If god was proven, then what?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by cuervo

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

Why do you believe God and evolution can't co-exist?

Because both the church and the scientific community insist they are at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum.

It will be that way until science and spirituality becomes indistinguishable. We're getting there.

Opinions of man...

All one has to do is look around this world... IF said person can "see" God is all around him... said person might also see that everything grows "evolves" and dies...such is all things in the physical "chaotic" world...

Is a man not mearly a more "developed" child?

Science seeks to prove that one creature can turn into another... when the answer is right before everyone eyes, yet they do not see it...

IF one realizes the error of his ways... and seeks to change his ways for the better and therefore changes his state of mind... and being...

Isn't that evolution?

Fractal Evolution from my point of view. The single animal/human evolve thru their life. The species evolve thru the generation. The soul evolves thru eternity?

Being stagnant/the same is an illussion. Everything change from something to something even particles since time have elapsed and something in the (whole) enviroment have changes around them.

There is no answer ...

The presence of God, is irrelevant to theory of evolution ... except in the sense, that he could step forward and declare it right or wrong.

Originally posted by loglady

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
I'm a guy who is 50/50 on the whole god thing. I wish 100% I could be proven that a god exists but in reality a god just doesn't make sense in the whole grand scheme of things. More and more it seems we have all been deceived by false prophets claiming to be a god so we would worship them and give them what they want. Regardless though...having a god would be the best thing for humanity. 100% proof of no god would be the end of our demise.

100% proof of no god would be the end of our demise........and the start of our incline ?
I totally agree with you, it would be the start of a beautiful new Dawn of reason, harmony and intelligence.........

But to be honest I don't think that's what you ment was it?

Maybe your perception of god is a little influenced by the bible? It seems that it is the humans beliving in old views of god that have an issue with science proving how the universe works to some degree. We should be questioning all our knowledge always (even science and religons) to be sure we are not missing something. If we do not seek knowledge and wisdom we will never find it. What did the bible say. Seek and you shall find. One of the things the bible got right at least.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I assume the OP meant the Christian god, and not -- say, Zeus or Thor or Krishna. If that is the case, your reply fits my answer x100.

reply to post by jiggerj


To see what he drops!

/random

Originally posted by EddyR3
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

When you understand the whole plan of God

Im sorry but this crops up more often than not when Religious believers are questioned over Diseased children, disabled people, amputees etc etc, and the answer is always the same "Its part of God's plan"

So the immediate response is "What is God's plan"?

To that response, which i have had numerous times is "You wont understand, its God's plan, but you will find out soon enough"

So, going back to it, what is the purpose for the suffering in God's plan? Im not going to sit here and spout about how bad God's plan seems, and again, it was God's option to give us a free-thinking intelligent mind, but to my free-thinking intelligent mind, God's plan sucks so far and i dont see any real purpose or an rational purpose as to why so many people should suffer, because Eve done a 'boo-boo' and ate an apple as dictated to by a talking snake. If you ask me, it all sounds a bit....un-Godly so far.....

You are capible of understanding at any moment if God chooses for this to be the time of your understanding, but you are not humble nor contrite, which are the traits God asks His people to look for in answering the questions to all things in life.

Only once God has humbled you and given you a contrite spirit will you be able to recieve the truth of God, your mind indicates this is not that time. I am sure this response will not satisfy you but it is the truth. it is not my job to show you God's plan, it is God's; He does the calling, and with your mind, it is clear that calling has not begun yet. Most of His plan is laid out in my posting earlier, if you want to have a good start. But you are not asking for any reason other then to find fault, of which I will not oblige you at this time.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


The problem with this "believer" explanation of "free-will" is that it doesn't add up for anyone who routinely uses logic and cognition to solve actual problems in the real world. In all honesty, it is a very primitive, child-like notion which requires all reason and accountability to be tossed out like so much garbage.This explanation has thrilled believers for millennia, but it does not follow that it will ever work for non-believers, who apparently lack the genetic material required to "believe" this explanation "explains" or "answers" anything.

In short, the notion that an infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent creator god made the entire universe, but didn't foresee Lucifer's rebellion, Adam and Eve's disobedience, or 6000+ years of pain, death and destruction is untenable. Such a being would by definition be finite, exist in time, and "know" even less than you or I do, and wouldn't comprise any definition of "god" that anyone could agree with.

None of this precludes a maker, of course, but it pretty much disqualifies the angry Jewish one, just as it disqualifies most, if not all of the other "human" gods.

