Capitalism Has Failed Us.

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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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"Five men can produce bread for a thousand. One man can produce cotton cloth for two hundred and fifty people, woolens for three hundred, and boots and shoes for a thousand. One would conclude from this that under a capable management of society modern civilized man would be a great deal better off than the cave-man. But is he? Let us see. In the United States to-day there are fifteen million people living in poverty; and by poverty is meant that condition in life in which, through lack of food and adequate shelter, the mere standard of working efficiency cannot be maintained."

“No other conclusion is possible than that the capitalist class has mismanaged, that you have mismanaged, my masters, that you have criminally and selfishly mismanaged…You have failed in your management. You have made a shambles of civilization. You have been blind and greedy.”

-Ernest Everhard 'The Iron Heel'- Jack London

Jack London wrote 'The Iron Heel' in 1908. It was the first 'dystopian novel' and was written 40 years before Orwell wrote 1984. It was obviously clear that capitalism was unsustainable over one hundred years ago in 1908. The mega-rich have criminally and selfishly mismanaged our taxdollars and our society. The robber baron corporatists, banksters and mega-rich have taken so much from society and given back so little. The mega-rich have put such a strain on society that the entire western world now faces the grim reality of a future of brutal Austerity and a lower standard of living. Civilization is a shambles when the mega-rich live like gods while half of the population of the worlds wealthy superpower, the United States, survives on 'food stamps'.

The 'advanced' western nations have exploited the 'developing' nations under global imperial capitalism a great deal since WW2. Now that the 'emerging' nations are starting to beat the 'advanced' nations at their own game, the 'advanced' nations are looking to exploit their own people. Austerity on middle/low socio economic individuals and families is not the solution. The middle class is the engine of any economy, not the robber baron 'job creators'.

Government waste, government incompetence, government productivity and government accountabilty should all be a focus. Western Governments are doing an abysmal job of running our economies. We can all run a budget. Why cant our governments? They waste on themselves. They waste on their mega-rich backers. They waste on band aid solutions. They waste on crowd pleaser, short gain policy. They waste on counter productive policy. All western governments can make cuts and be more efficient before attacking the poor and middle class.

The poor, the middle class and the wealthy have not put a strain on society or created the current conditions where we are on the brink of another GFC. The mega-rich and the corporatists are to blame. The entire western world could end up just like Greece. We face losing the gains that we have made and going backwards. The mega-rich have created the mess, not the middle class workers. The mega-rich want to lower living conditions for the rest of us so they can continue to live like gods.

We need Austerity for the mega-rich We need to take back our governments from incompetent duopolist corporatist politicians.

Jack Londons 'The Iron Heel' is an awesome book. The book is about the unsustainabilty of capitalism but it is also about how corporations or 'monopoly trusts' dominate and exploit the people. The book was written 100 years ago but the themes are more relevant today than when it was written.
www.online-literature.com...

Jack London was right. Capitalism did fail us.



The Oligarchy are the largest monopoly trusts (or robber barons) who manage to squeeze out the middle class by bankrupting most small to mid-sized business as well as reducing all farmers to effective serfdom. This Oligarchy maintains power through a "labor caste" and the Mercenaries



This would precipitate a brutal counter-reaction, with capitalists preserving their power by discarding democracy and instituting a brutal repressive regime. Although this exact scenario never came to pass in the US, where the Socialist Party remained small and marginal, events closely followed London's script elsewhere – for example in Chile in 1973, where the government of Socialist president Salvador Allende was overthrown by a CIA backed coup and forces led by General Augusto Pinochet, prompting later publishers of London's book to use a cover illustration depicting a poster of Allende being ground beneath the heel of a boot.

en.wikipedia.org...


The Iron Heel is a great book. Jack London was a great socialist. Londons brand of socialism is on display in the book and its the kind I like. Logical,sensible socialism. Many of todays socialists are just liberals. Socialism is not liberalism. Socialism is strong. Socialism is realistic. Socialism is logical. Socialism is efficient. Socialism is fair. Socialism is the solution.
edit on 8-6-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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They have intentionally screwed the system up so bad, that bad alternatives are starting to look good.

Its not about Capitalism, its the entities that exist under it have manipulated the system to their maximum advantage.

