Help me, ATS, you're my only hope :P

ok, so I won't bother explaining again my situation, you can read it here www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've had a chance to sleep on it now, I'm feeling very stupid and sorry. I'm at a wits end, I promised myself I wouldn't do this kind of thing again, excepting in an extreme circumstance, that circumstance is here and now. I've come on too strong and scared away and crushed something very delicate. I've been in worse spots before and somehow manage to rectify them, so I know it is possible. I believe this is worth it. I'm looking for advice, I'm looking for guidance. I'm looking for a guru skilled in the art of manipulating reality to achieve a desired outcome, if that is at all possible. I'm looking for a miracle I need help, I know that I lack the patience too let this play out slowly and give the needed time and space for this person to talk to me again. I'm looking for inspiration and I'm looking for hope. I'm looking for a someone with a similar story that turned out successful. Failing that, I'm looking for someone who's been here and hasn't been successful, and has then gone on to have the chance again with some else, if that is possible...

reply to post by Tasmanaut


One big problem with your OP! "MANIPULATE"! Manipulation especially in relationships may only be short lived at best!

First off, would you like to be manipulated?

Relationships are very difficult and you are reaking of desparation my friend! If it is meant to be, it will be. Losing what you think is your destiny, does not mean you deserve it or even need it!

The whole idea of you suggesting manipulating reality makes me wonder if perhaps maybe you have some issues that maybe you need to work out yourself, before you even think about having a relationship! In all honesty, I would really feel sorry for this woman if she fell for your desparate plan to get her.

I don't mean to be mean or come across like I dislike you, but you really need to step back, take a deep breath and discover who you really are before you get into ANY relationship.....

I wish you luck!

Respectfully, how old are you?

reply to post by seeker1963


I had a very calm and compossed view of things for a very long while. I didn't bother with any of this junk, because I know where it leads and it leads to this. I certainly don't mind what you said, I think its very accurate, however, meeting this person has really thrown a spanner in the works and messed up my little bit of internal peace. This is what its supposed to do, right? this is the powerful feeling people crave so much. I was semi-joking about the manipulating reality part, but really when it comes down to it, its about control and manipulation. As much as you can try to justify and water it down with reasoning, we want to have and to hold. I do firmly believe that in order to really reach the highest state of peace, this romantic 'love' stuff is a barrier and a trap. Its an attachment and a desire. However, I'm still quite young and I've decided to heck with it all, I'm going to try to live and I'm going to suffer through the pain it causes, I decided that before I went to meet her. I just wanted to experience the 'human condition' again, to remind myself what it was like. I've been here before, I was just beginning to doubt whether maybe I had forgotten what it was like, but nope... so far, It's exactly as could be expected. I don't seriously wish to put some black magic spell on her and control her, that being said, I know there are psychological 'tricks' that can be done in order to achieve a desired outcome. I despise such a thing, but heck I'm going all in here.... One last role of the dice. I may be young, but I'm old enough to know what this is. To answer your question, I would love to be manipulated... In some dark and twisted way that only a woman can

reply to post by smyleegrl


lets just say, early 20's. Yes, thats ridiculous. I was leonard cohen esque at the age of 13... its been a problem for me :p but that is who I am, intense and over the top, especially in these matters

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Please listen to Seeker.
That's really the best advice for YOU.
Not to mention this awesome girl, who doesn't need to be weighed down.
Her intentions were clear.

Originally posted by Tasmanaut
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

lets just say, early 20's. Yes, thats ridiculous. I was leonard cohen esque at the age of 13... its been a problem for me :p but that is who I am, intense and over the top, especially in these matters

I'm like that too. I'm a scorpio.. At some point you have to realize your energy is too much. It is unfair to put that much feeling on someone elses shoulders who doesn't even know you.

You gotta grow up. I'm not that old either. I have a succesful relationship now because I held back.

I left you a post in your other thread.

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Correct me if I am wrong...but I think that you are very young and inexperienced. I read your other thread and it seems to me that she just wanted to get laid that night...(a one night stand)...she saw that you had an immediate crush on her...so she went for it...she used you for sex.

Learn from this experience and know that it is better to get to know the woman first....as a friend....and then perhaps (later on) you may fall in love and then an intimate relationship will happen.