Why is the 'whole plan of God' available to some, and not to others?

Because this is not the age of salvation, this is the age of man. The plan of God is only meant to be understood by a few in this age, if God calls you to this truth He will make this understood plainly. God dwells in His people, I know nothing of myself, but the spirit of God in me knows.

If God is what is claimed to him, it would be impossible for any mortal to understand. Are you stating you are immortal and part God's 'army' so to speak?

No, I am human; I know only a fraction of the mind of God, the portion He shares with me to the degree it is best for my spiritual groth in this age.

How can you POSSIBLY know what God will do and when?

I cannot know, it is not possible. But Jesus Christ has made possible for God to dwell in the minds of mankind by serving as our Passover Lamb, who takes away our sins; God will not dwell in sin, therefore until this perfect sacrifice was accomplished none could know the plan. But the spirit of God that dwells in me knows, and is sharing that knowledge to those that are humble and contrite in spirit.

God Bless,

And just to clarify that every claim, statement and 'truth' here said by the religious followers/believers/faith enthusiasts is taken from the Bible to which is a literal account of the life and death of Jesus Christ, the son of God?

Have i got that right?

I love your post.

The problem with this "believer" explanation of "free-will" is that it doesn't add up for anyone who routinely uses logic and cognition to solve actual problems in the real world. In all honesty, it is a very primitive, child-like notion which requires all reason and accountability to be tossed out like so much garbage.This explanation has thrilled believers for millennia, but it does not follow that it will ever work for non-believers

Correct and by design in this age.

In short, the notion that an infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent creator god made the entire universe, but didn't foresee Lucifer's rebellion, Adam and Eve's disobedience, or 6000+ years of pain, death and destruction is untenable. Such a being would by definition be finite, exist in time, and "know" even less than you or I do, and wouldn't comprise any definition of "god" that anyone could agree with.

He foresaw it all, He knew what Lucifer would do and created him as he is by design, when you understand why evil was created (in time you will) you will understand the mercy of the physical realm and the perfection of God's plan.

He also knew what Adam and Eve would do, Jesus Christ had been purposed from before the creation of the angelic realm to be needed in salvation, God was not reacting to the garden sin, it was expected and by design, purhaps billions of years ago.

God Bless,

Originally posted by EddyR3
reply to post by jhill76

 

So, are you saying that you believe the Bible is not an actual account or the words of God himself? If thats the case, then how does anyone know anything about said God? Since its only the Bible that has any account of God in it

** By bible i use the term colloquially for 'God like Book' so this could be any of the holy books from various religions across the world **

Why not stop caring about what one view (religons) say and go to the core what they all hint at. How do you awaken spiritually/find god/connect to the other side/increase your frequancy/become encased in light?

You can reach a place (for instance London) from different directions. Just because Christianety say you can only reach it one way (from the east swiming in the cold water from my point of view) do not mean they are right. Many people who are religous do not understand their own religon (a viewpoint and I might be wrong but if they truly did and follow it would they not wake up?). All religon is from human views of god and are based on perception and the mind of the human.

I have had a Eureka moment that changed my mind perception of reality and gave me a larger understanding. But I do not have all the data I want and probably not the brain capacity to understand even the things I have done on this planet in my life and definelty not able to understand exactly what is going on right now at this moment on a planet scale.

I know my view of god and everything will be wrong (not 100% right). And it does not make any differance. I do not need to be right.

reply to post by Tbrooks76


Hi Tbrooks76

Just like to say that I like the idea behind your thread, this time a year ago I was an atheist and i'm not sure how I would have answered your question, its not something i'd ever thought about. I'd like to start by mentioning that as a child i did believe in God even though my parents didn't and it was never really something i had ever been taught about, then i went to school and was taught science and this seemed to make me think that the big bang theory was more plausible as it could be proved with science, whereas no one could prove God to me, so i spent the rest of my life upto the age of 26 being an atheist.

