No person in their right mind would admit the U.S. does bad things.

As for Australia, the same goes for them and Britian, France, Russia, Germany, China, North Korea, Afganistan, and all the others.

"Everything is a question of time." This quote is the only quote that solves anything.

See to your problems and we'll see to ours. - Every countries moto, when it comes to Foreign Affair.

For all those who don't like the US. Its your oppinion.

But to ask us to admit that we have done wrong, HA, I laugh, when was the last time you saw a world leader tell his country men, "I will do what's best for others and not for you".

Think before you say, I would say.

What is your problem with the US? Anyone can leave if they dislike.. so why complain?

FUKING SH|T GOD DAMN IT!

I want to direct everyone's attention to my last post which was quoted by Cold Anger, where I said:

"The politicians were right in not listening to the Majority."

I MEANT:

THE MINORITY!

That error really pisses me off.

As anyone who knows me, I have plans to maybe one day write a book called "Minority Rule". It basically would cover the effect that the Media has on political decisions by only showing the Minority opinions.

So far Minority rule has done the following:

Increased taxes

Made it illegal to say "God" in school, regardless of content.

Enforced Handgun laws...

And many many more.

This is why I despise "Minority Rule" which is where the only ones heard by the politicians are the minority, and so 10% of the people (blacks, gays, feminists) become a stronger factor in the opperaton of the government than does the common everyday person.

Now today it isn't a BIG issue. But today has shown it is becomming that way.

75% of Americans WANTED A WAR WITH IRAQ, and the other 25% almost ruined that.

My corrected quote would say this:

"I think the politicians did the right things by not listening to the Minority".

I praise Bush's regiem for both listening to the Majority, and not Listening to the UN.

Sorry for this AWEFUL confusion.

HKoT,
you're mistaken. A large Majority of americans comdemned War without UN backing !


That's why the scoundrel administration started criticising Blix and lying in public about "hard WMD evidence that cant be disclosed", remember ?


[Edited on 30-4-2003 by Maxwell Smart]

LoL you're pretty mistaken about that.

Even as we were going ahead without UN backing those 75/25 ratios still stood. Most Americans aren't so stupid that they believe the UN is "right".

But most Americans would say it'd be best if the UN backed us...but that's not the same thing as you're trying to say.

Nice try though.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
a little detail for all those who are still thinking that WMD used by america was for the good...

You have such an aggressive way to fix problems that
is not gonna be something for good...

“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.”
Julius Caesar (although doubted by many - an accurate portrayal nevertheless!)

What? I think that history has proven me right so far. And as time goes along, I think that we'll learn even more about the shame of France, Germany and Russia in regards to Iraq, we'll learn even more of the horrors of the Husseiny torture chambers and we'll hopefully get the CBR weapons out of the Euphrates before they leak into the water and create an unholy eco-catastrophe.

If that attempt to quote Ceasar was aimed at me and you are attempting to make that particular shoe fit my foot, it doesn't. I am not blindly antionalistic, I am merely sober enough to recognize danger before it strikes. As long as our leaders have to abide by the constitution closely enough so as not to wake up the majority of the populace, the world need not fear us. If they ever decide to act in a totally tyrannical manner where the average Joe-6pack wakes up and notices it, no problem, the Founding Fathers thought of a remedy for that as well. It's called the 2nd amendment. No sane government based on the free enterprise system would risk having its most important resource destroyed over foolishness. The worker is its most important resource. The free enterprise system is all about creating wealth, and that, my friend, is the one thing our politicians, both dems and reps, understand.

Sorry it took so long to respond. I get lost in all these forums and threads.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
a little detail for all those who are still thinking that WMD used by america was for the good...

You have such an aggressive way to fix problems that
is not gonna be something for good...

“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.”
Julius Caesar (although doubted by many - an accurate portrayal nevertheless!)

What? I think that history has proven me right so far. And as time goes along, I think that we'll learn even more about the shame of France, Germany and Russia in regards to Iraq, we'll learn even more of the horrors of the Husseiny torture chambers and we'll hopefully get the CBR weapons out of the Euphrates before they leak into the water and create an unholy eco-catastrophe.

