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Slapped in the Face by ATF Today

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 



I would wonder more why someone just wanted one. If you had grown up around gun collectors, you'd know that one is never enough. And that they are some of the safest people to possess them because they are usually under lock and key, polished, shined and protected from dust.

Now the fellow that just wants one for the purpose of having it....

Let em, but that sets off more of a red flag than the person who collects.


That’s what I would think….hence the old 24 hour cool-off period for purchases.


And to address the OP, it's a shame that you were in the military, where it's your duty to carry and protect the country, but when you look for personal possession it becomes a problem.


That is a shame but they likely don’t know that from a quick check. I’d imagine they use TCIC/NCIC or something like that but I don’t know…same stuff a detective could pull up, which wouldn’t show things like that.

It is sad though…I had to bite my tongue because I’m a reasonable guy and I knew the lady working there didn’t deserve the reaming I wanted to give the ATF!



Let's hope this is just a misunderstanding as from what you have told us, there seems to be no reason for you to be scrutinized.


Fingers crossed!

Thanks for the response.




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by alfa1
 



Yeah? So hows that working out for you?

Americans keep saying that they need guns to protect themselves against the government, but lets face it, it'll never happen. Much like the brave keyboard cowboys here on ATS who read about some police related outrage and swear "If that ever happened to me, there'd be a lot less police going home alive that evening."... its all talk.


It’s working out great! I bet I have more freedom than you!


The guns are here, and there are a good number of people who will use them for that if the need arises, but ALL OF US hope that won’t be necessary. For now they're just for recreational use. I kill a lot of paper these days (and occasionally dinner).


And now citizens have so many guns in the society, guns are needed to protect against other citizens.


There are guns in every society. The difference in the US is that the number of guns in the hands of law abiding citizens far outweighs those in the hands of criminals; that’s reassuring!! Too bad you don’t know how that feels!


edit on 7-6-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 



well i think that's the best thing that could have happened. if you were smart, from now on, the only gun purchases you make would come from private sales. no need in the state or atf to know what your packin.
because when they do come looking for our guns, it's the ones with the paper trail they will go for first.

oh ra
semper fi


I quit caring about that! I’m sure I’m already on that ‘list’ based on DHS’s latest criteria!

You likely are too!


Semper Fi (the gift that keeps on giving)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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Hmm. As I understand it, you purchase a gun. The store calls it in to NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System). They receive the OK in seconds. The ATF does not keep a record. The store keeps Form 4473 in a "Bound Book." If someone buys two or more guns within a five day period, that has to be reported separately. In my state, There is an automatic 3-day waiting period for handguns unless you have a Concealed Carry permit, in which case there is no waiting period.

Isn't that how this works?

SO, the issue is, why were you tagged with the NICS? It could be random, but they don't normally stand in your way. Please do post the results.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by Urbanshadow
 


Instead of a license to kill - its a license to steal. it because the government wanted to do stuff like TV License. thats right - your TV needs a License if you watch TV, and firearms and BS Fee's and Licenses have a tendancy to fill pine boxes and prison cells. Welcome to the UK suckers....



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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It never fails....theres alwas a crop of so smarmy brits to post their version of gun ownership, or non ownership.....and then prescribe it for everone else......
meantime how many people get beaten up at football games on this side of the pond?
Hooligans, mulligans, and all the rest of it in briatin, riots in the streets, and nobody can feel secure in their home....
yet the criminals seem to have all the guns they need dont they?
Maybe less people getting shot in the UK, but wa more being offed in other nefarious ways too.....
Murder comes in all guises to every society......
It so happens that this is recognised by the people and those who are not criminals allowed to possess guns to defend their homes, their persons, their country, and their liberty.
Its no secret that the first year Florida initiated the concealed carry permits,Citizens prevented more crimes in progress than did the police forces........
The right to bear arms WAS a british common law right at one time.....but they were duped into giving up this right, and now they are sour grapes on everyone who hasnt ..........was a time when only a million determined armed british citizens stood between the island and the mighty Nazi Whermacht......unfortunately that could never happen now as most brits dont know one end from the other any more......