Its the lobbying power of money that has caused this.

Again people forget we wouldn't have all the advantages we do if not for Capitalism, its when the Government is Controlled by the ones who have flourished under it that the problems start.

But greed and power go hand in hand, every system has its problems.
edit on 8-6-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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The op will not realize that.

He wants a resource based economy. that would slow down human advancement greatly. there would be less initiative to create and advance simply due to the lack of gain.

op...you are a fool.

Also never bring up feudal japan ever again in any of your posts.I will verbally destroy you with facts.

If your wondering why i brought up feudal japan. He mentioned it in another post of the same subject
edit on 8-6-2012 by BulletShogun because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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Great thread OP!


reply to post by benrl
 


But capitalism is what allows people to manipulate the economy, and politics.

What do you propose to stop capitalists from being corrupt? More government intervention? Problem is the government is controlled by capitalists, simply because they have the economic power to do so. We have capitalists as presidents.

Capitalism was a corrupt system from the start. The system was set up simply so the lucky owners of capital, originally land, could use that capital to exploit labour to make themselves more wealthy. It puts mass wealth in the hands of a minority class, who use that wealth to manipulate society, and the majority, to their benefit.
This is why we have a class system in the first place.

Even if it is ran 100%, as you think it should be, it is still exploitation of labour. It is still a system that takes the 'surplus value' (what is left after wages and overheads, profit) and uses that for their own personal benefit.

There is no morality in capitalism, only the desire to make profit.

The biggest problem with it is the monopoly capitalists have on production. They monopolize production, create artificial scarcity by under-producing, and remove their contribution to society when they stop making profit. The wealth of the capitalist class increases, while the wealth of the majority stagnates or decreases.

With socialism, the workers ownership of the means of production, we would be able to produce for our needs. Poverty is a lack of the ability to access resources, it's not a lack of money. Capitalism creates artificial scarcity in order to make profit.


Whether today's global overcapacity is seen as cause or effect of the economic crisis, one thing is certain: it isn't easy to make a profit in a world awash with overproduction. Capitalism is born in conditions of scarcity and is unable to function outside of them. So it seems logical that the crisis creates a tendency to restore these conditions artificially. But how does this affect the chances of the global economy to find a way out of its present predicament?

libcom.org...



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by BulletShogun
The op will not realize that.

He wants a resource based economy. that would slow down human advancement greatly. there would be less initiative to create and advance simply due to the lack of gain.

op...you are a fool.

Also never bring up feudal japan ever again in any of your posts.I will verbally destroy you with facts.

If your wondering why i brought up feudal japan. He mentioned it in another post of the same subject
edit on 8-6-2012 by BulletShogun because: (no reason given)


I would like to bring up Feudal Japan. They were not a resource based economy but they did put a realistic value on members of their society.



1 --At the top of the 'class structure' were the Samurai Warrior Class. The Samuria were about 10% of the population and they comanded respect.The Samurai answered only to their leader the Diamyo. The Diaymo was the leader of a people and controlled a region.The Diaymo only answered to the Shogun. The Shogun was the most powerful Diaymo.The Shogun answered to the Emperor technically but an Emperor was often merely a figurehead. The real power lay with the Shogun. But like I said,the Samurai Class were the top social group. 2 --Just below the Samurai Class on the social ladder were the Peasants and the Farmers. Yes,thats right. Peasants were the second most important people in Feudal Japan.The peasant sat above the Artisan and the Merchant because they produced the thing that was of the most value.Food.This is logical.We all need food.The Peasant is what holds everything together.They are much more important than the Artisan and the Merchant. 3 --Third on the list was the Artisan.The Artisan was important. They made boats,weapons,clothing and they were the highly skilled. But they were not as important as the Peasant. We all need food. Without food,the rest is impossible.The Artisan lived in their own section of cities. 4 --Last on the list is the parasitic Merchant Class. These people produce nothing of real value. These parasites were at the very bottom of society. They were seen for what they were. They produced nothing of value but instead,they exploited the other classes.These people like to call themselves 'Job Creators' today. What an insulting joke that is. In Feudal Japan the Merchant Class were ostracized.They had to live in their own part of a city and the higher classes were forbidden to mix with these parasites except for business related matter's.So all our Bankers and Corporatists would be at the bottom of society in Feudal Japan.very logical.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And a resource based economy is the only way for society to advance. Capitalism is holding us back.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 





But capitalism is what allows people to manipulate the economy, and politics.


