Ignorance is Bliss & The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

I've been waiting to make a thread about this topic but my only problem is believing I won't be able to make the the thread when trying to explain the question I'm asking. Instead of not making the thread at all, I'm simply going to do my best to explain. I don't even know what I'm trying to say, the thoughts that run through my head just simply cannot be put into words almost as if it's a Universal Language of some sort. So, here we go.

In the past few days I got to thinking about the possibility of how the saying "Ignorance is bliss", and the bibical story of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil could possibly be related in a some way. In the story, basically you eat the able and you gain knowledge. But today, there are many different ways of gaining such knowledge. See my quote below. 5th Paragraph down.

In the past 4 months I've been going through a transformation. During which, I've found new perspectives on life and relationships. Most importantly of all, I finally found myself after being lost pretty much my whole life and living through it blissfully ignorant. Because of what I know today, I'm completely miserable but wise. Now I don't know what was better, being blissfully ignorant or miserably wise. I came accross a quote online, that explained this easier for me;

The pleasures of ignorance are as great, in their way, as the pleasures of knowledge. ~Aldous Huxley

A wise man he sure was, to have came up with that quote. Because I can't stress, just how true it really is. Being blissfully ignorant and miserably both have it's own perks.

Here's a quote that I made just last night when trying to summarize my thoughts into a small, simple short quote.

"Different perspectives based on mental/physical disability, curiousness, and drugs are similar to eating the apple from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil because it allows you to open up your mind and see things from a different perspective of which people can either choose to use for good out of selflessness or bad out of selfishness" - Myself

Because of my disibility; I gained a new sense. The sixth sense. Very unique and it's been helping me a lot now that I've been working on it. With it, I can see right through people and their intentions in most cases. It's quite funny, how people act around me not knowing that I'm deaf or hard of hearing unless I tell them I didn't hear something. This is one way I test people because in a lot of cases I've seen people change how they acted towards me quickly after knowing about my disibility. And I know why too, and it's not just one reason but many different reasons. I suppose this is the reason why, I seem to be interested physchology and sociology. For those who don't know about my disability, I'm completely deaf in my right ear with 80% hearing loss in the other. I wear a hearing aid in order to be able to hear the way I do today.

Here's a link to my full information regarding my Transformation and helping people to understand me better. It's a bit of a long read, but worth it and just may give you different perspectives. It's on Facebook, all you have to do is go to the link and go to Notes because that's where I put it.

Understanding me better and my Transformation

I'm simply asking for others opinions about what they think of this subject. Personally, now that Cardinal George Pell has described the biblical story of Adam and Eve as a myth by saying the story was created for religious reasons. I'm now more convinced that God does not exist. Although, I don't think anyone will ever know if Cardinal George Pell was telling the truth or not but from what I read about him, he believed he was on a Mission from God. I personally don't think he wouldn't have a reason to lie about such story being a myth or not.

I hope I got some of you thinking. Because this topic, has kept me up nights just thinking and trying to figure out the logical meaning behind all of this and how to put the thoughts that go through my mind into words. I must have only had 4 hours of sleep in the last two days.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, and I appreciate it a lot. And I'm sorry, but this is the best I can do for now in explaining this. If something else comes to mind, I will be sure to post it.

Regards,

knowledge makes you lose the experience

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
knowledge makes you lose the experience

You didn't even read my thread. Quit trolling.

Then you must have noticed how evil the world really is, if you've truly transformed.

If your eyes are truly open, you see the truth behind our existence.

Do you?

The truth is so ugly I'd rather be ignorant.

Originally posted by disgustingfatbody
Then you must have noticed how evil the world really is, if you've truly transformed.

If your eyes are truly open, you see the truth behind our existence.

Do you?

It's impossible to be fully transformed in that sense. I know bits and peices and I'm still learning knew things. And I don't believe one person will ever be able to know it all.

reply to post by TheProphetMark

Then I've seen things that you haven't, but that doesn't surprise me. We're all different in how we view the world.

I had an NDE that opened my eyes to the ugliness in this world. I'll never be the same. I don't laugh anymore. In fact, I spend a lot of time analyzing what I see and it isn't good.

reply to post by TheProphetMark
Mark, I'll honestly have to come back to your thread when I sober up (it's been one of those days) for a proper response to what I think you're getting at here, but given your subject matter I'll weigh in - disclosure: I'm a firm, but very unorthodox and likely heretical, believer.

