How to be spirtual in today's age, with logic and reason, and without stone age religion?

Hello All,

I'm inquiring as to how people who aren't infected by the world's only communicable disease (aka 'religion' / 'creationism' / 'if you don't listen to me you go to hell' types...), are able to / what you do (how etc.) to be spiritual?

Personally, I am agnostic w/ karma leanings. I don't believe their is a single deity controlling all aspects of everything (if you believe so, don't participate in this thread, as this isn't a debate thread). But I do believe their may be "higher energies" or "karma" or "something" that is not God, or creation related, but that some force connects us?

Errr, hard to explain. Anyhow, how do some of you (who aren't bible thumpers), be spiritual?

Do I have to find some buddhist monks?

reply to post by Confusion42


Contemplate the unconveivable. Focus your intentional awareness to that which resides inside yourself. Go past the body, past the mind, and feel the deeper essence that it is the Universal seed within you. Know thyself in a way void of explanation. Experience yourself in a way that words, nor any form of communication, can describe. Search your soul for answers regarding your own existence.

Find the Universe, and all that inhabits it, the people, the worlds, the galaxies, deep inside yourself.

reply to post by Confusion42

I'd say willingness and open-mindedness ie: being non-judgemental and forgiving, wherein we come to recognize that absolute forgiveness and non-judgement = absolute freedom to be ourselves as we are. Also to be real and authentic, we must come to realize that who we are being at any given moment is just a creation and a role we're playing and that we are not neccessarily who we think we are or thought we were, so it's all about non-bias and acceptance of ourselves and others as we are, without trying to BE anthing in particular, or to be one thing so as to avoid something else. Within this state of openness and receptivity, we may even be free to consider any and all spiritual traditions and ancient wisdom literature and teachings in recognition that a lot of work might have gone into those realizations and understandings, and that they too might not be what we've come to assume with a strong bias.

"There is a principal which serves as a bar against all information and proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a person in everlasting ignorance. That principal is - contempt, prior to investigation."
~ Herbert Spencer.

There's a part of me that kind of looks down on them. Feels sorry for them. I've had a lot of practice though because in my 35 years I've had to watch my mother not progress at all emotionally or intellectually because she believes in the bible and tries very hard to live by the word of God. Whatever that is.

It's kind of sad really to see people like that. I believe that if you do good things, good things will come back to you. I've seen it first hand in my own life and I see no reason to believe that it won't happen when I die. I try not to speculate on that too much because there is no way I'll ever know for certain what will happen when I die, and neither does anyone else.

I like to try and keep things simple, and just by doing that it seems I distance myself from the religious crowd. It just seems that they complicate things without even knowing it, and it gets them nowhere.

Originally posted by Confusion42
Hello All,

I'm inquiring as to how people who aren't infected by the world's only communicable disease (aka 'religion' / 'creationism' / 'if you don't listen to me you go to hell' types...), are able to / what you do (how etc.) to be spiritual?

Personally, I am agnostic w/ karma leanings. I don't believe their is a single deity controlling all aspects of everything (if you believe so, don't participate in this thread, as this isn't a debate thread). But I do believe their may be "higher energies" or "karma" or "something" that is not God, or creation related, but that some force connects us?

Errr, hard to explain. Anyhow, how do some of you (who aren't bible thumpers), be spiritual?

Do I have to find some buddhist monks?

edit on 7-6-2012 by Confusion42 because: (no reason given)

We are spiritual beings my friend...

Everything you do is "spiritual"... but there is positive and negative thoughts and deeds...

Know what is right... and trust in that...

Listen to your heart...

I appreciate the responses.

But, I want to know, what do people *DO* that is spiritual (for the purposes of being spiritual not as part of everyday life)

Or rather, what activities do people do outside of day to day stuff, that is spiritually focused?

reply to post by Confusion42


I'll disregard the (hopefully) unintentional insults to my beliefs here.

Could you possibly clarify what you mean by "being spiritual", though? I'm at a bit of a loss otherwise.

Anyhow, light and love, grace and peace to you, from one of the "infected".

reply to post by Confusion42


Meditation

It helps you get "in touch" with the world around you... And helps you realize your inner spirit as well...

Help others in any way you can...

Give freely without expecting anything in return...

Theres lots of spiritual things... but all tie into my previous reply

Read this if you have some time...

Who are you?

"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-- Socrates

It is fairly simple to be a theist, without throwing logic completely out the window. All you really need to do, is acknowledge the fact (and in my mind it is a fact) that you are never going to know absolutely everything. Atheism's single biggest problem, is that it tends to make an initial assumption that it does.

I believe in God, and tentatively in the Afterlife, but I'm also entirely open to the idea that when I die, it's completely possible that I'll find absolutely nothing there, and I will cease to exist entirely. As far as I'm concerned, you have to be open to both possibilities, in order to consider yourself (what I at least define as) genuinely scientific.

