Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by RicoMarston
i see no evidence of an unseen hand guiding things.

Can you see the source of your own thoughts?

If not, then isn't your thoughts from an unseen source?

What causes them?

Can you even name the source without first having the thought of it's name?

I never understood that. If you cant see where your own thoughts come from then it must be coming from an all mighty being. That just seems to continent to give God credit for that. Everything that you can not witness sensually can not always fall to God.

Originally posted by Sol23
I never understood that. If you cant see where your own thoughts come from then it must be coming from an all mighty being. That just seems to continent to give God credit for that. Everything that you can not witness sensually can not always fall to God.

Everything IS God.

Anything less than everything is an Idol.

I love religous people. They speak in riddle as to not trully make a statement. As we know, statements mean you know something, these people side step question and replace it with rhetoric. The whole "death is just the change of garment" is a grand idea, however, unless you die, you don't know. So don't claim you do.

Hell, I've even had a NDE and beleive me, it made me think of the possibility of life after death, but I havent fully died and thus, can't confirm this. Is it forever after I die that those colors, fractals and "entities" continue, or is it just my brain doing its final shutdown then-darkness?

I dont know, you dont know. Lets all just chill and relax about it. Life is great, enjoy it the way you see fit, but dont push belief onto other peoples. Just live and let live.

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by Sol23
I never understood that. If you cant see where your own thoughts come from then it must be coming from an all mighty being. That just seems to continent to give God credit for that. Everything that you can not witness sensually can not always fall to God.

Everything IS God.

Anything less than everything is an Idol.

So everything the human race ever discovered is invalid and should be considered Gods doing that we found it in the first place.

I have absolutely nothing against the belief in God but I do not think everything is caused by him. There is always a human factor that should be accounted for. Yes I believe every action has a reaction but I do not believe that God puts all of those actions into motion in order to see the reaction that plays out.

Originally posted by Sol23
There is always a human factor that should be accounted for.

I would love to consider this human factor.

Could you please articulate clearly what it is to be human in a way that all 7 billion plus "humans" on the planet would agree?

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by Sol23
There is always a human factor that should be accounted for.

I would love to consider this human factor.

Could you please articulate clearly what it is to be human in a way that all 7 billion plus "humans" on the planet would agree?

What it is to be human is not 1 answer. It is like asking the meaning of life.

By human factor I mean when a person drinks alot they become impaired. When they become impaired they make decisions they normally would not. in turn they decide to drive which leads to them hitting and killing someone.

You will have people who say it must have been time for that person to die and that God called them up to heaven.

Can it not just be that it was human error that caused a chain reaction of events that lead to a tragic end?

Originally posted by AaronWilson
Its what makes our neocortex dominated brain the most powerful in the world. We have choice, something most animals do not. Concious choice.

I have never been any other animal, thus I do not know that they do not contemplate choices. Have you personally been something other than yourself that you would know they do not have choices to contemplate?

Originally posted by AaronWilson
I can choose not to beleive in god and poof, god does not exist. I can choose to beleive in the government, poof, my beleif in the government increases.

God is just a word. You can believe that what the word represents does not exist. You can even give it a new word to label it to justify your own disbelief.

However you still cannot name that which is the source of the names you give it. It comes before the WORD.

From it the WORD comes forth.

Denying it does not make it go away.

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost
I have never been any other animal, thus I do not know that they do not contemplate choices. Have you personally been something other than yourself that you would know they do not have choices to contemplate?

Science studies animals to see if they can make choices by setting up experiments.

Originally posted by Sol23
What it is to be human is not 1 answer. It is like asking the meaning of life.

By human factor I mean when a person drinks alot they become impaired. When they become impaired they make decisions they normally would not. in turn they decide to drive which leads to them hitting and killing someone.

You will have people who say it must have been time for that person to die and that God called them up to heaven.

Can it not just be that it was human error that caused a chain reaction of events that lead to a tragic end?

edit on 9-6-2012 by Sol23 because: (no reason given)

So, where did the desire come from to drink?

The same place your desire to converse with me comes from.

Are you responsible for the consequences of this conversation?

Originally posted by Sol23
Science studies animals to see if they can make choices by setting up experiments.

Science does nothing.

Humans study using a scientific method to arrive at conclusions.

Conclusions that despite the rigors of the scientific method, are constantly revised as new information comes available.

Now regardless of what anyone may have learned in this manner, they still do not KNOW how any other living thing thinks.

One can only know themselves.

And, make guesses about everything else.

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by Sol23
What it is to be human is not 1 answer. It is like asking the meaning of life.