If that attempt to quote Ceasar was aimed at me and you are attempting to make that particular shoe fit my foot, it doesn't. I am not blindly antionalistic, I am merely sober enough to recognize danger before it strikes. As long as our leaders have to abide by the constitution closely enough so as not to wake up the majority of the populace, the world need not fear us. If they ever decide to act in a totally tyrannical manner where the average Joe-6pack wakes up and notices it, no problem, the Founding Fathers thought of a remedy for that as well. It's called the 2nd amendment. No sane government based on the free enterprise system would risk having its most important resource destroyed over foolishness. The worker is its most important resource. The free enterprise system is all about creating wealth, and that, my friend, is the one thing our politicians, both dems and reps, understand.

Sorry it took so long to respond. I get lost in all these forums and threads.

Well TC, i gotta tell ya, that i canīt try to explain it anymore, because as i said too many times, itīs very easy to say france, and germany, blame and blame and blame, France says, america says... But the ppl is just being redirected to a planned direction...
I do not understand 1 single thing, why 1 country has to be the right one? There is no right in individuality, that is for sure, what politicians and leaders are doing, are separating the people by politics, ideals, and nacionalism, democracy, republicans, liberals, greens, whatever, itīs all made for confusion, who is upstairs knows how to handle a country (OR DO U REALLY THINK THAT EACH 4-8 YEARS THE GOVERMENT OF AN ENTIRE COUNTRY OF CENTURIES CHANGES????) NO WAY!!!
It has the same bases, how can a liberal, and then a republican come and stills being the same kind of crap anyway?? What kind of politics are based on campaings of millions of $ for get enough ppl voting??? Only wealth is able to get vote? get real TC, we ppl in europe america, asia, australia and africa should understand that the goverment is just playing with us, now thanks to the media americans are hating french ppl more than ever, and other way around, and in the end u got the same ppl in both side, kind ppl that just wants a nice life, respect for everyone and a minium of rights to live properly, that should be what we aim for, not for being correct and create enemies to be correct...
I just donīt get why u need to go to their side, while is obvious that they donīt care about ppl, they show the do, but is just a show, reality is something different, as always poor ppl, kind ppl, and innocent ppl are getting the worst part, and u still try to defend the tyranny or try to find a logica?? what do u think itīs gonna happend after all those war against "terror" would u live in a better world? i donīt think so, it will get worst, no privacy, (thx to Ashchroft and many more), Spy in population like never before, police state military state....
Etc etc etc, i am just trying to say TC that NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS RIGHT, AND NO POLITICS NEITHER, ppl dies starving or being assesinated, iīve seen so much bad things in africa already that i canīt forget that and everyday i remember stills there the same situation... Do u know for example that in Congo stills a war that has been going on for years and already 4.4 million people died? maybe not, Media doesnīt talk about real unjustice, just when wants the ppl to react like they want them to...

I wanted to live in a better world, where is not needed to aim with a M4a1 to someone to make him understand, or just obligate ppl without getting their agreement....
We all want to live in peace, no problems, no cries, no suffering... But like that is getting just worst, and try to understand what the animals are doing is just insane, hope this one clarifies my real meaning in this matter during all the time...

By far CoLD it is deffinetly. I for one have agreed with you on no one occasion.

How can you guys basically blame the US for causing most of the choas in the world in the beginning of the thread then segway to the default,"It's not ALL the people JUST most" arguement? You fellas are about the closest thing to closet Marxist's that I have seen in a while. You know what, it doesn't work, get over it. People are animalistic in nature, conflict is a part of our genetic fiber and even if the bastard US was gone, there would still be wars! It just can't be prevented, we have no evolved out of this face of aggression yet, so the "Spiritual and peaceful" life you covet will not exist in your lifetime unless you can manipulate DNA and basic human aggression.

Now on the point of war mongers:

If you have studied history then you would probably be aware of the fact that Europeans and the Middle East are the DIRECT cause of about 95% of all armed conflicts in the world going back to, oh I don't know, 2000 bc. Maybe America does want to push it's way of life of 3rd world countries and will resort to force if need be, but I would MUCH rather deal with a US controlled Iraq then an EU or UN controlled or free Iraq, for the simple fact that the UN and Europe have a history of not being able to control thier colonies or "Projects" and by default the average Middle Eastern Leader couldn't manage his sock drawer, must less a country.

