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For Christians: Do your Pre/Mid/Post-tribulation views really matter?

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posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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I do know that it states this in Revelation to the Church of Philadelphia:


Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (Revelation 3:10-13)


After reading the study at this link Seven Letters to the Seven Churches, I am inclined to believe that possibly only those who are living a Christian life such as that which is commended by Jesus to the Church of Philadelphia are/will/would be removed/taken/raptured before the hour of trial/temptation/tribulation.

This is what I understand this passage to infer after reading the explanations and conclusions shared at the link I provided above.
And I read the whole thing, all letters to all churches and the comments regarding each, before I arrived at that understanding.
If anyone else would like to do the same, and discuss your conclusion, I would be very much interested. I feel that it applies to the topic of this thread, insomuch as what I also understood this particular study to infer is that it, in fact, DOES matter what our POV is regarding the timing of the rapture/taking away.

However, I will say that this is something I am still in prayer over and continue to feel somewhat ambivalent about in regard to getting my panties all in a wad over the timing of the rapture/taking away. Mostly because I have not arrived at my own conclusion, through my own understanding and interpretation, nor anything I would
interpret as divine revelation.

Having said that, I do feel like I have been given an important Word on what Jesus Himself expects from those who want to truly live "Christ-like" and to be found as "worthy sinners", because none of us are worthy and we are all sinners. And that Word is to emulate Him by the actions He praises the Church of Philadelphia for.

I understand those actions to include loving each other regardless of what someone else belives and to quit bickering over it because it makes us look like idiots and assholes, and it only serves to discredit His ministry, what He accomplished at the cross, and everything represented and implied therewith.

For me, I feel like the best way for me to live a life that emulates Christ and the most important behavior that He would have on some spiritual "top four or five to do" list for us, since we are ignorant and usually revert back to law-keeping expectations anyway, would include:
1. Love God above and beyond anything else. Including & especially yourself.
2. Love others with a brotherly love to the same degree that you would love yourself and leave the judging to God. This would Include terrorists, Obama (that's a hard one), people who irritate and mock you, people who are committing sin that you know to be wrong but they may not understand why, and regard them with mercy, compassion and grace.....because we've all been given the same on more than one occasion.
3. Repent & confess regularly so that your spirit will have no unredeemed sin at death.
4. Don't eat blood or food that is or has been involved in pagan ceremony(ies).

But, that's just my personal understanding and take, and I am in no way implying that the above is Gospel, nor divinely revealed.




posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by stupid girl
I do know that it states this in Revelation to the Church of Philadelphia:


Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (Revelation 3:10-13)


After reading the study at this link Seven Letters to the Seven Churches, I am inclined to believe that possibly only those who are living a Christian life such as that which is commended by Jesus to the Church of Philadelphia are/will/would be removed/taken/raptured before the hour of trial/temptation/tribulation.

This is what I understand this passage to infer after reading the explanations and conclusions shared at the link I provided above.
And I read the whole thing, all letters to all churches and the comments regarding each, before I arrived at that understanding.
If anyone else would like to do the same, and discuss your conclusion, I would be very much interested. I feel that it applies to the topic of this thread, insomuch as what I also understood this particular study to infer is that it, in fact, DOES matter what our POV is regarding the timing of the rapture/taking away.

However, I will say that this is something I am still in prayer over and continue to feel somewhat ambivalent about in regard to getting my panties all in a wad over the timing of the rapture/taking away. Mostly because I have not arrived at my own conclusion, through my own understanding and interpretation, nor anything I would
interpret as divine revelation.

Having said that, I do feel like I have been given an important Word on what Jesus Himself expects from those who want to truly live "Christ-like" and to be found as "worthy sinners", because none of us are worthy and we are all sinners. And that Word is to emulate Him by the actions He praises the Church of Philadelphia for.

I understand those actions to include loving each other regardless of what someone else belives and to quit bickering over it because it makes us look like idiots and assholes, and it only serves to discredit His ministry, what He accomplished at the cross, and everything represented and implied therewith.

For me, I feel like the best way for me to live a life that emulates Christ and the most important behavior that He would have on some spiritual "top four or five to do" list for us, since we are ignorant and usually revert back to law-keeping expectations anyway, would include:
1. Love God above and beyond anything else. Including & especially yourself.
2. Love others with a brotherly love to the same degree that you would love yourself and leave the judging to God. This would Include terrorists, Obama (that's a hard one), people who irritate and mock you, people who are committing sin that you know to be wrong but they may not understand why, and regard them with mercy, compassion and grace.....because we've all been given the same on more than one occasion.
3. Repent & confess regularly so that your spirit will have no unredeemed sin at death.
4. Don't eat blood or food that is or has been involved in pagan ceremony(ies).

But, that's just my personal understanding and take, and I am in no way implying that the above is Gospel, nor divinely revealed.




Your quote on the church of Philidelphia about being saved from the hour of temptation is a bad quote from a newer bible , the word saved is actually KEPT . How is one KEPT from that hour of temptation . Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 tell us . The churches of Smyrna and Philidelphia both reconize those who say they are of our brother Judah but are of the synagog of Satan.

They reconize that Satans children run the world thru the four horns of power spoken of by Ezekiel . These are Educatin , Politics , Commerce / Finance and most importantly Religion thru false teachings. What did Jesus say in the Garden before he was taken for judgement by the synagog of Satan , the Pharisee . Watch can you not stay awake for one hour. The only thing to save us from this hour is to have on the gospel armor of God and be a good watchman . Waiting to be raptured away to be saved is not the answer , all of the Decipels of Christ were persecuted by Satans children what makes you rapture people think you are that special God will save you all . Not going to happen only by knowing the truth can you be protected until you are delivered up to Satan and then that can only last ten days and if chosen to have the Holy Spirit speak thru you , How blessed be you in that hour of need ?