What you've said here so far brings me very much back to one of my recent thoughts on this subject. You mention the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and ignorance being bliss: children have no honest concept of good and evil, they just are. They exist in a state of ignorance, as did - allegedly - Adam and Eve in the supposed garden.

When you're in a state of ignorance, current human applications of law aside ("IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NOT EXCUSE FOR VIOLATION OF THE LAW!!" or whatnot), you should not be liable for violating said law. This applies in all sorts of legal situations, including tricking people into signing paperwork without an understanding of the transaction taking place. As well, this applies in court as regards motive and intent as a means of determining guilt.

The bible itself (granted, in the epistles which I tend to take primarily as commentary, although well-informed commentary in SOME cases) teaches that sin is not imputed where there is no law, and Chris also taught that the kingdom of Heaven belongs to those such as these (children, who exist in state of ignorance, akin to Adam and Eve prior to eating the fruit).

I truly believe that ignorance honestly is bliss, and that guilt is alleviated through such - and this is one reason that, according to believers - the kingdom of Heaven belongs to children, or those who approach the kingdom as such: free of guilt, evil intent, and willful malice.

I'm still struggling to work my way well through the concept, and I know we're on different sides of the fence here as my learning has only driven me CLOSER to the faith (while yet questioning all sorts of details of it even more strenuously), but I think knowing intent and wilfulness of our actions is a prime determining factor - by no means intending we should just do stupid things without considering the implications - and that honestly living our lives in the innocent unharmfulness of children with a wonder for the world and no ill will to anyone is about the best thing we can do.

We should be innocent of (wicked) intent, even if our actions might be wrong according to those who know better. And I know this is a violation of "deny ignorance"...but if, in some applications, the denying of certain ignorances and our willful continuation of wrongful actions results in our condemnation, is this not best?

I know I'm not saying it well, but I think out court precedents clarify my intent: motive and understanding of the offense being committed, and this is why ignorance may well be bliss: it absolves us of guilt.

[/very buzzed ramble]

reply to post by Praetorius

Good post. Considering your condition, very well-written.

reply to post by TheProphetMark



It is so hard for so many to accept what we are. Animals. Through the release of certain chemicals in the brain, we have a range of emotions: love, hate, fear, joy...

A curious creature, we like to touch things, to break things apart to see how they work.

Just like other animals, the human animal builds nests (homes), searches for food (work), and needs to multiply.

That's it. That's all we are that can be considered on the positive side.

On the negative side, just as other animals kill, so do we. We know of chimp tribes that war with other chimp tribes. We are no different. Throughout man's history we have been in war after war after war. We try to deny this, but it's what we do. It's what we've always done. How can we say we aren't something when we prove it time and time again.

No god has set this creature above any other creature, because we are no better than any other creature.

We live 100% according to our nature, and then we die. That's it.

reply to post by jiggerj
Well, Walter - that was certainly depressing.

I'll have to disagree, at least in part though. Yes, we are for the most part animals - but we are also animals that thankfully have been built/designed what the heck ever in the image of god...which I take as a mental/potential thing, and not merely one of physical construct.

As such, god has, in the promises of the bible, given the gift of eternal life to those who choose to rise above such things and live in a state of love and innocence, accepting the death of another as their own to sinfulness - inadvertent harm be damned. If we live in love and peace with one another, sacrificing our own selfish motivations up on the altar of loving kindness, we might rise above the animals we otherwise qualify as and find ourselves awakening in everlasting life someday.

And breaking with my brethren here - I truly believe that atheists and all sorts of others might find themselves astounded to see the same things as well, barring certain factors.

Have yourself a wonderful evening...and try to see things a bit more on the sunny side, as I need to to myself when there's slightly less chemical assistance in abundance. Be well.

I can see where you are coming from.

Its almost a curse to see life from this side of the fence. It has definitely put me in a depression, made me hate the world, feel like there is nothing i can do, while pulling me back out of it again.

I finally look at life as a duality. For their to be Love, Hate has to exist. For every one side there has to be another. Because with the lack of the other how would you know its opposite?

I think we, as spiritual beings, are innately creatures of Love. But also, being curious, causes us to live and reincarnate (my belief however) as all and different sides of the Human Experience. To make us better understand and to better Love ourselves.

Than i believe once we have learned all there is to learn here in this realm, we move to the next, with greater appreciation of this life. In all its wonderfulness. Yes there is bad, but through adversity we always come out on top. A r3VOLution of sorts.

