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My thoughts on "hell".

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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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I remember my catholic school teaching of how Hell was the domain of Lucifer.
His hatred and malice towards God and those whom served him knew no ends.

You go to hell and voila, tortured in the most horrific ways for eternity..do not pass go, etc.


Something about this always seemed illogical.

Now, the devil is not a dumb being according to the religion...fairly smart chap actually, and his idea is basically to mock god and belittle the creation..he can do better.

Wouldn't it then be his desire to create a better kingdom? To make hell so wonderful, so enlightened, so profoundly peaceful and desirable that the people whom serve god in heaven would look at hell and long to be under the leadership and rule of Lucifer than God?

The torture forever thing seems more on the lines of assuring those in heaven they chose wisely and that God is indeed the king ruler of all, and lucifer just basically sucks as a person and useless as a ruler.

Anyhow
My concept of a actual hell based on the trumping God would be like heaven 2.0, a utopian world of tech and nature fusion, of exploration both outer and inner space, of loving, but individualism the same. Of vibrations of pleasure eminating out so even on a bad day, your still feeling wonderful at all times.

Whats your philosophy and view of what a hell would be in relation to the judeo-christian idea of hell being the domain of the person whom tried to be a greater god? Torture and suffer? pleasure and desire? blackness?

Random lightweight friday discussion, no chatting about evolution v creationism or anything..this is just a creative theological concept thread.




posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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I grew up with the 'typical' ideas on heaven and hell, but I don't hold them now.

To me, hell is a place where ignorance wins.

Heaven is a place where reason wins.


So, my views have morphed into something entirely unrecognizable from what I was brought up to believe.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 



My concept of a actual hell based on the trumping God would be like heaven 2.0, a utopian world of tech and nature fusion, of exploration both outer and inner space, of loving, but individualism the same. Of vibrations of pleasure emanating out so even on a bad day, your still feeling wonderful at all times.


This would be an excellent win/win situation.

Heads or tails we'd all end up somewhere nice.

It'd be like two guys fighting for customers in the best traditions of a free-market economy.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Daemonicon
To me, hell is a place where ignorance wins.

Ack, we die and end up in Congress?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by SaturnFX
 



My concept of a actual hell based on the trumping God would be like heaven 2.0, a utopian world of tech and nature fusion, of exploration both outer and inner space, of loving, but individualism the same. Of vibrations of pleasure emanating out so even on a bad day, your still feeling wonderful at all times.


This would be an excellent win/win situation.

Heads or tails we'd all end up somewhere nice.

It'd be like two guys fighting for customers in the best traditions of a free-market economy.


Hence why I sort of like the pagan idea..let a bunch of deities fight it out for the hearts and minds of the living...how cool would it be to choose from 10 different potential afterlifes catering to its niche

=signs up with the aphrodite crowd=



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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well, what i believe is that if your bad, you go to hell to suffer until you have suffered enough and understand what you did was wrong, and become good.


i think it would be illogical for someone to just suffer forever.





i believe everyone and anyone can be a "good guy" instead of a "bad guy" if they see things from different perspectives and consciousnesses.


edit:


im sure that there are probably many "betweens" and "purgatories" that exist between realities and "places"

that aware beings "people" go to learn who they really are.

there are plenty of oddballs out there, but hopefully we all go where we are happy, or do what makes us happy.


maybe someones idea of happiness is to travel the universe like dr.who?

im sure some people would love that type of adventure.
edit on 8-6-2012 by SoymilkAlaska because: (no reason given)



Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
well, what i believe is that if your bad, you go to hell to suffer until you have suffered enough and understand what you did was wrong, and become good.

I often wonder
How long do you have to brutally beat a child before it magically becomes a good kid.



WHOA... no way im totally against that stuff.


i don't think hell is LITERALLY a place where you burn and suffer like crazy until you magically get better.


i think you learn things, and get punished in ways that make sense to YOU and are justified in your own opinion.

you punish YOURSELF.

thats what i think.

i am 100% against spanking children because its pure terrorism.


peace.
edit on 8-6-2012 by SoymilkAlaska because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 
Yeah, have you ever noticed that the major religions are actually offering us an after-life of bureaucracy and office-jockeys?

