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The troops: I've had enough

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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I'm going to admit it. I'm really becoming deeply tired of the proverbial brainwashed conservative grunt stereotype, here on ATS. I'm truly sick of the military, at this point. I'm sick of your aggression, your canine lack of intelligence, your insistence that the rest of society worship you when most civilians actually want to do the opposite, and more than anything else, the belief that we ought to thank you for committing unprovoked attrocities in Afghanistan and Iraq.

As a man, I'm also becoming extremely tired of you giving my gender a bad name. We're not all psychopaths who live for nothing other than killing people; and the worst part of it is, that society now worships the military to such a degree, that you're considered deficient as a male if you don't want to do that. My own male role models are people like Bucky Fuller, or Jacques Fresco, to be honest; they're who I consider to be the proverbial "real men." Not you.

I'm not grateful to you at all. What am I supposed to be grateful for, exactly? The fact that you went over to Iraq, a country which despite the number of lies that the two Bush governments tried to feed us, never did anything to the rest of the world, and turned the entire place into a smoking blast crater, so that Halliburton could then go there, and make hundreds of billions of dollars, cleaning it up?

Despite the above, however, I can't even get angry with you any more. I've done that, over and over and over again. It makes no difference. You are unrepentant. I am spent, now. I'm just tired, more than anything else.

Please just go away. Stop insisting, more than anything else, that we should feel reverence and gratitude towards you. I don't want to do that. I truthfully don't want to like you at all, and I'm not going to. I don't owe you anything. You don't protect my freedom. You take orders from psychopaths who want you to kill people so that they can make money out of it; they are people who literally feed from death, and you are helping them.

If anything, by continuing to be willing to fight wars, you're reducing my freedom. You're contributing to a world in which everyone feels afraid of everyone else, and where governments can keep passing more and more restrictive, fascist laws in order to take advantage of that. I don't want to live in the world that you are helping to create, and I am certainly not going to thank you for it.




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


I agree with you completely. I will tell you it is getting extremely old being referred to and called 'F-ing Civis' or 'dumb civilians' and being spoken to and treated as such by armed forces of all sorts. Being a civilian does not make me any less important than anyone, and I'm sick of that mentality. I enjoyed your very true rant. Rant on!



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


P.s. with all the despicable things our troops have been doing for years.. Pissing on dead bodies, blowing up dogs with dynamite, treating the countries their in like the run the show, disrespecting everyone not in u.s camo, tieing up females from the armed forces and disrespecting them on camera, it's sickening and I will never support them again as I did blindly before. Our troops mentalities are #, seriously.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


I am a Marine and I actually agree with a lot of what you say. I am no longer on active duty and I don't know what I would do if I was. Just remember that not all service members are bad. Sure there are plenty of brainwashed phsycopaths wearing uniforms, but that does not make us all bad. I also don't see any other service members demanding respect or admiration from anyone on this site. Maybe you read too many memorial day threads this past week, I don't know. I surely hope things change for the better soon and the troops will either be brought home or sent to fight where the cause is just and benificial for all of mankind.

The troops are tired as well. Many of them have had enough. I do think that we will start to see changes within the military because of this. Soon recruitment will drop off, and career military personell will walk away early when their contracts are up.

I fully understand why you have the views that you do and I fully respect them. All I am asking is for you to judge us as individuals, and not as a group. ( at least here on ATS )
edit on 7/6/12 by usmc0311 because: poor spelling



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by petrus4
 

The troops are tired as well. Many of them have had enough. I do think that we will start to see changes within the military because of this. Soon recruitment will drop off, and career military personell will walk away early when their contracts are up.

I fully understand why you have the views that you do and I fully respect them. All I am asking is for you to judge us as individuals, and not as a group. ( at least here on ATS )
edit on 7/6/12 by usmc0311 because: poor spelling


I should have tried to avoid generalising, a little more than I did; there was probably more emotion in the OP than logic. I am aware that there are soldiers out there who do feel this way.

I hope that the changes occurring that you speak of in the military, do start to come to pass. I feel that soldiers need to begin to stand up to the civilian government, and realise that it is the government who are answerable to them, and not the other way around.

Some police also need to start to realise their worth, and to understand that they are literally the arms of government. Governments have no power over the people whatsoever without them. I think more of the police should become aware of this, and demand change from their governments, rather than being afraid of the government themselves, and allowing said fear to then trickle down to civilians as well.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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I agree with some of the points. However, why are you directing your anger to those who are only doing what they are told, versus directing your anger to those who are responsible for them (troops) being there in the first place?