By human factor I mean when a person drinks alot they become impaired. When they become impaired they make decisions they normally would not. in turn they decide to drive which leads to them hitting and killing someone.

You will have people who say it must have been time for that person to die and that God called them up to heaven.

Can it not just be that it was human error that caused a chain reaction of events that lead to a tragic end?

edit on 9-6-2012 by Sol23 because: (no reason given)

So, where did the desire come from to drink?

The same place your desire to converse with me comes from.

Are you responsible for the consequences of this conversation?

The desire to drink comes from another action. Everything is a chain reaction with no end domino in sight. Maybe the person had a bad day. They still had the choice of what to do. So does them choosing the wrong choice the one that ends in tragedy make it the devils work?

The desire to converse with you come from the fact that I wanted to debate with you. There was no force that told me to click the reply button.

Yes I am responsible for the consequences of this conversations. Because I am a human being who makes rational decisions.

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by Sol23
What it is to be human is not 1 answer. It is like asking the meaning of life.

By human factor I mean when a person drinks alot they become impaired. When they become impaired they make decisions they normally would not. in turn they decide to drive which leads to them hitting and killing someone.

You will have people who say it must have been time for that person to die and that God called them up to heaven.

Can it not just be that it was human error that caused a chain reaction of events that lead to a tragic end?

edit on 9-6-2012 by Sol23 because: (no reason given)

So, where did the desire come from to drink?

The same place your desire to converse with me comes from.

Are you responsible for the consequences of this conversation?

Look at what he says from a different perspective. All this was written to take place, the desires. It is not an ongoing action all the time from God as some may draw the conclusion from the post. But, man can choose which path to go down, the choices so to speak. But, the end result death, life, pregnancy, etc. is all known and preordained by God. Man coins the attributes of God and so many miss the mark.

Originally posted by Sol23
The desire to drink comes from another action. Everything is a chain reaction with no end domino in sight. Maybe the person had a bad day. They still had the choice of what to do. So does them choosing the wrong choice the one that ends in tragedy make it the devils work?

How do you prove someone had a choice? There is the thought that we have choice, but there is no evidence of a choice. What ever path one takes, it could be argued that that is the path they were supposed to take. The choice is merely commentary on the upcoming action.

Do you stop and think about every single movement you make? Have decided to have your heart beat, to take a breath, to type? What within you is driving these things, even the desire to contemplate choices where normally you do not?

Originally posted by Sol23
The desire to converse with you come from the fact that I wanted to debate with you. There was no force that told me to click the reply button.

That desire IS a force. It guides your flesh to hit the reply button or not. Where does the desire to come from?

What is it's previous link in the chain of events?

Of course these chain of events go back to the beginning of time itself!

Had I not been born, we would not have this conversation.

Had my mother and father not been born, I would not.

Had their parents, they would not.

All the way back to the very beginning of existence itself.

Originally posted by Sol23
Yes I am responsible for the consequences of this conversations. Because I am a human being who makes rational decisions.

Still, we have yet to define what it is to be Human...

Originally posted by jiggerj
Do we have to respect the rights of people that wish to remain uneducated, uninformed, and just downright stupid? Do we have to respect those that are naive to the point of sounding brain damaged?

We do not have to perse. However, I will respect you nonetheless.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Why is it not okay to say, "Hey, wake up! You are spreading misinformation and contributing to the dumbing down of humanity!"?

Because you would not believe me!

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by jiggerj
Do we have to respect the rights of people that wish to remain uneducated, uninformed, and just downright stupid? Do we have to respect those that are naive to the point of sounding brain damaged?

We do not have to perse. However, I will respect you nonetheless.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Why is it not okay to say, "Hey, wake up! You are spreading misinformation and contributing to the dumbing down of humanity!"?

Because you would not believe me!

Have to admit you made me laugh. Now use that quick mind of yours to come back to reality!

Originally posted by jiggerj
Have to admit you made me laugh. Now use that quick mind of yours to come back to reality!

Thank you for seeing the intended humor.

Now to come back to reality.

Please describe it in a way that I will find it.

Originally posted by TheHolyGhost

Originally posted by jiggerj
Have to admit you made me laugh. Now use that quick mind of yours to come back to reality!

Thank you for seeing the intended humor.

Now to come back to reality.

Please describe it in a way that I will find it.

No magic. The events in our lives are our own doing. No great and powerful puppet master is pulling our strings. All the religions throughout history has not held back man's instincts for war and destruction. We are what we are, and no more.

Think about it: Religions (and whatever gods apply) have had over 5000 YEARS to scrape the greed and lust and murderous intent from us. In internet terms I believe this is called: FAIL!