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Ignorance is Bliss & The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by jiggerj
 
Well, Walter - that was certainly depressing.

I'll have to disagree, at least in part though. Yes, we are for the most part animals - but we are also animals that thankfully have been built/designed what the heck ever in the image of god...which I take as a mental/potential thing, and not merely one of physical construct.

As such, god has, in the promises of the bible, given the gift of eternal life to those who choose to rise above such things and live in a state of love and innocence, accepting the death of another as their own to sinfulness - inadvertent harm be damned. If we live in love and peace with one another, sacrificing our own selfish motivations up on the altar of loving kindness, we might rise above the animals we otherwise qualify as and find ourselves awakening in everlasting life someday.

And breaking with my brethren here - I truly believe that atheists and all sorts of others might find themselves astounded to see the same things as well, barring certain factors.

Have yourself a wonderful evening...and try to see things a bit more on the sunny side, as I need to to myself when there's slightly less chemical assistance in abundance. Be well.



My post was not depressing. Everything I described as 'human' is merely a state of the way we are. Would you call it depressing if I said trees grow leaves and absorb water and nutrients from the ground? This is what a tree does. This is what a tree is.

Humans can only do human things, no more and no less. And sadly, one of the human things many of us do is believe in imaginary friends.




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by yougetwhatyoudeserve
 


While most comments are welcome, you are being completely rude. And i know the topic wasn't your personal opinion of how or why people deny ignorance. And why did you come into the PHILOSOPHICAL forum if you were going to bash everyone for their belief?

Back on topic,
I think that religion probably started out as a gathering of people who were like minded spiritually and then took down the path of darkness. We need to look for God in each of us. Not from some overly stuffed preacher yelling on stage.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

The God concept gives many people comfort. As long as they don't force other people to believe as they do I don't have a problem with it.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Sorry, jiggerj, but your statement of there being NO life after death holds just as much water as people who make claims that there is. I can't honestly comprehend how anyone could take anything but an agnostic approach to these questions without actually knowing and/or experiencing it directly.

I can't prove that life exists after the body dies and you can not prove that it doesn't. After all.. we're only human.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


I can really relate to this. After a period of being lost, or maybe i should say uncertain and confused. I found myself searching for the key to all knowlege or the theory to tie up all theory,s, and i thought that whatever it was would make me happy. Ive come to realise that, now im completely decided and i have an accepted point of view. I feel empty but content.

I dont know whether its the lack of a quest, or the fact that what ive come to learn aint all that special when its laid out bare. My mind aches for something new to try to get to grips with but nothing will ever come close.

I did,nt find my answers through religion alone, more my own personal take on spirituality. Built from knowlege that ive taken from many different sources. Religion, science and philosophy to name a few.

Now i rattle about the threads, learning what i can about various subjects and testing whether my view still ties in.

With regards to the OP. I have to say ignorance is bliss on a lot of subjects, but knowlege like this needs to be searched for. It has the power to influence your whole life after. So i,ll take the disappointing wisdom anyday.

Its always cool when you can explain things to others though and perhaps challenge them to think of things from a different perspective.

edit on 8-6-2012 by EncompassAll because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:55 AM
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Ignorance of the world is bliss. Very young children are not shaped by the world. But children are sent to school to learn knowledge of the world, so they fit in to the world.
When you have grown up and learned about the world, you become shaped by the world. Now you are world shaped you do not know what you really are.
Then it is time to go and find out what you are because ignorance of your true nature feels like hell.

Forget the world when you have learned it and remember yourself.
Be like the prodigal son. Go out into the world and then return home.
edit on 8-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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Hi there maybe this might help


WISDOM IN 100 WORDS
One of Barry Long's editors asked for his wisdom in 100 words. This was the result:

Wisdom or truth is the original and natural state of intelligence.
Intelligence is corrupted by likes and dislikes.
The result is the problematical human condition.
Likes are the desire to win and hold onto, and dislikes are the desire not to lose or fail.
Winning means pleasure or elation and losing means annoyance or unhappiness.
When likes and dislikes are dissolved the human condition of fluctuating pleasure and pain vanishes.
An uninterrupted state of equilibrium ­ no ups, no downs ­ is then constant.
And wisdom or truth is the natural expression

Everyone's life consists only of events.
Events are impersonal.
Events are personalised by the mind and emotions and made reasonable and purposeful by likes and dislikes.
Likes and dislikes determine the interests and desires of the person.
Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes which is why some are interested in golf and some are not and some are attracted to people that others are not.