I know that this is tough for you to go through...and my heart goes out to you...but someday you will meet someone worthy of you...who will be your friend first.

reply to post by Dustytoad


her intentions maybe were clear to most people, for me there is always confusion. I cannot tell what is being infered, I cannot see the most obvious sometimes. I thought at least there would be more time for us to get to know each other, the way it was put to me seemed at least to be leading to a few awesome months of this cold winter

reply to post by Tasmanaut

I had a very calm and compossed view of things for a very long while. I didn't bother with any of this junk, because I know where it leads and it leads to this. I certainly don't mind what you said, I think its very accurate, however, meeting this person has really thrown a spanner in the works and messed up my little bit of internal peace. This is what its supposed to do, right? this is the powerful feeling people crave so much. I was semi-joking about the manipulating reality part, but really when it comes down to it, its about control and manipulation. As much as you can try to justify and water it down with reasoning, we want to have and to hold. I do firmly believe that in order to really reach the highest state of peace, this romantic 'love' stuff is a barrier and a trap. Its an attachment and a desire. However, I'm still quite young and I've decided to heck with it all, I'm going to try to live and I'm going to suffer through the pain it causes, I decided that before I went to meet her. I just wanted to experience the 'human condition' again, to remind myself what it was like. I've been here before, I was just beginning to doubt whether maybe I had forgotten what it was like, but nope... so far, It's exactly as could be expected. I don't seriously wish to put some black magic spell on her and control her, that being said, I know there are psychological 'tricks' that can be done in order to achieve a desired outcome. I despise such a thing, but heck I'm going all in here.... One last role of the dice. I may be young, but I'm old enough to know what this is. To answer your question, I would love to be manipulated... In some dark and twisted way that only a woman can

See that brother! You already knew the answer didn't you? I am 49 and been divorced twice my brother. Relationships come and go like the tides sometimes. No biggy, we pull up are shorts and move on don't we?

You just got me riled up with the manipulation thing and I have been on the receiving end of that, thus my maybe harsh response to your post.

No worries my friend, just always remember, we reap what we sow. We make mistakes and we must learn from them. My honest feeling is, you will learn from this and change your attitude and behavior towards women and some day you may just be lucky enough to find "the ONE".

reply to post by caladonea


yes, I fear you are right. This is why I was angry and upset at first... But still, I think there is something here, at least a great potential for it to be so. I courted a girl once for 5 years, tragically, and was rejected daily yes, I'm insane like that. I never gave up and eventually she confessed to me that there was something all along... didnt work out and that damaged me greatly at the time. However, this has taught me something dangerous. I read too much into things, which most people dismiss as delusional. But when you are eventually told that you were correct and all along through the denial you were right... This is dangerous. It leads to something like this, where you can persue a situation in the hope/belief you are on to something, or you may be completely wrong and a delusional crazy person. I know I am young, and I know how this sounds, but you cannot look me in the eye and tell me I don't know what love is, or what it means, or that I havent felt it before. I've lived a life already, though I may be young.

to add, I've been having vivid dreams for a while now... I don't know if you know the kind. You meet 'them' and its perfection, then you wake up and your actually truelly breaks that it was dream. I did think it was her I've been dreaming about. Perhaps prophetic, most likely just a subconscious archetypal metaphor about longing and loss.
I will win!

www.youtube.com...

Well, as an older woman, there are a few things that I picked up from reading your first thread about you and this "princess".

1. You are too quick to put a woman on a pedestal. You just met this woman, you don't really know her, and just because you spent a magical night together loaded and playing music and talking, does not a bond make.

2. You are way too quick to fall in what you consider love. Everybody's idea of love is different, but for most women, a guy who falls in love right away and confesses it is a turn-off, because we know that he doesn't see us as we are, but as he imagines us to be.

3. She admitted that she wasn't looking for a relationship. Obviously she just wanted some sex. Did you not take her at her word, or did you think that something magical would happen to make her change her mind?

4. Most women know that, a guy who falls in love too quickly will also fall out of love just as quick. It indicates emotional instability and that scares us, since we are usually the ones with the mood swings.

Considering that most women are looking for a stable relationship, I suspect that you may come on too strongly at first. Women want that love, but not right off the bat, because it doesn't make sense. You cannot rush love (although you can feel instantly infatuated).

My advice to you, young man, is to slow your roll....A LOT. Take the time to get to know somebody, and if you feel the overwhelming urge to say "I love you", bite your tongue and keep it to yourself. Most women want to be loved and appreciated for who they are, and there is no way on God's Green Earth that you can make a determination like that in one or two nights.