No its policies of the US government that do. No, Capitalism allowed for the formation of and growth of these entities.

It was the governing policies of the US that allowed for the corruption. There is a Difference.

Stricter election laws, say a cap on the total amount a campaign could spend.

Strict Term Limits, no more careers in politics.

And enforce and tighten the rules on lobbying.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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OP - Jack London was not a trained economist in any regard.

Reading list if anyone dares:

Road to Serfdom [Hayek]

Theory of Money and Credit [Mises]

What Has Government Done With Our Money? [Rothbard]

Forty Centuries of Wage and Price Controls [Schuettinger, Butler]

These works are a good start to understanding what a free market system truly is and why we have never came close to operating as such. I fail to see how placing decision making in even fewer hands than it is in ‘crony’ capitalism will solve any problems at all.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by BulletShogun
He wants a resource based economy. that would slow down human advancement greatly. there would be less initiative to create and advance simply due to the lack of gain.


But that is not true and you are the fool if you think it is.

We have been conditioned to think of money as the only motivation.

The initiative to create rarely comes from money, only the ability to create comes from money.

Capitalism holds back technology. It's why we still use oil, and have not developed clean energy as we should have. In fact capitalism holds back all aspects of our development...

Capitalism Versus Science

Capitalism doesn't give a damn about Human development, it only cares about profit. So instead of free-energy for everyone we get ipods. We get crap that creates desire, not to better ourselves, but to make a minority class of people more wealthy. 80% of the world lives on less than $10 a day, and we have idiots lining up two days to buy tennis shoes, made by people making less than $10 a day. Workers just like you, workers being exploited just like you. Exploited as workers, and as consumers.

By taking away community, and turning everyone into 'individuals', they have made it easier to exploit you.

edit on 6/8/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by ConspiracyBuff
 





OP - Jack London was not a trained economist in any regard.


That would be a good thing. Seems most 'economists' dont know what they are talking about.

London was a futurist and a great socialist. The world has ended up very much like he predicted. His thinking is also in line with Marx who predicted the unsustainability of capitalism.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


You fool.

Merchants were not valuable simply because they didn't aid the warrior way of life. The samurai would buy luxurious items from merchants from time to time.

During the sengoku jidai period, aka the warring states merchants were valued as with them came new weapons and armor. the Portuguese brought matchlock rifles that were better than the copies the samurai made themselves and European style armor.

Merchants fell out of favor again when a clan that the Tokugawa shogunate barred from political power turned to trading to keep their wealth. Along with that came a ban on all European style anything. Religion included . At that point the country isolated itself from the rest of the world

Merchants became Valuable again during the Boshin war. When Commador Perry forced japan open to western trade the sale in guns and other western items was quite popular

Merchants were also considered a need. Without them no goods of even the traditional items could be acquired. this is wrote in detail in the book of 5 rings by musashi

Now on your resouce based economy.

It would bring a halt to human advancement. Without something to gain there would be no advancement.

In a resource based economy you have little to gain.The very computer you speak from would not exist simply because there would be so little to gain from building it.

Money runs the world. Always has.

The world has been capitalistic since we first began trading with coins thousands of years ago



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by benrl

No its policies of the US government that do. No, Capitalism allowed for the formation of and growth of these entities.

It was the governing policies of the US that allowed for the corruption. There is a Difference.

Stricter election laws, say a cap on the total amount a campaign could spend.

Strict Term Limits, no more careers in politics.

And enforce and tighten the rules on lobbying.


None of that has anything to do with why our economy is bad, nothing.

You have to realise that the government acts on behalf of the capitalists. You can blame the government all day, but ultimately the government we have is a result of the economy we have.

Even IF what you suggest happens capitalism will still exploit labour, will still manipulate society to its benefit. No government can stop that. Capitalists will always have the economic advantage, and use that to their benefit. The ultimate problem is not government, but when a minority class has an economic advantage over the majority.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Let me give you an example of traditional Japanese life during that time.

professions were usually done by family like most in the world during that time.