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 





After reading the study at this link Seven Letters to the Seven Churches, I am inclined to believe that possibly only those who are living a Christian life such as that which is commended by Jesus to the Church of Philadelphia are/will/would be removed/taken/raptured before the hour of trial/temptation/tribulation.


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those ho keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

So obviously, there's something about the commandments of God and Jesus. In his time ministering on earth Jesus said about summing up the Law and the prophets:

Matthew 22:37-39

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

From my own studies there appears to be more than one harpazo (rapture) event, whre i get this from is here:

Revelation14:14-16

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Mods what is wrong with the format in this forums? You underline a few words and instead of those words it underlines the entire damned post? I'm not undermining the OP but this is annoying the crap out of me when i want to make a point.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Azadok2day
 





Waiting to be raptured away to be saved is not the answer , all of the Decipels of Christ were persecuted by Satans children what makes you rapture people think you are that special God will save you all . Not going to happen only by knowing the truth can you be protected until you are delivered up to Satan and then that can only last ten days and if chosen to have the Holy Spirit speak thru you , How blessed be you in that hour of need ?


Belief in a harpazo event is not central to salvation, in fact acknowledging it is not even required. It's best to prepare incase there is not one. We are all that special to YHWH. What did Jesus say about the future believers who could believe without seeing? He said we would be esteemed greater than his own disciples because we can believe without seeing the miracles, when his disciples saw the miracles and still doubted him. We put our faith and trust in him completely without him ever having to prove himself, just like little children do and this is exactly what he was talking about and what he wants.

John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those ho keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

So obviously, there's something about the commandments of God and Jesus. In his time ministering on earth Jesus said about summing up the Law and the prophets:

Matthew 22:37-39

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

From my own studies there appears to be more than one harpazo (rapture) event, whre i get this from is here:

Revelation14:14-16

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.


Yes, love our neighbor as ourself.....loving others with a brotherly love like Jesus commended the Church of Philadelphia for doing.
I think the key is Christians who daily humble themselves and daily interact with other people just like Jesus would have...with compassion, mercy, patience and grace and without judgment and criticism.
But like I said, I still have not arrived at any definitive conclusion about the rapture & when & who, etc. My focus is doing the best I can in not flipping someone off in traffic, not judging the person in front of me at the grocery store who is buying cigarettes and beer with their food stamps, and not getting pissed off at the person who threw their entire McDonald's bag full of crap in my yard. I'm still a work in progress


I thought Rev14:14-16 was talking about either people accepting Jesus (the harvest is ripe, but the workers are few) or an extinction level event....comet hitting earth, earthquake, etc.

and I don't know about the underline business, but for some reason ATS looks GIGANTIC on my screen. Like the big letter Bible or something. Like, capital letters are a little over a quarter of an inch big.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You should check the tags. It could be that you forgot to close them.


reply to post by stupid girl
 

If your mouse has a scroll wheel, you could try holding the Ctrl key and scrolling down. It could be that you accidentally zoomed in a little bit.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by 08051962
 


I don't think one's view on the timing of the rapture matters nearly as much as one's view of the millennium. One will really live differently depending on their point of view on that issue.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by OuttaHere
My sister-in-law, on the other hand, is pre-trib and she views any alternative view as heresy. In fact she was shocked to find out that there even WAS an alternative view.


Wow. She sounds a bit extreme. Even when I hear evangelical pastors talking on their show about pre-trib rapture, I've not once heard any of them even suggest that to believe otherwise was "heresy."
I know I don't think it's heresy to believe whichever view you want. so longas you're prepared for the worst (post-trib)



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by 08051962
I know I don't think it's heresy to believe whichever view you want. so long as you're prepared for the worst (post-trib)

In my books, that's the greater heresy, and strong delusion.


You see, in matters of Jesus Christ and his Great Work, the only thing that ought to matter, is that we're prepared for the very BEST, not the worst.

Best Regards,

NAM


edit on 10-6-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


A "hersey" isn't someone who has a different eschateogical position than you do, or in other words differs from you on a tertiary doctrine. A "heretic" is someone who has an un-Biblical position on the nature of God, the atonement, the deity of the Son, et cetra. Either matters of soeteriology or a primary doctrine. And even in those streams, babes in Christ who are just learning their doctrines, or who don't nail the Trinity after being saved for a week aren't heretics either.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by 08051962
I know I don't think it's heresy to believe whichever view you want. so long as you're prepared for the worst (post-trib)

In my books, that's the greater heresy, and strong delusion.


You see, in matters of Jesus Christ and his Great Work, the only thing that ought to matter, is that we're prepared for the very BEST, not the worst.

edit on 10-6-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



What a RIDICULOUS thing to say! Preparing for the worst is "the strong delusion?" Please re-read Scripture. That is NOT what the strong delusion is.

You wrote "In my books.."
Well, I guess your book(S) isn't the Bible.

Yes, I said prepare for the worst but guess what? By doing so, you're also preparing for the best. Period.

I don't think I'm the delusional one here.

You seem to throw the term "heresy" around willy nilly. I'd suggest not doing that.
edit on 19-6-2012 by 08051962 because: (no reason given)



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