I feel your frustration, but being a vet, I have to tell ya, it isn't as easy as saying to your CO, "I refuse this order because it is unconstitutional......

I don't see Americans that are against the illegal conflicts showing up en mass and supporting the troops who did have the courage to refuse orders! Have you ever heard of Lt Colonel Terry Lakin?? Look it up and see what he has gone thru refusing to follow unconstitutional orders! It is very easy to criticize, but unless you stand up for those who DO STAND UP against following unconstitutional orders, what exactly do you expect?

Did you support Lt Col Laken?
Did you support Private Manning?

Bashing any individual or group is very easy. But what have you done to make it right? Ever hear the saying, "Don't kill the messenger"?

I don't disagree with your anger at how our military is being used by the globalists to accomplish their new world order but I do believe your attacks are unwarranted simpley because you are not attacking the right group of people.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, if our troops new they had some support back home if and when they decided to disobey their unlawful orders, it might be a very enlightening experience for not only Americans, but the people thru out the world............



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


The military is run by a civilian president that civilians vote for. So whatever mission we are sent to do, its because you voted for it.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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Hearing suicides are up, so there may be some hope yet, as I blame parents for not teaching kid about integrity and ethics mainly, however when you got parents teaching a belief in a man as god, Jesus...then santa clause and easter bunny, starts making way to much sense..

Stop killing or kill yourself, is best advice, can offer to those who enlist



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4
... your canine lack of intelligence, ...


Hey, now, no need to go insulting dogs here.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by seeker1963
Did you support Private Manning?


Yes, absolutely I do. 100%.

The problem with people like Private Manning, however, is that you're correct that not enough civilians do support him. There are far too many collaborators and government apologists within the civilian population as well. It's often people who'd prefer not to "rock the boat," rather than stand up in order to solve a problem that needs solving.
edit on 7-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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This is a very interesting thread and so far I agree with both sides save the posters that, really, did not add to the discussion. As I agree with the statements thus far, I really have little to say and I apologize for interrupting, however sense a few names of soldiers that are standing up have been brought in, I would like to add another. My purpose in this is for the readers who do not know of the Men standing up can look them up and follow what they have done and what they are doing now. The name I would like to add is Adam Kokesh


edit on 7-6-2012 by Agarta because: tried to clean up the link

edit on 8/6/12 by JAK because: Link Format



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by Katharos62191
reply to post by petrus4
 


P.s. with all the despicable things our troops have been doing for years.. Pissing on dead bodies, blowing up dogs with dynamite, treating the countries their in like the run the show, disrespecting everyone not in u.s camo, tieing up females from the armed forces and disrespecting them on camera, it's sickening and I will never support them again as I did blindly before. Our troops mentalities are #, seriously.


Please don't confuse what the military trains them to do and be, with a lack of their own personal humanity.
The human race is no longer really cut-out to face the horrors of war. It's too hard on them; too difficult, too damaging -- physically, emotionally and mentally. This is the reason they are all so screwed up when they get home.

They are put through rigorous exercises to adapt to war. They are ingrained with the idea that the "enemy" is less than human. They are all but brainwashed into believing that they are killing...well....like the "Blue Monkeys", in Avatar. They have to believe it, to be able to stomach doing it.

So don't disdain the individuals. Show disdain for the government that pushes them to do it.

ETA: Peeing on dead bodies? What's shocking is that it's not far, far worse than that. WAR makes people crazy. Those behaviors are a way to survive. A way to rationalize...and live with the travesties they face on a daily basis.
edit on 6/7/2012 by BellaSabre because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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As a veteran myself I would like to add to the topic. First thing, check out my thread from last night, It'll explain a lot of my feelings.Rolling Stone publishes emails from ‘America's last prisoner of war' All I ask is that you don't generalize every soldier in a negative sentiment. What you feel does have some credence, I've experienced it first hand. With that being said, I've met some truly amazing people in the military. Really bright intelligent people, who have the best of hearts. It's too bad that there is a good amount of crap that comes out of that culture in general. Remember that those you alienate are the ones that may be fighting for your true freedom if things do indeed get really bad. There are those in the service and out that won't tolerate things if they get to a certain level. It actually puts TPTB in quite a conundrum if you think about it. If you read my thread you'll see a lot of discontent that you just don't hear about. You're not supposed to hear about it. Government is all about public perception.....Period. That's all they care about as far a citizens go. If a soldier calls them out, they'll bury it as quickly as possible. I've seen it. Now why do you think they feel ex soldiers are the biggest extremist threat? They know there is discontent. They know these men have the training, hell they trained them. This is why America is the biggest hurdle to their goals. They've created a monster that they won't be able to defeat in the long run. All these produced soldiers from over a decade of war. There is still a line TPTB can't cross, and they know it. PS: There was an article about extremists where they mentioned ex soldiers from a couple of months ago. I'll post if I can find. EDIT: This one is from 2009. Homeland security chief apologizes to veterans groups. There was another article during the FBI report on sovereign extremists around the DEC time frame.
edit on 8-6-2012 by GD21D because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
-John Stuart Mill