As soon as we shuffle out of these bodies, some admin guy is supposed to be waiting with a tick-sheet.

Did we vote for them? Nah.

Apparently we can file a complaint and spend eternity in Limbo.

After-life seems like the same old BS as down here, but the folk on that side have more wings.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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Yes, catholics and hell...


The bible is clear, there are three places when hell is referenced,

the Abyss is sorta a prison of sorts for the worst angels that turned, it is to be opened in the end times.


sheol is the old testament version of hell, its where Abraham bussom is refereed to, the place of comfort this is PRE-Jesus for the righteous, the wicked get no comfort there. (reference the parable of Lazarus Jesus told.)

And Tartarus or the lake of fire, is the end time judgement place.


Sheol is current hell theologically though.

Anyway Lucifer or Satan, actually don't reside in hell yet, and has no control over it, the Bible is pretty clear the deed to this planet is firmly in his hands.

That is until the 2nd Coming.


Again this goes into theological concepts most Catholics aren't taught, but its all in the bible, may have to look up original translations, and the actual contextual meaning behind wording.
edit on 8-6-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Ok, I see your point about Satan trying to out do God. It makes sense in alot of ways. In that case the labeling of hell as such a terrible place would just be propoganda by the heavenly beings to try to convince people to go their way. I have heard many things about hell. Being raised Catholic, i have heard the same ideas of being tortured by demons for all of eternity for disobeying God's law. The things that come to mind are, you have your soul ripped out of your body over and over again, burned alive and you can't die so you just suffer forever. If the demons and Satan are busy punishing those that disobey God, aren't they then the good guys? We don't label the gaurds at a prison prisoners, right? I don't know if I believe all the stuff about tourture and the like. One nun once told me that the suffering you experience is not physical pain, it is awareness that you are now and forever seperated from God. You will never feel his love or presence again and though we don't realize it now, we do feel and experience his love and presence everyday. It is only when we go to hell the we truly know what it is to be alone.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
well, what i believe is that if your bad, you go to hell to suffer until you have suffered enough and understand what you did was wrong, and become good.

I often wonder
How long do you have to brutally beat a child before it magically becomes a good kid.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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In a mental sense, who could go to heaven and enjoy this with the knowledge that so many good people are being tortured night and day, just because of original sin and because they didn't get baptized or "saved"?

What kind of consciousness would it take to enjoy heaven while hell is going on?

OK, I'm sure somebody like Fred Phelps and his brainwashed clan could enjoy heaven with everybody else burning in hell, probably with a great deal of smug satisfaction.

I could deal with some people burning in hell, at least for a while.
But I'm not sure I could deal with Gandhi, Hypatia, Freddy Mercury, John Lennon or Srila Phrabupada burning in hell simply because they weren't Christians.
That would lay on my consciousness every second, and heaven would thus be a mental hell.

Thus I would choose not to be "saved" but still care for the Bible, and I'd choose not to raptured, because I have a fear of heights, and being zapped into the sky would be so hellish that I'd rather stay behind.

So I can love Jesus, but choose not to go to heaven, or to be raptured.
I hope that's possible.
A real compassionate conscience would boycott heaven and refuse to go until God comes down and changes things.
edit on 8-6-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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I think hell is a flawed ideal. Why would sinners be sent to a place where their sickest desires and wishes are continually fulfilled? Right. Sure. It's like sending a pedophile to a hell where kids continually beat him for his transgression. You think he's not going to get off on that? Please, use some sense. Those souls should be destroyed (should they remain intact on death), and shame on us to let them out or even live, to potentially harm another innocent. One thing I think the bible got right. If somebody has the gall to rape or kill or violence against another, take them out. 99% of who we are is LEARNED behavior.

I think we are in our testing grounds and it's all bigger than we know or can figure out. I live in love and happiness and try to teach my children to also.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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My thoughts on hell: We are in it.