Let's look at the Europeans for a minute, remember when they controlled or assisted the following countries:

Haiti
America
Eqypt
China
Mexico


All seemed to thrive without the control of Europe and Improved thier lifestyles when the US got involved regardless if they liked us or not.

Need I say more?

That really is a load of uninformed claptrap.

95% of wars since 0AD. So where are our records of wars in Africa and America between 0AD and 1500AD? Honestly, that's the most un-proveable claim I've seen in days.

And I like the way that anyone who's anti-war, or who questions the US government, is suddenly a marxist. That's half the problem! You've got to hold your government responsible. Just assuming that whatever the US does is the right thing to do is naive.

As far as your list of countries go, didn't Haiti suffer a massive increase in human rights abuse (from the government) when the US got involved? When was China a colony? How come the US weren't doing well as a colony? I thought you had a nice headstart. Certainly enough of a headstart to kick the sh!t (and nick bits) out of Mexico...

Who taught you history?

Originally posted by Shining Wizard
How can you guys basically blame the US for causing most of the chaos in the world in the beginning of the thread then segway to the default,"It's not ALL the people JUST most" arguement?

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS RIGHT, AND NO POLITICS EITHER!

Ok, now thatīs clear what kind of BS, are u talking about??? so now u blame the rest of the world, congrats, and then? donīt say that US is doing better, because as i stayed none of them are right, and we pay always their mistakes (maybe it wasnīt mistake) anyway, try to face this!!! I was talking not only about US, i said the entire world, but u just try to get out blaming the rest, how can u blame someone now of something that happend 2.000 years ago?, u canīt
the ppl responsable for that died, and there is new responsables for it... So please donīt see US as the "liberator of the tyranny" because all countries here are bad....
I hope is clear now what i pointed out

hkot, i dont have an argument so why would i need to rethink it? i posted for discussion, obviouslly some nerds with think i posted as im anti-american but i was just posting facts (according to friends and internet). people seem to take this too serioussly. this is a discussion channel where, instead of people telling others that there reply was BS, you discuss.

every country has secrets it doesnt want its citizens to know. the US is so succesful, that what its portrayed as in patriotic newspapers cant be true without a grim background.

i suggest more opinions/sources of information and less retardness/childishness

It makes sense to defend ones country so, in reallity their will never be winners.

But you can try

Originally posted by JCDenton
hkot, i dont have an argument so why would i need to rethink it? i posted for discussion, obviouslly some nerds with think i posted as im anti-american but i was just posting facts (according to friends and internet). people seem to take this too serioussly. this is a discussion channel where, instead of people telling others that there reply was BS, you discuss.

every country has secrets it doesnt want its citizens to know. the US is so succesful, that what its portrayed as in patriotic newspapers cant be true without a grim background.

i suggest more opinions/sources of information and less retardness/childishness

Listen, no more arguing. 95% of us in here, when we post something, wether it's cut and pasted or copied from a website, we put the sourse. It is ok to say that you made a mistake. Everyone does.

there was no mistake, the source was email and ive said that many times

Originally posted by HKoT

This is why I despise "Minority Rule" which is where the only ones heard by the politicians are the minority, and so 10% of the people (blacks, gays, feminists) become a stronger factor in the opperaton of the government than does the common everyday person.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, man.

Cold Anger, in response to your long response to me, I fully understand where you are coming from and I agree with what you are saying to a degree. But that blanket argument, while covers some things does not cover everything and you should understand that. The specifics are still the same.

I would like to take the time to answer a couple of you questions, though.

Every four to eight years we do not change governments, we change administrations along with some of the legislative members. Our government does not change. Procedure remains the same.

Why does nothing seem to happen whether or not a conservative or a liberal is in power? I assume you mean to the point where that particular group is happy? That's simple, because the politician's most basic instinct tells him not to do too awfully much and thereby alienate constituants. His main goal is to get reelected, not have to do any personal work and live on the money earned and contributed by others.

Your pledge is that in fact, america's political system isnt a democracy, but a plutocracy (where policy is designed by the wealthy). You don't happen advocate a socialist revolution or something, do you ?

Originally posted by JCDenton
there was no mistake, the source was email and ive said that many times

Yes we understand that you got it from a mate. I get Porno from mates too. Were did your mate get it from? Talk about spoon fed!