I always wanted to believe in God but just needed proof, a guy at work said to me ''just ask him to show the truth to you and he'll give you a sign'', i must admit i felt really really silly asking this question to a God that i wasn't even sure existed but i did it a couple of times and in october last year it hit both me and my husband at the same time, God exists!

now here is a short version of the lead up to this major revelation for me, i was learning things about the world that shocked me to the core, secrets that are kept from us to keep everyone constantly living in fear, the level of corruption and cover ups sickened me, and the hold that the oil, pharma, media corporations (and many more) have over us was horrifying. in a nut shell, i started to learn about the sort of issues that are discussed on ats, although at this time i wasn't aware of sites like these.

my husband was brought up in a family of jehovah's witnesses but didn't follow their teachings as the stuff being taught made no sense and he had seen the religion brake his family up. but it was because of his back ground that stuff had started to make sense and he picked up a bible and started to read revelations out to me, i was amazed by how much sense it made in comparison with the world i had recently started to learn about and the evil which now seems to be manipulating us on a massive scale, within a space of an hour i had no doubt that god existed. God had put it all in a book so we wouldn't be fooled at the end.

this was the beginning of a new me, i've finally learnt to stop worrying about little things all the time, i no longer spend my time obsessing over the way i look and wanting to change every little thing about my appearance, i've finally learned to love my self, and from learning to love myself i have now have stronger feelings on all subjects, and sometimes this is a good thing as i can appreciate the beauty in this world, but on the opposite end sometimes i can't help but cry and get angry when i see the injustice, i suppose for me i'm trying to say i feel more human and that life now has a purpose.

another thing i will say is that before i was a believer i used to ask ''if god was real why would he let all these horrible things happen?'', it turns out i was asking the wrong question and should have been asking ''would god do these things?'' the answer to this is obviously no, so then who is responsible for all of the evil, well, in my opinion its obvious, satan!

sorry for the long winded post,

thank you

Originally posted by Tbrooks76
I posted this on another post, but thinking about it, I wanted to see it as it's own thread just to get opinions.
This not a debate about creation or evolution, more of personal curiosity question.

I believe in God, and if someone proved to me without a dough, 100% evolution was real, I would admit I would be...disappointed, but I would move on and except it without too much complaining. Thats an honest answer, to best I believe I can prodict my own feelings, but you never know till it happens.

Now for the atheist and/or agnostic, I know its very much a hypothetical questions but...
If someone or something came along tomorrow that 100% without a dough proved God was real how would you feel about it.

Please, think about it for real, and try to answer honest, you found out God was real, Whats the reaction?


ok seen some post asking about evolution and creation...

NO!!!!
...lets not go to what theory is right or wrong, or talk about evolution vs creation. That another topic all together
I just want to know how most atheist would feel if all of sudden God was a real to them.

edit on 7-6-2012 by Tbrooks76 because: because

I think whoever it is and they relize that god is real.. then they would instantly become faithful and god, no dought about it.. i think gods love and power is just that strong and magnifisent that whoever it is that feels his grasp around them would never wanna let that go!
I fully believe in god and hope that others around the world can start to feel him and see the reality of life

It wouldn't change much to be honest. I have always believed that there is some sort of higher power. I mean seriously there has got to be something out there smarter and better than mere human! LOL Now this is not to say I'm Christian, I don't know that I am actually. I don't believe in most of what I have read in the bible, but I do believe in a God of some sort. It however would not change anything in my day to day life. I would keep raising my children, being a wife, living normal day to day stuff. I would continue to treat other people well, love others and be a respectful upstanding adult.

Honestly, I'd make a wretched christian wife. I'm far too outspoken and I'm the one who runs the show around this place! LOL I don't know how to take orders or follow rules written in some book written by men, and that I don't know if said book is true anyway.

Really not a damn thing would change.

reply to post by apushforenlightment

How do you awaken spiritually/find god/connect to the other side/increase your frequancy/become encased in light?

I dont know the answer, but again, its something i dont believe in. So in response to your question of "how do you....." Personally, i dont think you do, i think its a state of mind and big fallacy or a misinterpretation of a given situation/feeling/emotional reaction to some stimuli that can ONLY be attributed to the believer/person who experienced it. The problem is, everyone takes things differently, my brother believes in Raiki, and is a Raiki practitioner but i dont believe it since there is no REAL science to back its claims up, my fiance believes in Ghosts, and said she has a Ghostly experience only the other day, but there were 3 people in close rooms and just outside the door of the room that she heard 'a voice' in, no one else did, that doesnt mean that she actually did hear a ghost, more like, she interpreted a situation herself and came to her own conclusion....

The point being, its not a case of reading between the lines, its a case of reading what your a person/individual sees/experiences, and everyone has there own reasons for believing in a God or Gods, and as of yet, i have not needed a God to explain my life, or give me purpose, or to make me feel at ease with death, and i dont think i will need it. So, im not being shallow, close minded, narrow or anything else negative, im just waiting for some facts to which ive not seen yet, i based my statement on a broader view rather than Christian alone, hence the starred statement at the end of my post

If God was proven to be, then naturally I would believe in it.
I don't think I would necessarily have to change any aspect of my life though as I like to think that I'm already a good person.