They would train to perfection in their chosen art and would produce a product that was well made.

feudal japan your name meant everything. it wasnt just the samurai and daimyo. The ones who build the best product were sought out just like in todays world.

The province of kai ran by the takeda clan was well known for their horses.

The Iga and omi for their ninja

The mori clan built great ships

The hojo built great castles

And the chosokabe had the best farming



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
OP - Jack London was not a trained economist in any regard.


No, but Marx and Engels were.

As were these socialists...

John Roemer
Richard Wolff
Robin Hahnel
Stephen Resnick
Michael Reich
Stephen Marglin
Thomas Weisskopf

But regardless in London's time most people new and understood socialism, unlike most people today. Go back before WWII and the working class was primarily socialist. Before the dumbing down of society.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by ConspiracyBuff
 





OP - Jack London was not a trained economist in any regard.


That would be a good thing. Seems most 'economists' dont know what they are talking about.

London was a futurist and a great socialist. The world has ended up very much like he predicted. His thinking is also in line with Marx who predicted the unsustainability of capitalism.


Apparently you missed my point. I am in no way shape or form defending Capitalism… In fact, I am doing exactly the opposite. A free market more resembles anarchy than capitalism.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by BulletShogun
reply to post by Germanicus
 


You fool.

Merchants were not valuable simply because they didn't aid the warrior way of life. The samurai would buy luxurious items from merchants from time to time.

During the sengoku jidai period, aka the warring states merchants were valued as with them came new weapons and armor. the Portuguese brought matchlock rifles that were better than the copies the samurai made themselves and European style armor.

Merchants fell out of favor again when a clan that the Tokugawa shogunate barred from political power turned to trading to keep their wealth. Along with that came a ban on all European style anything. Religion included . At that point the country isolated itself from the rest of the world

Merchants became Valuable again during the Boshin war. When Commador Perry forced japan open to western trade the sale in guns and other western items was quite popular

Merchants were also considered a need. Without them no goods of even the traditional items could be acquired. this is wrote in detail in the book of 5 rings by musashi

Now on your resouce based economy.

It would bring a halt to human advancement. Without something to gain there would be no advancement.

In a resource based economy you have little to gain.The very computer you speak from would not exist simply because there would be so little to gain from building it.

Money runs the world. Always has.

The world has been capitalistic since we first began trading with coins thousands of years ago



The Samuai philosophy honours confucian ideals. So they emphasized the importance of productive members of society, so farmers and fishermen had higher status than merchants in Japan. Samurai considered matters such as money to be beneath them. The Feudal period runs between th 12th and 19th centuries. Just because merchants gained more favour at certain brief periods does not change the Class System. It was a Four Tiered System with merchants at the bottom. Fact.

Capitalistic ways have always kept us back. The Romans had steam power. Why mot build steam trains? Slave trade. Its the same today. We are being held back.

And we didnt invent the wheel so we could get our own episode of MTV Cribs. People invent things for all kinds of reasons,not just personal gain. You can have a free market under a socialist system anyway. The point is that we are a productive society. We are mismanaging our resources. There is no need for poverty or famine in the world. Capitalism is waste. Capitalism holds us back.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Yeah, tell that to the 1950's, saw the largest growth of middle class in world history...

Same system, different governing laws and corporate ideologies.

Congress allowed the shipping of jobs elsewhere at the behest of corporate lobbying.

The lobbyist offered the carrot, congress didn't have to bite.

Stricter laws and actual enforcement of them on our elected officials prevent everything you are saying...

But your right lets throw it all out and usher in what ever new world order they have manufactured for us.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
A free market more resembles anarchy than capitalism.


Well it would be a socialist economy, as anarchists are socialists.

Yes socialism is truly free-market.

Capitalism is only free-market for those who make their living from their capital, and the investing of their profits. For the rest of us it is a controlled market, controlled by capitalist interests.

The ultimate goal of all socialists is free association of producers...


In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.

en.wikipedia.org...

The only true free-market would be worker owned.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by ANOK
 


Yeah, tell that to the 1950's, saw the largest growth of middle class in world history...


