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posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by maxella1
 


I just want to promote discussion and debate and see what people think on this issue. I don't have a dog in this race.
That's absurd. You've done nothing here but ridicule the truther movement, and your feeble attempt to legitimize yourself is laughable. I'm a 'truther', you're a 'liar'. Plain and simple.




posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Letsroll911.org in concert with the webfairy have persoanlly destroyed the truth movement ( Congrats guys).

These people are responsible for Missile pods on flight 175 which really was a windowless fuel tanker that was really a hologram being projected that wasnt really there but added through cgi effects on tv live to their new attacks claiming it was space weapons, the towers were hollowed out prior, the people on the street were just actors, the FDNY was in on it, actors.


9/11 Hoax Management 47 Videos
9/11 Street Actors Guild 96 Videos
9/11 The Jumpers 41 Videos
9/11 The WTC Hollow Towers 16 Videos
9/11: Debris Investigation 28 Videos
Constructing the WTC Legend 15 Videos
FDNY 9/11 Firemans Hoax 38 Videos
Hollywood & 9/11 21 Vid


Letsroll911 is down at the moment but here is the author's other site philjayhan.com...

The perpetrator of 911 disinformation. Many of these disinfo theories were created with the help of Dylan Avery and the makers of Loose Change, Phil also funded Loose Change. They were very busy putting out theories that no truth group ever embraced and usually were met by angry debunking from the truth movement yet they pumped it out ignoring that their sensational theories were professionally debunked by the truth movement then , months later Popular Mechanic put out a hit piece on the 911 truth movement call debunking 911 Conspiracies that debunked only the theories provided by letsroll911 while linking his site in the magazine. Total hit and smear of the truth movement.


Heres the proof


They were also the creators of the Flight 93 shot down by the happy Hooligans.

The truth.

Controlled False Opposition since 2001
edit on 10-6-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-6-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-6-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)


When I posted this mrfixer you said it was cogent theory. This is the proof you asked for in your thread no?

Yes I have proven that elements in the u.s were involved in the cover up.



posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder

When I posted this mrfixer you said it was cogent theory. This is the proof you asked for in your thread no?

Yes I have proven that elements in the u.s were involved in the cover up.



Well, I haven't had time to research your theory in any depth, so I'll refrain from endorsing or condemning it, for the time being.



posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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2004: Another book is modified, and a philanthropist appears


February:

Phil Jayhan posts his "pod theory" on his web site (www.letsroll911.org). Jayhan believed that the airplane that crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center had a "pod" attached to it.
His pod theory was ridiculed by a lot of people because it was based on an interpretation of photos that did not have enough detail to see such an object clearly.


"In Plane Site" DVD
Dave von Kleist, the host of the radio show The Power Hour, released a video about 9/11 called In Plane Site. Phil Jayhan's pod theory was included in the video. This resulted in so many insults that von Kleist made a second version of his video without it, and with a few other corrections.


April:

The video Loose Change, by Dylan Avery, is released. Phil Jayhan (www.Letsroll911.org) helped provide financial support. Jayhan's pod theory was included in this video.
The second edition of the video "Loose Change" is released. It was produced by Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe, and Jason Bermas. Jayhan's pod theory was removed from this version. But Jayhan still funded it as well as Alex Jones.
When Jimmy Walter came forward to help promote Hufschmid's book, almost everybody in the 9/11 movement either ignored him, or tried to sabotage his efforts.

Instead of promoting Hufschmid's book or video, most of the 9/11 investigators promoted stupid theories, such as:

• A Maser weapon may have been used to destroy the World Trade Center towers. Jim Hoffman created this theory.
• Miniature hydrogen bombs brought the towers down.

• The airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center towers were holograms or blue screen illusions.

• The Vatican is behind the world's corruption. Greg Szymanski, Phil Jayhan, and Eric Jon Phelps are just three "truth seekers" who promote this theory.

• A mysterious group of Nazis or Satanists known as the New World Order or the Illuminati are trying to take over the planet. Alex Jones promotes this theory.


We know many of the criminals!

Everybody in this 9/11 movement needs to be investigated as a possible member of the criminal network. Nobody should be immune from investigation:
www.EricHufschmid.net/InvestigateTheTruthSeekers.htm

We especially need to keep our eye on the following people because are almost certain to be part of the criminal network:

Phil Berg, Mike Berger (and everybody else in 911truth.org), Bob Bowman, Gabriel Day, Professor James Fetzer and other founding members of Scholars For 9/11 Truth, Jim Hoffman and his girlfriend Victoria Ashley, Gerard Holmgren, Phil Jayhan, Alex Jones, Jeff King (aka plaguepuppy), Nicholas Levis, Wayne Madsen, Scott Makufka (aka Victor Thorn), Kurt Nimmo, Jenna Orkin, Lisa Pease, Eric Jon Phelps, Jeff Rense, Mike Ruppert, Karl Schwarz, Rick Siegel (911eyewitness.com), Greg Szymanski, Webster Tarpley, Frank Whalen (RBN radio host)
iamthewitness.com...