Originally posted by EddyR3
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

How do you awaken spiritually/find god/connect to the other side/increase your frequancy/become encased in light?

The problem is, everyone takes things differently, my brother believes in Raiki, and is a Raiki practitioner but i dont believe it since there is no REAL science to back its claims up, my fiance believes in Ghosts, and said she has a Ghostly experience only the other day, but there were 3 people in close rooms and just outside the door of the room that she heard 'a voice' in, no one else did, that doesnt mean that she actually did hear a ghost, more like, she interpreted a situation herself and came to her own conclusion....

I like your thinking. But when it comes to your fiance. The things she heard was probably for her only and came thru the connection inside her. It is real but how she interperts the information in her is up to her. I have only once heard something from the otherside ones and I knew that sound was not from outside.my ears. That information was pushed straight into my brain thru the Pineal Gland if people are right and that is the place the transmitter is. en.wikipedia.org...

Shakespears Sister - Hello (Turn Your Radio On)


Tell your fiance if the other side is annoying her just tell her to ask what they want. It might be something that is lost and wants help. If it is still annoying tell it that you are gonna kick its ass when you get on the other side if it does not behave nicely. If you do not fear the unknown then it has no real power over you.

Raiki to me seem to be just a form of chakra balancing on other people. If it is then it can be used as a complement to normal doctors. Probably effective in depressions if you use massage and yoga at the same time to bring order to your mind and body. But with cancer and other physical problems I would go with normal medicine first so that they can monitor the body and remove the symptombs and the use Raiki to see if you can get the original problem under control. But you could probably listen to Chakra videos on youtube for free instead and get the same benifit if not more if it was yourself that was sick.

Above is just my 2 cents but I never have done Raiki myself so I cannot be sure that it really is a form of chakra balancing. Maybe it is more effective than I give it credit for. I again have to little knowlegde.

Originally posted by Minnie1985
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

another thing i will say is that before i was a believer i used to ask ''if god was real why would he let all these horrible things happen?'', it turns out i was asking the wrong question and should have been asking ''would god do these things?'' the answer to this is obviously no, so then who is responsible for all of the evil, well, in my opinion its obvious, satan!

sorry for the long winded post,

thank you

I normally avoid God conversations, most people get upset quick for some reason, but was in the mood the other day when I asked. Anyway I like your long winded post.

Funny huh, all you had to do was sincerely ask and somehow it was proven to you in some way. Despite popular belief faith isn’t always a blind faith, and I agree with making sure you’re asking the right questions.

If God was proven then, "Stephen Hawkings" would pray to be on his feet again. If God was proven then people

would miss alot of football games on sundays. If God was proven, "Ernest Angley" would take a much needed

Holiday and chill.

Originally posted by Tbrooks76

Originally posted by Minnie1985
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

another thing i will say is that before i was a believer i used to ask ''if god was real why would he let all these horrible things happen?'', it turns out i was asking the wrong question and should have been asking ''would god do these things?'' the answer to this is obviously no, so then who is responsible for all of the evil, well, in my opinion its obvious, satan!

sorry for the long winded post,

thank you

I normally avoid God conversations, most people get upset quick for some reason, but was in the mood the other day when I asked. Anyway I like your long winded post.

Funny huh, all you had to do was sincerely ask and somehow it was proven to you in some way. Despite popular belief faith isn’t always a blind faith, and I agree with making sure you’re asking the right questions.

thanks for your reply, people do get pretty upset sometimes when God is mentioned, (my dad doesn't want to hear anything about God at all, its almost as though i'm spouting evil) but because of the level of manipulation through out religion its become such a complicated subject that its now easier not to believe. The sad thing is that it was never meant to be so difficult, all God wants for of us for is for us to love each other, treat each other with the respect we all deserve and to appreciate the beautiful things we all had. these are things that should come naturally to us all but sadly tptb managed to make us think this wasn't enough and that we deserved more, even though we already had everything we could ever need, its nice to meet like minded people and this is why i like this site so much, there is so much diversity that there is a place for everyone.

and yes, i couldn't quite believe it myself when i actually realised that God existed, simply by asking, thats all anyone has to do, once again God made this easy so that everyone has a chance to see the truth,

take care