I am also arrogant in my own way, in that I tend to believe that many atheists, in turn, really know very little in practice about what real science (at least as an attitude, if not the method itself) truly is. However, I feel that I can say in my own defense, that my arrogance has at least some knowledge of science's history as its' basis. If you make your own inquiry into the matter, you will discover that nearly all of the greatest scientists, who contributed knowledge of the fundamental things on which our society depends, had one thing in common; and that is that most of them were outcasts.

The majority of humanity's greatest minds have tended to be reclusive. They have not enjoyed mainstream acceptance, and they have tended to have ideas which were radically opposed to orthodoxy; and this was because the basis of their ideas, was real, practical experience. You will note that the words experiment and experience both share the first six letters, and I would submit that that is not a coincidence.

In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue, but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
-- Mark Twain

A precedent that I draw from, as far as my own attitude towards theism is concerned, is the historical case of scurvy, during the mid to late 18th century. Scurvy killed a very large number of sailors over a period of some three centuries, from the 15th century to the 18th. Of course, we know today that the disease was caused by a deficiency of vitamin C, but at the time the concept of vitamins was unknown.

Several captains, however, started getting the idea of carrying citrus fruit and sauerkraut on board their ships, and in his treatise on the subject, James Lind recommended growing watercress on the medium of a wet blanket.

The point of my mentioning this, is that the people at the time did not know about the exact cause behind what cured or prevented scurvy, but they were able to observe its' effects.

Belief in God, or in certain other things typically considered to be associated with the paranormal, can be the same. In speaking to a number of different people, (and in my own case) I have found a solid, reasonably extensive (and this is much more thorough than mere tabloid columns, mind you) knowledge of astrology to be therapeutically beneficial. Now, if you were to ask me what the principles of astrology's operation were, I could only speculate. I would not be able to give you a definitive answer. But because I have been able to generate a discernibly beneficial effect from it, and have been able to do so reasonably consistently, the fact that I do not precisely understand why it works, is not of critical importance.

This is not to say that you should not try to understand causes, of course. If you can, then by all means. You will find that your ability to use anything will be incredibly enhanced by doing so, because then you will be able to maximise the desired effect, or change other things to your liking.

I find myself, however, that a real hypothesis does not necessarily come before an experiment, but very often actually after it, when the mind actually has a greater idea through observation, of what is really going on. So there is an impromptu, seat of the pants effect, and at least at first, intuition plays a major role.

Some atheists or materialists here, will no doubt reprimand me over having perhaps redefined some of what they see as their own vocabulary, but to that I will respond that my own definition of words is based on that which I have found to work. An atheist's reprimand of me is usually drawn from second hand theory, as mentioned, whereas my own response will be drawn from direct experience.

If I am to be judged, let me be judged on that basis.

Might I recommend a marvellous book by Andre Compte Sponville,
The Book of Atheist Spirituality
To anyone who has pondered this question.

Amazon link

It is brilliantly written and for anybody who wonders if spirituality, morality and ethics can exist outside of religion this book will enlighten you. It doesn't bash religion but merely uses intelligent logical argument to show how spirituality is not the preserve of the religions of the world.
Its a book that you will refer to for the rest of your life, it will stimulate and enrich the wonder and enjoyment of life far beyond anything that I myself could explain.
Try it. If you are serious about atheism and fulfillment of your humanity and wish to live in harmony, peace and love, this is a great start.

Originally posted by Confusion42
Hello All,

I'm inquiring as to how people who aren't infected by the world's only communicable disease (aka 'religion' / 'creationism' / 'if you don't listen to me you go to hell' types...), are able to / what you do (how etc.) to be spiritual?

Personally, I am agnostic w/ karma leanings. I don't believe their is a single deity controlling all aspects of everything (if you believe so, don't participate in this thread, as this isn't a debate thread). But I do believe their may be "higher energies" or "karma" or "something" that is not God, or creation related, but that some force connects us?

Errr, hard to explain. Anyhow, how do some of you (who aren't bible thumpers), be spiritual?

Do I have to find some buddhist monks?

edit on 7-6-2012 by Confusion42 because: (no reason given)

I'm sure you will get plenty of poetic explanations of spirituality, or how you should find your "inner-self" and explore your own love and universe and what have you. The problem is they're all attempting to explain the same thing, but they try to one-up each other with more and more beautiful passages. This is great, but sometimes it gets a little monotonous and repetitive. It's like the goal is to see who can speak the most beautifully.

Here's a different and more subversive interpretation of spirituality, one that I assure you has only one follower: Spirituality is a prison. It's a distaste for everything worldly and real. It's an attempt to escape yourself and your universe. It's a hope—a hope that there is something more to life, something unapparent where everyone can attain superhuman powers and live an eternal existence of ease.

In reality, spirituality is the process of exploring yourself, and not being satisfied with what you find.