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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Oh I see this thread backfired on you. Judging by your posts you are one of those anti truthers who actually promote Dr judy woods energy weapons and claim it comes from truthers. You opened a thread asking for controlled op, Perp created websites and I did.

Mr fixer, are you connected to any of the names I mentioned above? What is you Jref user name?



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder


Some of these were funded by some people tied to the popular mechanic debunking 911 article.




Sorry, did I miss the evidence of the funding you were talking about Shadow?

Thanks



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

When I posted this mrfixer you said it was cogent theory. This is the proof you asked for in your thread no?

Yes I have proven that elements in the u.s were involved in the cover up.



Well, I haven't had time to research your theory in any depth, so I'll refrain from endorsing or condemning it, for the time being.


Normaly when you start a new thread you should try to answer people's questions. I'm still waiting from page one.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by BriGuyTM90
 


I am sorry to disappoint you, BriGuyTM90, but Dr. Woods is a disinfo agent too. She collected a good set of evidences for "dustification" indeed, and it brought her some followers, but then, to discredit the evidences, she gives an absurd explanation of what has caused it, like a mysterious effect of con-artist Hutchison. No wonder just few take her seriously.
The reason for the work of Dr. Woods is to discredit evidences for "dustification", that can be achieved without any fancy and non existent theory, but with the nuclear energy.
Also pay attention to the fact, that she can sell books, DVDs and propagate her theory in any way she likes. Which could not be possible in case if she were right about DEW.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by DrEugeneFixer
 


I liked the post, it made me smile

This is a classical disinformation that I would show to my students if I had any.

More and more people realize that something wrong with the Truth movement, it actually does not move and has not achieved any reasonable result. People have fair doubts, maybe it is because the movement is just a Controlled Opposition.
How would you try to negate the effect of such realization as perps?
First, think ahead admit the the problem and be the one who brings it up.
Second, lead away the suspicion from your main agents and blame real theories, mixed up some your agents.
This is what I see in the topic.

The controlled opposition is the most visible one, that functions without counteraction. That leads the masses. The main is the "nanothermite" theory, that is successfully debunked by the debunkers.
Also you need some specially tailored theories aimed to discredit the real ones: Dr. Woods with her mysterious DEW and Simon Shack with his "everything is fake" September clues.

One of the reason why the Truth movement failed is because they have come with wrong and debunkable theories. And this is the way Truth movement is designed. They think ahead, they knew people will have questions and their theories, so they gave us false theories and leaders. This is the most efficient way to stop the truth - mix it with lie and lead the movement.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Oh I see this thread backfired on you. Judging by your posts you are one of those anti truthers who actually promote Dr judy woods energy weapons and claim it comes from truthers. You opened a thread asking for controlled op, Perp created websites and I did.

Mr fixer, are you connected to any of the names I mentioned above? What is you Jref user name?


Well, I don't focus on Dr. Judy except to note that she must be the most ridiculous of the personalities with a book and a website on 9/11 truth.

I don't have a jref acct.

Thanks for your contributions, but I don't see how this thread backfired on me. I asked for people's opinions and ideas, and that's what I got.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1

Normaly when you start a new thread you should try to answer people's questions. I'm still waiting from page one.



Since you've asked no questions in this thread, I don't know what you're waiting for.

I've responded honestly and politely to everybody's posts.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer

Originally posted by maxella1

Normaly when you start a new thread you should try to answer people's questions. I'm still waiting from page one.



Since you've asked no questions in this thread, I don't know what you're waiting for.

I've responded honestly and politely to everybody's posts.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by maxella1


I know that you think truthers are all liars, I'm wondering what is a “truther” mission in your opinion?



No, I think a lot of truthers who post on this board are honestly convinced by what I consider bad arguments and evidence. Some are antagonistic trolls. Some are both.

Touche' so you did ask a question. I think it's a mixed bag what kind of mission 'truthers' are on. Some are cynical self promoters, some are true believers, and others honestly want to find the truth of what happened on 9/11. Some just like to argue on the internet.
edit on 6/12/2012 by DrEugeneFixer because: formatting



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by maxella1


I know that you think truthers are all liars, I'm wondering what is a “truther” mission in your opinion?



No, I think a lot of truthers who post on this board are honestly convinced by what I consider bad arguments and evidence. Some are antagonistic trolls. Some are both.