However,

"If a law is unjust a man is not only right to disobey it he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
- HL Mencken

Don't take it out on the troops, they have no choice. Except prison. I can agree that, since the world hates us, we should give it to them, as my dad used to say. In other words, bring the troops home, stop mucking in others business, IF someone becomes a REAL threat, drone strike their ass to the stone age. After proper warning. And while we're at it, no more aid. No more help to the IMF. No U.N. No wheat. No fuel. Nothing. Everybody hates us, so f em.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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I agree with you 100%. Illegal wars & occupations do not warrant , you ,me, or anybody else to have to say "Thank- You" for your VOLUNTEER SERVICE in the military. And what's worse is were breeding a whole new generation of kids who watch daddy or mommy get killed or be mamed for life.

When their time comes, they'll join without question, without hesitation.. I if have to look at one more "Surprise" home coming I'll puke. Fighting for a just cause, would warrant a thank-you. I'll give my thanks to the founding fathers of this nation & the native American tribes, those two fought for a just cause. IMHO.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by theconspirator
reply to post by petrus4
 


The military is run by a civilian president that civilians vote for. So whatever mission we are sent to do, its because you voted for it.


agreed,
but not all of use voted for it/him, and since JFK, all the presidents were 'put' in .. just say'n



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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we hear a lot about the troops and how we should appreciate them, and I do.

I just wish we praised the "little" people as much as we praise the troops. there are people in our everyday lives we don't think twice about-the gal at the drive-thru, the guy behind the counter at the gas station, the girl who checks us out at the grocery store.

appreciate the troops who protect us, but don't forget about the hard working americans who serve us in other ways.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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There are far too many collaborators and government apologists within the civilian population as well. It's often people who'd prefer not to "rock the boat," rather than stand up in order to solve a problem that needs solving


So im guessing you are not worried about rocking the boat or standing up against the majority. if so why would you say this on a site that reasonable intelligent people dont take seriously and most of the population has never heard of. Btw we dont ask for your gratitude all we care about is following orders, getting paid, and getting back to our loved ones.

You ask what you should be grateful for. you should be grateful for being able to live in a country where you have the freedom to say the idiotic things that you do. you shouldnt bash the troops about the war, we just follow orders. if you want to blame someone then blame the politicians that was voted into office by you.
edit on 10-6-2012 by ussoldier because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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I do not believe in wars fought for the benefit of oil corps, and profit, I will not support them or the troops that willingly yet blindly patricipate.

The war the needs to be fought is within our own borders, against these corrupt people in power. They are a bigger threat to our freedoms then Iraq, Iran, and Afganistan ever was and ever will be.

These corperate bullies have INFECTED the govt and you are fighting in another country for their intrests, not our freedom anymore.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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If anything, by continuing to be willing to fight wars, you're reducing my freedom. You're contributing to a world in which everyone feels afraid of everyone else, and where governments can keep passing more and more restrictive, fascist laws in order to take advantage of that. I don't want to live in the world that you are helping to create, and I am certainly not going to thank you for it.


You seem to forget it is not all the fault of the troops that you hate. Do you pay taxes? What about the people still working to build military vehicles, weapons, and ammunition? Where is your hate towards them? So many people are against the wars right now(including me) BUT no one is doing anything about it. People got tired of Vietnam and quit supporting the system that was continuing the war, now nobody cares.

Also...I'm wondering how long it will take you to ask 'WHERE ARE THE TROOPS!" and call them cowards if they didn't act to defend you and the rest of our country if/when we are actually invaded. Hate us all you want now, a military is necessary sadly.

As for gratitude and thanking us, I don't care if you do or not. When I returned from Afghanistan I got alot of thank yous and such, and honestly I don't know how to reply to it. So you can stop saying we all expect you to worship us because you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
edit on 10-6-2012 by SGTSECRET because: added content







 
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