C+I+H

Interesting topic and good job for attempting to summarize how you feel right now.

Sometimes I wonder too how the antithetic notions of "ignorance is bliss" and "knowledge is misery" are both seemingly precise, yet you would think 'ignorance is misery' and 'knowledge is bliss' just from orthodox thinking. I personally believe a theistic God, in the dogmatic sense, is nonsense. Do you honestly need a cardinal to give you some assurance on that heading? Ask yourself what you actually believe, and if you don't know take your time and figure out.

Isn't knowledge 'good' if it's managed properly—not in placement of genocide, murder, corruption, and greed, but for the greater good of humanity and all living organisms? Isn't ignorance 'bad' if you limit your possibly finite existence to a mere thread of nonchalance?

"It Is Better To Reign In Hell Than To Serve In Heaven," and I wonder why this quote is oh so renowned.

reply to post by Praetorius


Very well written for being intoxicated. I wonder what you would have wrote while sober. I like your post, I really do and trust me I respect believers just as much as I respect non-believers. Keep in mind though, I'm agnostic and I'm still searching for answers. 5 days ago before I started thinking about this subject, I didn't think twice about the idea of God not existing, but now? I'm only 80% that God doesn't exist.

What you've said here so far brings me very much back to one of my recent thoughts on this subject. You mention the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and ignorance being bliss: children have no honest concept of good and evil, they just are. They exist in a state of ignorance, as did - allegedly - Adam and Eve in the supposed garden.

You're right about Children having no concept of Good and Evil but is it because they are born pure? The knowledge of Good and Evil seems to be gained through experience throughout life. When we do finally learn about such knowledge which ultimately results in us not being blissfully ignorant anymore, how is it we know right then and there about the implications of such knowledge being used for good or evil? It feels funny, just thinking about it and I simply just cannot explain it because I don't know how. But for some reason, this feeling alone is the reason why I don't follow dismiss the notion of God.

Thank you for your post. I really appreciate it, a lot.

It's a little ironic that people consider children innocent. They aren't very old when they begin to be one of the meanest creatures on the planet. Socialization changes this, but think about it.

Are they really as innocent as we think them to be?

Originally posted by disgustingfatbody
It's a little ironic that people consider children innocent. They aren't very old when they begin to be one of the meanest creatures on the planet. Socialization changes this, but think about it.

Are they really as innocent as we think them to be?

They are innocent. But like I said, it's what they go through in life that determine who they choose to be. They make their own choices. I don't know, there's just too many implications that I can go on about and I don't even want to talk about it. I was going to get into the subject, how religion was brought into the world to keep people on the right track so this world don't end in chaos. What's the point, it already seems to be in chaos anyways so no point talking about it.

reply to post by TheProphetMark

This is YOUR thread. You can discuss whatever you like.

Haha, again someone who claims he is a "prophet" which thinks he stands above the "normal" people, and then there is some drunk guy in this topic who "writes well".... You've got to be kidding me right? So, to deny ignorance and to be taken serious, you have to be some kind of derailed psychotic self-proclaimed falseprophet or depressed town drunk?

ATS is getting dumber and dumber, but also funnier each day.

reply to post by yougetwhatyoudeserve

Why don't you just say more funner and be done with it.

Originally posted by disgustingfatbody
reply to post by yougetwhatyoudeserve

 

Why don't you just say more funner and be done with it.

Oh yeah I see it now haha, I'm not from the USA, but I am Dutch, here it is just 5:39 in the morning and I've got to get to work in about 10 min's. And it was pretty late last night because I had band rehearsal, so I am still a little bit sleepy right know.

Please forgive me for making spelling mistakes because it's early in the morning, and for me having a fun life, with a job, and friends, and such....

Originally posted by yougetwhatyoudeserve
Haha, again someone who claims he is a "prophet" which thinks he stands above the "normal" people, and then there is some drunk guy in this topic who "writes well".... You've got to be kidding me right? So, to deny ignorance and to be taken serious, you have to be some kind of derailed psychotic self-proclaimed falseprophet or depressed town drunk?

ATS is getting dumber and dumber, but also funnier each day.

edit on 7-6-2012 by yougetwhatyoudeserve because: (no reason given)

Glad to have a troll in my thread. Now where do I "claim" to be a prophet? It's just a username, so get over yourself buddy.