Wisdom in a Further 110 Words

Rendering events reasonable and purposeful requires rational thought.
Rational thought is the futile attempt to make sense of sense or what living is about instead of realising the inexpressible truth behind it.
Rational thought may follow a logical sequence but having begun with an illogical and rational premise ­ that truth is accessible by reasoning ­ the result is a rational and illogical conclusion: an impression, thesis or a theory.
Thus all thinkers and rational people are fundamentally discontented or frustrated in their love lives and in pursuit of their aspirations.
This subconscious disturbance requires continuous compromise and pretence to conceal the fact from others.

Barry Long



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


Well the Vatican just came out and said that the story of Adam and Eve was just a story which means that the "tree of knowledge" never existed. No one ate an apple and doomed mankind with original sin and no one gained any secret knowledge or lost any secret knowledge or what ever that damn book says anyway.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by disgustingfatbody
Then you must have noticed how evil the world really is, if you've truly transformed.

If your eyes are truly open, you see the truth behind our existence.

Do you?

The truth is so ugly I'd rather be ignorant.
edit on 6/7/2012 by disgustingfatbody because: ADDED CONTENT


You suffer from depression my friend. See your doctor he or she can help you.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


There is a difference between us and other animals in that we control our environment and they do not. We can make it warm when the winter winds blow and we can make it cool when the summer sun blazes. We can preserve our food for longer shelf life and clean our water for better taste and better health. There is so much more to us than just animal instincts. When a person fails to see this about us I feel that person suffers from esteme issues and doesnt realize just how wonderful and special and different mankind is.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Sorry, jiggerj, but your statement of there being NO life after death holds just as much water as people who make claims that there is. I can't honestly comprehend how anyone could take anything but an agnostic approach to these questions without actually knowing and/or experiencing it directly.

I can't prove that life exists after the body dies and you can not prove that it doesn't. After all.. we're only human.

and Alive. Making our viewpoint a very narrow one when it comes to life after.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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when you get more time in the seat.... here on this planet, you'll get more insight
we are not animals......and the other topic......the garden
God stopped us humans from eating of the second tree, the tree of life, so we wouldn't become like Him. it's lonely at the top and we don't want all the responsibility of God...He saved us the trouble. He saved us from the headache.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by GBP/JPY
 

What is the tree of life from the biblical perspective? Do we know?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by karen61057
 

I don't think a stranger in a forum is qualified to make that diagnosis.

You don't know what I've seen. I've been through a very profound NDE, which catapulted me into a whole new awareness of what we really are and why we're here.

Depression has nothing to do with it.
edit on 6/8/2012 by disgustingfatbody because: GRAMMAR



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by karen61057
 

Do you have a link to this article or video?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


Do you believe what the Vatican tells you??



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


Thanks for this thread...in many parts you've put in words succinctly, things Ive been struggling to articulate to myself...let alone anyone else....a gift.

Having undergone a similar trans-formative experience...all I can say at this point is I have discerned enough to know that I am 'still in it'. By that I mean that I know enough to know that I have traversed some kind of divide, though despite what I think sometimes, I am also aware I am still in the forming or reforming stages. Ive resisted so far, every temptation to draw conclusions. I keep hearing ' don't pull the shoots' and so..am not..just trusting that all is as its mean to be...and that I wont know what I don't know..until I know it...and when I am meant to..need to..when knowing will be useful and honestly applied....I will.

When I was going through my time, a woman said to me ' re-member yourself'..she wrote it just like that..deliberately hyphenated...and the timing of that information was to me then, a guide of sorts to what I had to 'do' next, and so I have been doing just that..re-remembering...literally perceiving back together, what had been non locally shattered and rediscovering or reclaiming the pieces of me that been propelled away during the experience....sorting wheat from chaff as I go...'aging' along the way.

Rather than as you, coming to a conclusion there is no God..which is something I nearly did at several points..my experience and its continuance has led me to exploring consciously ( conscious as I am now not as I was before) the possibility there *really is* a God - a thing I intuitively 'knew' or relied upon before, but never examined closely or as consciously as I am conscious now. Its been an interesting time to say the least!