3rd dimensional reality is hell, we have many restrictions placed on us in this reality and have to endure many horrors in the world we live.

I am an agnostic so I don't believe in a heaven or hell but I think that's what they were referring to.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
well, what i believe is that if your bad, you go to hell to suffer until you have suffered enough and understand what you did was wrong, and become good.

I often wonder
How long do you have to brutally beat a child before it magically becomes a good kid.



WHOA... no way im totally against that stuff.


i don't think hell is LITERALLY a place where you burn and suffer like crazy until you magically get better.


i think you learn things, and get punished in ways that make sense to YOU and are justified in your own opinion.

you punish YOURSELF.

thats what i think.

i am 100% against spanking children because its pure terrorism.


peace.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by SoymilkAlaska
 


Well my boys would be hard pressed to hear that. They just cold cocked their dad wrestling around with him and felt pretty proud about getting that shot in! And enjoyed giving their sister her birthday spankings a month ago.


None of my children are abused, but they are loved, played with. We cater to a boys curiosity to tear things apart and blow things up. We cater to our girls wanting baby-dolls and make-up and barbies. Why?

It's natural. We are physical beings. I wouldn't suppress thousands of years of evolution. We are as we are, for a reason. Unfortunately, it still isn't keeping our numbers down....and pollution is a concern.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


222 - The Mystic realm of Death Where do the dead go? What does the Bible teach on this issue? Is there a hell? Seven heavens? Life after death? Reincarnation? Are there ghosts? Does the Bible have anything to say about spiritism? Discover the true teachings of the Bible on this often misunderstood topic.


The idea that you go to a good place or a bad place on the other side comes from the Osiris Cult ('Amduat' by Tutmose III). The bible describes the state someone enters when they die as a kind of 'unconscious sleep' where the dead 'know nothing' so this should rule out any practices that involves the consultation of dead ancestors (e.g the 'saints' as mediators for you in the R.C.C) because they aren't able to speak with you by the fallen angels are all too happy to impersonate them for you to start leading you down the wrong path. When someone dies they are essentially just 'sleeping' until either they are raised up again in the resurrection when the 'real' Jesus comes back or they remain still 'sleeping' until the Judgment takes places (which is 1000 years after the second coming of Jesus), so they are resurrected for this and made aware that from their life's record that the sentence is just. What takes place next is that they are basically erased from existence and never to be given another opportunity to live on again, that is it for them. The Bible however uses slightly more colorful language to get across the message that your soul is going to be completely annihilated just to convey the seriousness of it for you.

How long it takes for God to erase each person in the Judgment is based on their works (or what they have done in their lives). For people who have rejected following God but have been typical decent people they will be erased/destroy almost instantly, people who have been cruel to others or knowingly lead others astray then this process of destruction to completely cleanse the earth of all traces of sin will be longer for them. Essentially those in the Judgment should have nothing to fear.

- Everlasting Destruction? (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
- The Achilles Heel of the Eternal Torment Doctrine
- Revelation 14:11: Tormented forever?

- Your understanding of Hell is incorrect (along this the majority of protestant Christianity which simply uses the BS coming from the Vatican. The word 'forever' or 'eternal' is associated with the affects of the consequences of their decisions and action, not the actual length of time that it takes God to erase people out of existence. That length of time is determined by your actions and degree of deliberately leading people astray from God knowingly and your cruelty to your fellow man. Most of the 'wicked' will be erased from existence by being consumed by fire until they are ashes almost instantly.

- There are only 2 options, either being erased from existence after this current life you have now or choosing the free gift to spend an eternal life with the creator of the universe, the one that sustains your every breathe, the one that loves you more than anyone, who had you on His mind before you were even born, who will never let you down when you call upon Him, who desires to be your personal friend and know you above anything else and wishes for you to find Him and take you to be with Him in paradise forever, the place where there is no tears, no sickness, no death or discord. With Him there every power will be developed, every capability increased. The grandest enterprises will be carried forward, the loftiest aspirations will be reached, the highest ambitions realized. And still there will arise new heights to surmount, new wonders to admire, new truths to comprehend, fresh objects to call forth the powers of body and mind and soul.