Bottom line: Slowly getting to know each other is best. Showing desperation and neediness will send women running as quickly as when women show it to men.

You may want to do some counseling to get at the root of why the need to live in a fantasy world of princesses, instant love, and happily ever after. Life isn't like that. Take your time, and always be a bit mysterious. A relationship is a journey of discovery, and if you pour it all on in one fell swoop, it is too overwhelming. Be cool, not a bubbling cauldron of intensity.

All the best in any case.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


1. yes, perhaps, why is this a bad thing? is this not the old fashioned idea of romace or is it dead? consider it exaggerated poetry if you will.

2. yes, I am deluded by what I imagine her to be. this is the natural course of action and the result of a biochemical response. its a messy business. I know that there is this delusion, and yet a greater bond beyond it. Like the kind of share with my best friend, a true love. I know this 'love' is illusion, but I just wanted a taste of it. Too quick is relative and subjective, thats how I am, and I don't think it is 'bad', rather, a bit out of place in todays world perhaps.

3. yes, she did tell me this before hand, but I then told her, thats not how I role and that this kind of thing means something to me. I felt as though she understood and returned the feeling, whether it was her initial intentior or not, she did feel something. This I know, or else I'm crazy.

4. yes, I'm a little unstable. But not, I do not snap out of it quickly. It took me many many years to get over the few experiences I have had, and that was a pretty crap time for my friends dealing with my constant need to talk about it.

I don't live in a fantasy world of princesses. I don't even believe that romantic 'love' is 'real'. I know it is an illusion and I've quite happilly lived without it for a very long time. I just saw a person I thought worthy dreaming a little dream with for a little while, as life is pretty short and I don't want to be 70 and say I've never really experienced much of it. It is the most wonderous feeling. I do agree with what you're saying, and Im sorry that I can't describe in words better than this. this is a bunch of hyperbole and exaggeration. What i'm asking for is some help here, to rescue this situation. I don't want to give up and let it go so easily when it could be such a wonderful dream

I appologise if I seem to be an a**h***, I'm trying to give myself a fair representation while also being honest about my shortcomings. I know where I fail, but I also know what my noble traits are.

Originally posted by Tasmanaut
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

her intentions maybe were clear to most people, for me there is always confusion. I cannot tell what is being infered, I cannot see the most obvious sometimes. I thought at least there would be more time for us to get to know each other, the way it was put to me seemed at least to be leading to a few awesome months of this cold winter

I understand that. I see.

ok so... In conclusion... She answered my phone call today, I tried to remain steely calm and get the answers I was seeking. I got them. Yes, it was her intention all along to have a one night stand. Apparently I was 'too sweet' to be honest with so as not to hurt me... It hurts less knowing that, if she had of said that all along, I would have drank less and 'functioned' better, not bothered with romance and opening up. Putting that together with some other bits of information; she told me jeff buckley was with janis joplin, that she had read led zepplin's book that 'he' wrote, that she loved folk music yet only seemed to know one genuine traditional song... The whole thing was a charade, an act, to pander to what she thought would make me happy and to fulfil her desire of getting someone in her bed. It could have been anyone and it meant nothing. It's embarrassing for me, but at least I know I didn't really do anything wrong. On the phone she asked if I was previously a virgin, I lied and said yes... she guffawed at that. That tells me everything I needed to know. All this wasted sleep and thought power on some stupid fake a** girl... I really must have been 'blind' :p

reply to post by Tasmanaut


My guess is you're a pretty young guy...college age, maybe late high school?

So, you and a gal got drunk, did the nasty, and maybe she isn't really that into you (or she's just into casual sex).

Get over it man! (and just be happy you got some).... I know how this is...I remember it all too well. It's so easy to let our minds run away with things, over-analyze, etc. I'll bet you already envisioned having kids with this woman... I'm just here to tell you. 1) We've all been there. 2) You have PLENTY of time to find Mrs. Right. 3) In the meantime, it's fun to look for Ms. Right Now instead. 4) The "friend" zone sucks, but it can also be invaluable to have a female friend for her input into her mysterious sex.