Like you've written it does feel at times as if I have 'eaten the apple' though I don't recall ever being invited to do so....I even remember asking myself during the critical time of my experience and in a joking manner ' ok who ate the apple' as even though I have worked in the fields of international politics and science my entire life and much of it 'alternative' fields to the norm..I have still come to a new perception of just what it is that I am seeing out there now..and like you..I don't often like what I see with these 'new eyes'. For me, the same has forced me to examine Love in my life..and what I was and wasn't loving before..its led me to examining innocence..and how the two combined..in a form of what I ca only call, pre-salvation, kept me spare and safe from many things.

Oddly..much of this time has been about divesting myself from responsibility..ones that are not mine to carry..a long unwinding of 'something'..and letting go...as much as bringing in..and I cant be sure if I am evolving or devolving half the time..growing up or down..going up or down...all I do know is I am acutely 'present' now..a gift and curse and something far more profound than anything I've experienced ever before with an insight more than I ever suspected mere natural processes of maturity or growth would have provided .
Perhaps that is just ego talking..I don't know..genuinely..I don't know...I have noting to compare this experience to.

Still...and when I let go the non essentials in this experience and stop fearing outcomes long enough, things often boil down to my engagement with the 'simple' emotional complexities of my current reality. I can't be sure yet if my discomfort is just about the burden of responsibility what I see brings into my life..a burden I now feel ill equipped to bear being sans intuitive powers as I am now, or if its the powerlessness I often feel about being so ineffective to alter anything. Maybe its just fear...or being fearful *to* alter anything too greatly or quickly in my life as I don't want to or don't feel able yet to wisely take responsibility for anything I might alter...even by accident. Its an odd way to concurrently become, and cease to be ...human as I understood the term.

That said...I'm still at "I don't know" when it comes to any certainty of assessment...as much of the overarching truth of this time is still hidden to self as I suppose I need it to be at the moment..and there are still times when thought manifests itself strangely in my life and frightens me, so all I want to do is go back to sleep or run. So I have a lot of inner resistance and determination yet to overcome...a lot of fears to face. This presence of fear though, tells me that whatever happened..it is still happening..and every time I think its complete and begin to reflect..off it starts again and more occurs..so right now, I am just staying in a 'non judging' place and space within...and seeing where this river flows...taking each glimpse and synchronicity for what it is.

Another odd thing, I am also deaf..though only in my left ear.... weird
I say weird as it was only being deaf that I noted the tonal changes in frequencies about me at all....interesting.

Nice to meet you/read you Mark..thank you again for sharing your stuff...I will go look at your link soon as possible and try to respond more on topic next time.

best


Rosha
edit on 8-6-2012 by Rosha because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Sorry, jiggerj, but your statement of there being NO life after death holds just as much water as people who make claims that there is. I can't honestly comprehend how anyone could take anything but an agnostic approach to these questions without actually knowing and/or experiencing it directly.

I can't prove that life exists after the body dies and you can not prove that it doesn't. After all.. we're only human.


Is there life after the death of broccoli? I sure hope not cuz I won't eat it here, much less in another life! The only difference between humans and broccoli (or rats or fish...) is that we developed brains capable of thinking deep thoughts. So, either ALL life goes on after death, or none of it does.

Sure, our energy lives on, but it still remains in THIS universe. Our flesh becomes bug food. We release gases and oil.

It's a matter of the believers not being able to have it both ways. Either all life has a soul and lives on, or none of it does, including us.
edit on 6/8/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by jiggerj
 


There is a difference between us and other animals in that we control our environment and they do not. We can make it warm when the winter winds blow and we can make it cool when the summer sun blazes. We can preserve our food for longer shelf life and clean our water for better taste and better health. There is so much more to us than just animal instincts. When a person fails to see this about us I feel that person suffers from esteme issues and doesnt realize just how wonderful and special and different mankind is.


Everything you mentioned comes from the ability to think deep thoughts. No way are we special or different. We're animals. When a person fails to see this about us I feel that person suffers from esteem issues, needing to believe in things that just aren't real because he/she doesn't feel whole and needs to validate his/her life in unrealistic ways.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Is there life after the death of broccoli? I sure hope not cuz I won't eat it here, much less in another life! The only difference between humans and broccoli (or rats or fish...) is that we developed brains capable of thinking deep thoughts. So, either ALL life goes on after death, or none of it does.

Sure, our energy lives on, but it still remains in THIS universe. Our flesh becomes bug food. We release gases and oil.

It's a matter of the believers not being able to have it both ways. Either all life has a soul and lives on, or none of it does, including us.
edit on 6/8/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Exactly my point. We'll never know.



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