Where? America is not the whole world.

What is middle class? In America it seems to be almost everyone. Traditionally though unless you directly support the capitalist class, middle managment etc., then you are working class.

So did the middle class really grow, or did the terms simply change in their use?


Stricter laws and actual enforcement of them on our elected officials prevent everything you are saying...


No it doesn't. Once again it is still exploitation of labour no matter how you paint it.


But your right lets throw it all out and usher in what ever new world order they have manufactured for us.


Huh? The 'NWO' is nothing but a move to a global economy and totalitarian state, driven by capitalist interests to control, in order to maximize profits. 'Throwing it out' would be the answer mate.

edit on 6/8/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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The beauty of worker ownership is it takes away the ability for a minority class of people to gain access wealth, by exploiting the majority, and gaining the power to control the majority.

It is not a utopia where we are all equal and get the same money etc.

It does increase the wealth of everyone because the artificial scarcity, required for profit, would no longer be an issue. We would not be held back by the artificial restraints of money and profits.

If the community decided it wants solar power the only restriction would be time and labour, which we have plenty of. What's in it for you? Solar power. What would you do if you got cash instead? Just sit and admire it, or spend it? See money is really just a tool of control, a way to gain more than what you have is really worth. A resources value is based on its scarcity, but most resources are only scarce due to underproduction. We have millions unemployed, but because capitalists are not making profit, access to production is denied. Who does this hurt? The poor, the working and middle classes.

Our whole society has been set up to create egotistical individuals to ensure we spend and spend in order to keep up socially with our peers. Imagine all the wasted resources in order to 'keep up with the Joneses'. The working class camping on city streets in order to buy a pair of tennis shoes that cost more than a months wage, because of limited production, the capitalists wet dream. (and then some idiot will pay even more for them on Ebay). Shoes made by people making less than $10 a day.

edit on 6/8/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
A free market more resembles anarchy than capitalism.


Well it would be a socialist economy, as anarchists are socialists.

Yes socialism is truly free-market.

Capitalism is only free-market for those who make their living from their capital, and the investing of their profits. For the rest of us it is a controlled market, controlled by capitalist interests.

The ultimate goal of all socialists is free association of producers...


In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.

en.wikipedia.org...

The only true free-market would be worker owned.


Are you in favor of something like this?

There were 6 billion plus alive and half are employable; in 2009 world GDP was 58 trillion. This means the average input/output per person is capped at $20k, yet some of us absorb many times that annually. The reality of poverty: [20,000/365 = $55] $55 is the maximum per person we can earn and/or consume for consumption to equal production. Therefore, at this equilibrium neither surplus nor deficit occurs relating to consumption or expenditure, because everyone is both putting in $55 and receiving $55 from the ‘economy’. Poverty occurs when a small number of ‘society’ is both expending and consuming beyond their means, instead of expended or consuming within their means. Thus a portion of societies’ right to contribute and extract $55 is absorbed by those who perceive themselves as more deserving than others. Many of us survive on less than a dollar a day when we should have $54 more available, not only as contribution but income, due only to greed and ignorance.

We will soon live in a world free of labor, or labor will be completely automated. Most firms fixed costs have been and will continue to increase because of this. Essentially the firm is paying robots in the form of costs, instead of paying a person in the form of wage or salary; both are one in the same. Think about that, we will be paying robots to produce our labor, if we keep our current perception of business. What happens when employment rate is around 3% (of population)? Or what happens when the need for labor is around 3% (If half only ‘volunteered’ one eight hour work day per week, 1.25 trillion ‘labor’ hours would be available each year. Rebuilding the pyramids 31 times over per year and also Stonehenge over 11 million times, a task according to some not accomplishable with ‘current technology’, but that is a dialogue for another time.) So low, that people would actually volunteer to work for the simple fact of boredom, because there is literally nothing that cannot be done by machine and all that is left is innovation, maintenance and control. My belief is that the cry for human ‘labor’ is nothing more than a misguided perception formulated by the advantaged to keep the masses subdued through debt and the need for employment to compensate for the debt we accrue via desire. Productivity is a misnomer as your production while employed is limited. So how can income be based off productivity?





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