You need to be more careful in forming opinions about things where you information has been carefully influenced by the Vatican. A power and authority whom the bible designates in Revelation 13:2 comes from the Dragon [Satan] himself. Anything that can trace its roots back to the Vatican that presents Jesus in a poor way should be carefully examined then dismissed.

Characteristics of the Anti-christ from the bible absolutely fufilled by the Papacy



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Now, the devil is not a dumb being according to the religion...fairly smart chap actually, and his idea is basically to mock god and belittle the creation..he can do better.


The modern world would speak a different testament...See, this is his time. Since we started burning fossil fuels we've seen the change. Sure, there will be those that now scream "DOLT!" and tell me "don't bring that nonsense", that there's always been wars. WW1, WW2, the atomic bomb, and the slaughter of innocents since the discovery of oil makes all the wars and death on the planet before hand, look like a fricken picnic. So maybe, just maybe, we've all been resurrecting the nephilim by burning our carbon, the "blood" of the nephilim into the air for decades. And the consequences have been showing for a century. The stench is fowl to the Lord.



Originally posted by SaturnFX

To make hell so wonderful, so enlightened, so profoundly peaceful and desirable that the people whom serve god in heaven would look at hell and long to be under the leadership and rule of Lucifer than God?


He hates you. Human. You're chosen over him. You are a child of God. To be like God. He hates you. Because he wants to be you. He won't stop. He doesn't care. He knows what will happen. He doesn't care. He knows the consequences. He doesn't care. He would rather see you burn forever than to see you achieve what he never could.



Originally posted by SaturnFX

Anyhow
My concept of a actual hell based on the trumping God would be like heaven 2.0, a utopian world of tech and nature fusion, of exploration both outer and inner space, of loving, but individualism the same. Of vibrations of pleasure eminating out so even on a bad day, your still feeling wonderful at all times.


Good luck with that.


Originally posted by SaturnFX

Whats your philosophy and view of what a hell would be in relation to the judeo-christian idea of hell being the domain of the person whom tried to be a greater god? Torture and suffer? pleasure and desire? blackness?


Hell is going to be something so frickin miserable that you won't want to be there. Even if Satan ruled it, which he doesn't (Jesus holds those keys, but that's a whole nother discussion), he would treat you like spit. He hates you. He hates you for simply being. He wants to be you so bad it hurts. He wants the chance to be looked at by God the way he looks at you, with such loving eyes.

I end with this. Do not be fooled. Satan isn't on your side. He isn't going to help you, care about you, love you, or even think of you as anything other than cannon fodder. And every human soul he can convenience is elsewise is just another laugh to him.

Demon: Should we march?

Satan: Nah, I got enough people thinking I'm the good guy now, let's toss em to the flames first.

Demon: Brilliant.

Satan: Duh, I'm the King of frickin' Darkness. I know the score.

He loves our ignorance. He delights in our folly. He wants you to think, "yep, there's other options other than Heaven, I'll be alright."

There isn't.

All I got, take it for what you will.
edit on 9-6-2012 by Lasr1oftheJedi because: the same reason it is every time pinky.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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Did they really teach you in Catholic school that Hell was ruled over by Lucifer? Not Satan?
edit on 9-6-2012 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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Religious dogma/theology aside, I can't help but take a more logical approach when looking at the traditional concept of an endless lake of fire. I've always thought that that representation sounds an awful lot like a star, or more specifically The Sun. Only way to pull off an endless lake of fire would be in a spherical structure. No matter which way you go, it's always the same. Considering the extreme conditions that exist on the outer layers of stars, I imagine that's probably the closest we can come to that traditional concept of "hell"



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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Phylisophically speaking however, there's a quote in the movie "What Dreams May Come" that I'd say sums up my thoughts concerning Hell....

"Everybody's Hell is different. It's not always Fire and Pain. The REAL Hell is your life gone wrong"



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