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
Hmm. As I understand it, you purchase a gun. The store calls it in to NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System). They receive the OK in seconds. The ATF does not keep a record. The store keeps Form 4473 in a "Bound Book." If someone buys two or more guns within a five day period, that has to be reported separately. In my state, There is an automatic 3-day waiting period for handguns unless you have a Concealed Carry permit, in which case there is no waiting period.

Isn't that how this works?

SO, the issue is, why were you tagged with the NICS? It could be random, but they don't normally stand in your way. Please do post the results.


He didnt mention the type of weapon. Certain types will def require ATF registration. There should be a form and list or criteria on the ATF website. I just cant recall if the tax ( couple hundred) is on the shop or the purchaser or if its rolled into the purchase price. LOL! If the husband was here Id be able to ask him and he would know.. and then I wouldnt be hanging out here with some sort of Sometimers precursor to Dementia..



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by schuyler
 



Hmm. As I understand it, you purchase a gun. The store calls it in to NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System). They receive the OK in seconds. The ATF does not keep a record. The store keeps Form 4473 in a "Bound Book." If someone buys two or more guns within a five day period, that has to be reported separately. In my state, There is an automatic 3-day waiting period for handguns unless you have a Concealed Carry permit, in which case there is no waiting period.

Isn't that how this works?


That sounds about right to me except there is no 3 day wait in Texas for handguns (I was buying a rifle anyway).


SO, the issue is, why were you tagged with the NICS? It could be random, but they don't normally stand in your way. Please do post the results.


No impact – no idea! I wish I knew!

My record is clean…always has been. I’ve heard from two people now that this “hold” is akin to a random drug test at work; I drew the unlucky number I guess.

I’ll post the results on or before 6/13 (which is when they said to come back unless I hear from the store earlier).



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by schuyler
 



Hmm. As I understand it, you purchase a gun. The store calls it in to NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System). They receive the OK in seconds. The ATF does not keep a record. The store keeps Form 4473 in a "Bound Book." If someone buys two or more guns within a five day period, that has to be reported separately. In my state, There is an automatic 3-day waiting period for handguns unless you have a Concealed Carry permit, in which case there is no waiting period.

Isn't that how this works?


That sounds about right to me except there is no 3 day wait in Texas for handguns (I was buying a rifle anyway).


SO, the issue is, why were you tagged with the NICS? It could be random, but they don't normally stand in your way. Please do post the results.


No impact – no idea! I wish I knew!

My record is clean…always has been. I’ve heard from two people now that this “hold” is akin to a random drug test at work; I drew the unlucky number I guess.

I’ll post the results on or before 6/13 (which is when they said to come back unless I hear from the store earlier).




It was JUST a rifle?? Now THATS weird!



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by 1BornPatriot
 



Instead of a license to kill - its a license to steal. it because the government wanted to do stuff like TV License. thats right - your TV needs a License if you watch TV, and firearms and BS Fee's and Licenses have a tendancy to fill pine boxes and prison cells. Welcome to the UK suckers....


I can assure you the second amendment will be the LAST freedom to disappear; that’s why we have it!





posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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My understanding is that this happens when people have a common name or when there is an issue with the people responsible for checking communicating with another dept.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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yeah.....go to a gun show..... Here in Texas it's no check.....
buy em from the policemen there!
edit on 7-6-2012 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I remember when my brother-in-law was getting his Glock they made him go to the sheriffs office for an ID check. There was a guy in Alabama with his name that was wanted and a felon to boot. He got his gun the next day. When it come to firearms I believe a person to person buy is better for your gun safety since then the sale is not in their system.

If they know what you have then they know what to look for and seize.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
Thank you for your service with the USMC.
You are right to feel that this is a slap in the face. If the problem is not rectified quickly, call your US Congressman and Senators.
It is crap. The supposed purpose of the instant background check was to get things done quickly and separate the good from the bad guys.

Please keep us up to date with what happens.