No need to pine for what isn't going to happen (or worse, try and manipulate something into happening). My bet is you are literally SURROUNDED by gals your age all day...try and play the field a bit. It isn't the last or only time you're going to get burned...I'll be honest with you...but so what? Buck up and get back on the horse man! (at least it's a fun ride before you get bucked off...)

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Hello again.

Touching on what "seeker" said earlier regarding manipulation...I think those with little or no self control may try to manipulate the world around them to make it fit the life they want. Not good and interferes with a natural flow.

Those with self control can manipulate themselves to fit the (outside) world instead. This causes less friction and leads to greater understanding through acceptance of one's self and others. Compromise.

Contol yourself first or you will always be part of the problem. When you "feel" a little wisdom, you know you're on the right track.

Cheers.

I am not surrounded by girls. I live alone in a small village. Yes, I'm young, I keep hearing that. I cannot prove my subjective experience to you. I've known what love is from a very early age. I developed in this way about 10-20 years earlier than normal. This is what I believe. One should not assume that just because they are older, they are necessarily wiser. Yes, in some ways I am very under-developed. I lack a ballance of maturity. I'll get over it, sure. If you lived here, you may understand

reply to post by Tasmanaut

This is what I believe. One should not assume that just because they are older, they are necessarily wiser.

It's not wisdom...or at least, not how you think.

No, it's life experience...having been through that hormonal time, and now being able to reflect back on it with experience. Perhaps that's the definition of wisdom...maybe not...but it is the reason why people will keep pointing out your age.

Answer me this...

How else do you think I knew your relative age? Easy, been there, done that.
Is anything I said untrue? Are any of my suppositions way off base? (and I bet you're surrounded by more girls than you think...small village eh? Even better odds).

Sounds like people are giving you good advice. I know you are tired of hearing "you're young", but there's a reason it's being said. Years from now, you're going to look back on that night and go, "Man, did I dodge a bullet..." (but it was fun, hehe...). The best part is...doesn't even matter if you believe me or not. Years from now, you'll learn it for yourself...we're just trying to give you the heads up...

If you lived here, you may understand

I've lived in many, many places...and all while I was growing up. I NEVER saw location as a factor for being a young man dealing with girl troubles. Whether a young boy in Alaska or Saudi Arabia...girl troubles are all the same. Maybe some regional things, but for the most part, it's universal....

I am broken. I can never experience a healthy relationship, as all previous experiences lead me to acting a certain way and dumping it all on whoever I meet. I can't even talk to people. I find women repulsive and stupid, exactly how they must view me. The advice I've received, while useful and well intentioned, is something I cannot follow. I sabotage myself from enjoying this life. I burn all my bridges, when there is uncertainty, I will force a conclusion. I make damn sure that in the end, there can be no doubt as to who is at fault.

Originally posted by Tasmanaut
I am broken. I can never experience a healthy relationship, as all previous experiences lead me to acting a certain way and dumping it all on whoever I meet. I can't even talk to people. I find women repulsive and stupid, exactly how they must view me. The advice I've received, while useful and well intentioned, is something I cannot follow. I sabotage myself from enjoying this life. I burn all my bridges, when there is uncertainty, I will force a conclusion. I make damn sure that in the end, there can be no doubt as to who is at fault.

That's odd, because you left ME wondering who you feel is at fault.

All the advice I've seen given I can agree with, and so should you really. So you like to project where a relationship will end before it even started. You've got a poets heart. I understand. Meet yourself halfway though. Keep the end result of your relationship in the back of your mind while slowly nurturing it. If romance is the way you want to go, that's fine. It would be good to see more people practicing romance. It's getting to be a dying art form.

The most important thing though is find someone who is on the same page as you are. You need someone with a romantic heart like yours. Or at the very least, a woman who understands and respects that quality. Don't fall in love with someone whom you want to spend the rest of your life with when all she wants is one night in the sack. She told you that to begin with, but you still went along with what YOU wanted. That's not having a relationship. That's wanting things the way YOU want them.

I also don't know why you would beat yourself up over the fact that you got laid. Why make something that feels good into something that's bad? You're not religious are you? The bottom line is that you're not going to find Mrs Right by doing what you did in that other post of yours that you linked. My advice is to go to coffee/art shops, libraries, book stores, poetry readings or folk music concerts/gatherings. It sounds to me like the woman you need to be with will be in places like that.

This song might not be your style, but the message is perfectly clear.
( It works best with a little Mary Jane on the side......trust me)