS etc etc.

Anyone who has been on a thread discussing Obamas eligibility knows this is all a lie the obama faithful are nasty arrogant and tossing the label all over the thread to death. it would be one thing if it was used once and a while as descriptive but they have to tag almost every sentence or or accusation with the birther prefix. It is political trolling pure and simple and is meant to inflame their opponent.

reply to post by hawkiye


Than use the alert button on the trolls!

Why start a thread trying to swing the ban hammer, yet again, over a word, when the real issue is you biting troll bait?

You could pick the most complementary term possible, and it would still sound derogatory when someone is dismissing the ridiculous claims. For example -- "It's typical of the smart ones to ignore the fact that Hawaii has officially confirmed Obama's birth certificate." It's not the term that's bothering you -- it's the rest of the sentence. Unfortunately that's free speech, and you can't ban it.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Than use the alert button on the trolls!

Why start a thread trying to swing the ban hammer, yet again, over a word, when the real issue is you biting troll bait?

You have never fired back at a troll right after they badger you to death? First because it is not on the list so the mods do not sanction the troll for using it. Second they derail the thread and topic by birthering it to death with 3 4 5 and more posts on every page 10 20 30 pages or more. it has gotten out of control. its annoying and good posters who are trying to contribute to the quality of the site and just have some reasonable discussion can only take so much before they finally fire back . It detracts from the site and makes more work for the mods that alone is reason enough. There would be a lot less problems in the political forums if they cracked down on it and trolls knew they could not use it pure and simple!

I Used to really enjoy this site still do for the most part but I notice myself becoming more and more annoyed and having less enjoyable time here because of this and other things like it getting out of hand. I am sure others feel the same...

no way !

I want them around if Rubio gets the VP nod to see if they are outraged that both his parents are non-citizens so we can call the racists on the carpet and flog them accordingly

reply to post by hawkiye


Actually I have been post banned for doing exactly that. So take it from me, I speak from experience.

There is no justification for banning words. Racial slurs aren't tolerated which I agree with, but aside from that you have to be able to deal.

ETA personally I hasn't participated in a political forum thread on ATS for years. They are rediculous to the max and trying to get an opinion aired out in the open will get you verbally crucified. If you're experiences in the political forums leave a bad taste in your mouth, it might be time for a break.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
You could pick the most complementary term possible, and it would still sound derogatory when someone is dismissing the ridiculous claims. For example -- "It's typical of the smart ones to ignore the fact that Hawaii has officially confirmed Obama's birth certificate." It's not the term that's bothering you -- it's the rest of the sentence. Unfortunately that's free speech, and you can't ban it.

Baloney that is your opinion and you guys can't seem to express it without a derogatory label attached. I never said I can ban anything but ATS can and do ban what ever they want its a private board get over it.

i am just raising the issue they will do what ever they think is best.

how about we hang traitors and collaborators instead,,, seems that is the normal out come of such treason... looking at Paris the day the Germans left.... or Manila the day the Japanese left... hanging was a nicer way to go than being beat to death with ball ping hammers....

Originally posted by hawkiye

Baloney that is your opinion and you guys can't seem to express it without a derogatory label attached. I never said I can ban anything but ATS can and do ban what ever they want its a private board get over it.

It is a private board.

What makes you think you can dictate what the 3 amigos should or shouldn't ban? Pfft.

The only one that needs to get over anything, is you, hawkiye. It's just a word. Let it go, and leave the politics alone for a bit.