Touche' so you did ask a question. I think it's a mixed bag what kind of mission 'truthers' are on. Some are cynical self promoters, some are true believers, and others honestly want to find the truth of what happened on 9/11. Some just like to argue on the internet.
edit on 6/12/2012 by DrEugeneFixer because: formatting


You have been participating in the debates here for a while, what is in your opinion the strongest argument against the OS ?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by maxella1


You have been participating in the debates here for a while, what is in your opinion the strongest argument against the OS ?


If I may respond, I think it rather depends on what you think the "OS" is. The term is merely 9/11 debate shorthand for a huge mixture of reports and sources that don't always agree with each other.

A couple of small examples: most Truthers would consider anything that the FBI stated as part of the "OS". But they often enthusiastically cite the FBI's supposed material on Ted Olsen as authoritative. The MSM is considered to be axiomatically part of the OS but it doesn't always sing from the same hymn sheet - the Guardian newspaper in the UK has criticised several aspects of the Bush admin's account.

In a sense this gives the lie to the term. While it's often used as a necessary abbreviation, it also presupposes that a "story" is being spun in concert by all these "official" entities. And that presupposes a conspiracy. It's in essence a biased linguistic formation.

But if by the "OS" you mean the story that the Bush administration wanted you to believe, then I think my main suspicion lies with the cover up of intel failure, closely followed by the involvement of Saudi Arabian entities in the plot. And in third the - cover up is a strong word, but obscuring might be correct - of Israeli spying activity in the US.

For me none of these imply involvement by the US govt or Israel in 9/11. In fact in some ways they argue against it.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by TrickoftheShade
 


I agree with you up to this part..



For me none of these imply involvement by the US govt or Israel in 9/11. In fact in some ways they argue against it.


For me it hasn't been ruled out. Their involvement is very likely based on who benefited and who is covering up.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by maxella1
 


I wouldn't rule it out either. I just don't see any concrete evidence for it. The other stuff has plausible sources, but as soon as you try to find evidence for govt involvement there isn't any.

The reverse actually. Lots of evidence points to incompetence and a complete misunderstanding of the threat of islamic terrorism on the part of US authorities. I doubt they're clever and stupid at the same time.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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It's part of the delusion. Many theorists are perfectly rational people, that hold an alternate belief from the mainstream. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, there are some theorists that are either so paranoid, delusional, or simply have such an inflated belief in their own self importance that even other theorists are "disinfo" or "controlled opposition" and other nonsense.

These are the ones that call out anyone that has a differing opinion as a "shill" or whatever. I have always said I don't believe we know the whole truth, but outside of that I believe the basic outline of 9/11 as it happened. Someone wildly proclaiming no planes or holograms or any of that stupidity is simply delusional rather than a plant.



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by maxella1
 


I wouldn't rule it out either. I just don't see any concrete evidence for it. The other stuff has plausible sources, but as soon as you try to find evidence for govt involvement there isn't any.

The reverse actually. Lots of evidence points to incompetence and a complete misunderstanding of the threat of islamic terrorism on the part of US authorities. I doubt they're clever and stupid at the same time.


Could it be intentional incompetence?

For example... A guy goes to get new tires for his car, and the mechanic forgets to tighten the bolts on a front tire. On the way home the tire falls off and the guy dies. His wife collects life insurance. And later the repair shop fires a completely different mechanic for this screw up, and this guy goes to court to prove that it wasn't him who changed that tire, But the shop owner is unable to find the work order document which would show the name of the mechanic doing that repair, and blames it on a manager who by accident shredded all of the work orders from that day. But the owner assures the court that he has nothing to hide and it's all the fault of two incompetent morons who used to work for him.

Is it possible that the wife and the mechanic or the shop owner did this on purpose?

Or is it only incompetent mechanic screwing up?

What do you think?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by maxella1
 


I wouldn't rule it out either. I just don't see any concrete evidence for it. The other stuff has plausible sources, but as soon as you try to find evidence for govt involvement there isn't any.

The reverse actually. Lots of evidence points to incompetence and a complete misunderstanding of the threat of islamic terrorism on the part of US authorities. I doubt they're clever and stupid at the same time.


Could it be intentional incompetence?

For example... A guy goes to get new tires for his car, and the mechanic forgets to tighten the bolts on a front tire. On the way home the tire falls off and the guy dies. His wife collects life insurance. And later the repair shop fires a completely different mechanic for this screw up, and this guy goes to court to prove that it wasn't him who changed that tire, But the shop owner is unable to find the work order document which would show the name of the mechanic doing that repair, and blames it on a manager who by accident shredded all of the work orders from that day. But the owner assures the court that he has nothing to hide and it's all the fault of two incompetent morons who used to work for him.

Is it possible that the wife and the mechanic or the shop owner did this on purpose?

Or is it only incompetent mechanic screwing up?

What do you think?


I think that's a seriously tortured analogy. So much so that it bears no relevance to the situation.





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