That is unacceptable. For some reason, it would seem that former active duty Marines are considered a threat nowadays...probably because they are informed, well trained killers and perhaps a bit jaded, nonetheless...you have a God given right to buy that weapon and it's no ones business as to why you want it. Semper Fi Devildog...fight for your rights and stand your ground...you've earned it.

sincerely,
Your fellow Veteran



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by stirling
 



It never fails....theres alwas a crop of so smarmy brits to post their version of gun ownership, or non ownership.....and then prescribe it for everone else......

meantime how many people get beaten up at football games on this side of the pond?

Hooligans, mulligans, and all the rest of it in briatin, riots in the streets, and nobody can feel secure in their home....

yet the criminals seem to have all the guns they need dont they?


I don’t take offense. You can’t miss what you never had!


Maybe less people getting shot in the UK, but wa more being offed in other nefarious ways too.....
Murder comes in all guises to every society......

It so happens that this is recognised by the people and those who are not criminals allowed to possess guns to defend their homes, their persons, their country, and their liberty.

Its no secret that the first year Florida initiated the concealed carry permits,Citizens prevented more crimes in progress than did the police forces........


Violent crimes happen in every country every day. OBVIOUSLY the crime against people who can defend themselves (by whatever means) is lower; common sense.


The right to bear arms WAS a british common law right at one time.....but they were duped into giving up this right, and now they are sour grapes on everyone who hasnt ..........was a time when only a million determined armed british citizens stood between the island and the mighty Nazi Whermacht......unfortunately that could never happen now as most brits dont know one end from the other any more......


WOW! That IS a little known fact; certainly new to me. That should give people who are for AND against second amendment something to think about.

Thanks for the information! A star for you for teaching me something new today!


edit on 7-6-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 



He didnt mention the type of weapon. Certain types will def require ATF registration. There should be a form and list or criteria on the ATF website.


I’ve purchased various types of weapons (pistols, shotguns and rifles) and the ATF check is the same for all.

I am over 21 (not by much
) and am legal to buy all of these types. The only things seriously regulated are fully automatic weapons and explosive devices (for obvious reasons..you're not likely to hunt deer with a rocket launcher).



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 



My understanding is that this happens when people have a common name or when there is an issue with the people responsible for checking communicating with another dept.


How many SEABAG’s do you know? My name isn’t common!


It was a reputable store and the ATF check was done in-store and online. Apparently the store receives a response from ATF after 15-20 minutes. The response they received in this case was “ATF hold” rather than “approved” or “denied.”



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by GBP/JPY
 



yeah.....go to a gun show..... Here in Texas it's no check..... buy em from the policemen there!


I hate to punch a gaping hole in your story but….

I live in Texas!



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by fnpmitchreturns
 



I remember when my brother-in-law was getting his Glock they made him go to the sheriffs office for an ID check. There was a guy in Alabama with his name that was wanted and a felon to boot. He got his gun the next day.


I can see that…that makes sense. In my case, the last firearm I purchased was 2 months ago…at THAT STORE…so obviously there was no mix up!


I appreciate the reason for the laws, and I understand and agree with the reason your brother-in-law got held up.


When it come to firearms I believe a person to person buy is better for your gun safety since then the sale is not in their system.

If they know what you have then they know what to look for and seize.


Unfortunately in this day and age in America it is better; you’re right! But why has our country devolved to this level? When it’s MUCH easier to get a gun on the black market or through private party sale I think there is a big disconnect.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Well, not literally but it definitely pissed me off. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum but I figured I’d get the best results posting it here!

So after a few weeks of shopping around I settled on the new firearm I wanted to purchase. I went to a reputable, local dealer (if you live in US you've heard of the place) and filled out the usual ATF background info. Long story short - I was notified that I am on 'ATF hold' until further review of my background and I was forced to walk out of this establishment empty handed.

I feel completely furious and insulted that some ass-hat at ATF kept me from legally buying a firearm because he wants to "further review" my record. I pay my taxes, I had (past tense) a concealed license for several years, I own many firearms and I have absolutely NO criminal record whatsoever. After spending 8 years of my life actively serving my country in the Marine Corps, the thought that some FED pencil pusher has the authority to prevent me from exercising my 2nd amendment right to legally purchase and possess a firearm makes my blood boil.




Someone PLEASE tell me this is a common occurrence. If anyone can shed some light on this practice I would appreciate it.


It is common, unfortunately.



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