I participate in daily meditation and regular visioning. I believe that we are all of one and all equally filled with joy and potential for enlightenment.

Aside from looking within, I volunteer a great deal to help my community and my 'spiritual home'.

Namaste'

Or you can listen to LesMisanthrope ideas and chase after treasures of the material world... Which bring no peace or happyness...

The choice is always up to you

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
In reality, spirituality is the process of exploring yourself, and not being satisfied with what you find.

Excellent summary, but is it ok when we find it, that distasteful thing that we were, to laugh out loud about it when it comes to the light of awareness, is it ok to forgive, because if it always comes us as unsatisfying and without humor at the absurdity of it, then I want no part of it!

So to that I would add that spirituality involves the restoration of our sense of humor, at the expense of every aspect of our prior ignorance.

The spiritual man is the happy man, the laughing man, who on self-reflection just can't bring himself to take himself all that seriously.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

"Life is a Mighty Joke. He who knows this can hardly be understood by others. He who does not know it finds himself in a state of delusion. He may ponder over this problem day and night, but will find himself incapable of knowing it. Why? People take life seriously, and God lightly; whereas we must take God seriously, and take life lightly. Then, we know that we always were the same and will ever remain the same.......the Originator of this joke. This knowledge is not acheived by reasoning.
But it is the knowledge of experience."

~ Meher Baba

by "God" I think he means the all-in-all, the center and the source and the spirit of the universe/spirit of life itself as it really is.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Confusion42
Hello All,

I'm inquiring as to how people who aren't infected by the world's only communicable disease (aka 'religion' / 'creationism' / 'if you don't listen to me you go to hell' types...), are able to / what you do (how etc.) to be spiritual?

Personally, I am agnostic w/ karma leanings. I don't believe their is a single deity controlling all aspects of everything (if you believe so, don't participate in this thread, as this isn't a debate thread). But I do believe their may be "higher energies" or "karma" or "something" that is not God, or creation related, but that some force connects us?

Errr, hard to explain. Anyhow, how do some of you (who aren't bible thumpers), be spiritual?

Do I have to find some buddhist monks?

edit on 7-6-2012 by Confusion42 because: (no reason given)

I'm sure you will get plenty of poetic explanations of spirituality, or how you should find your "inner-self" and explore your own love and universe and what have you. The problem is they're all attempting to explain the same thing, but they try to one-up each other with more and more beautiful passages. This is great, but sometimes it gets a little monotonous and repetitive. It's like the goal is to see who can speak the most beautifully.

Here's a different and more subversive interpretation of spirituality, one that I assure you has only one follower: Spirituality is a prison. It's a distaste for everything worldly and real. It's an attempt to escape yourself and your universe. It's a hope—a hope that there is something more to life, something unapparent where everyone can attain superhuman powers and live an eternal existence of ease.

In reality, spirituality is the process of exploring yourself, and not being satisfied with what you find.

That is certainly one way to look at it. Yes, you will never be satisfied with what you find because you are human. Even the most spiritual beings on earth still feel heartache.

As far as hope goes... for me it's not hope, it's faith. I don't hope, I believe. Part of internal enlightenment is letting people believe what they want with no judgement. I believe what I believe to be true and that's it for me. Whether others believe is of no relevance to my life and I treat them no differently.

Logic and Reason can only guide you in regard to the things that Mans infantile brain can comprehend; in my experience they are mental traps designed to keep you from spirituality. Meditate and let your spirit guide you.

Originally posted by Akragon

Or you can listen to LesMisanthrope ideas and chase after treasures of the material world... Which bring no peace or happyness...

The choice is always up to you

There's no difference in chasing after treasures in the material world or the immaterial world. Same thing. But what I was really saying was: Try not to deceive yourself, and love yourself.

Originally posted by Confusion42
I appreciate the responses.

But, I want to know, what do people *DO* that is spiritual (for the purposes of being spiritual not as part of everyday life)

Or rather, what activities do people do outside of day to day stuff, that is spiritually focused?

Some say we're "just" God "Godding", but if that's the case, I have the same question:
Just how the heck would a person go about DOing such a thing!? It's absurd, and imho, very funny, and for me proves that "being spiritual" is impossible, and that all we can do is be who we are, and to do that, we have to simply have the courage, and the audacity, to be authentically inauthentic!

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Akragon

Or you can listen to LesMisanthrope ideas and chase after treasures of the material world... Which bring no peace or happyness...

The choice is always up to you

There's no difference in chasing after treasures in the material world or the immaterial world. Same thing. But what I was really saying was: Try not to deceive yourself, and love yourself.

Oh but there is a vast difference... One that a person can only realize when he/she chases the immaterial...

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Personally i prefer "love others as yourself"... but i'll give you a star anyways...

For if you only love yourself, what thanks have ye...

At least you're pointed in the right direction though

reply to post by Confusion42


I breathe