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Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by nenothtu
He may have confronted them but that definition of confront does not mean to start a physical fight. Addressing a problem you have with someone should not be viewed as physical confrontation.
I pray you never become a leo.
You would probably think it is okay to physically harm someone who has a dispute with you.
Abduction and being chased onto the property of another is most certainly irrelevant to this issue,
and the fact that he carried a firearm onto Danaher's property is irrelevant to the stand your ground law, because he did not shoot Danaher on Danaher's property.
If a prosecutor tries to say its relevant on the grounds of it being premeditated murder, then the defense attorney can object with the fact that Rodriguez always carried a firearm with him – which would effectively explain the gun at the time of the confrontation.
He did not have his gun drawn when he told them to turn down their music in the video that I saw. And again, confront does not mean start a physical fight.
You are trying to distort what happen in order to make your view seem correct. Instead you should correctly view what happen so you can have a correct view.
A neighbor asking another neighbor to turn down their music's volume is not a physical confrontation and should not become one regardless of how drunk anyone is.
All we can tell from the video is that he drew his gun when they were aggressively pursuing him.
At no other time are we lead to believe that he had a gun in hand except for when he said “back up”, and when he fired upon them.
As I see it, you obviously do not understand the situation – that is why I am debating you. Now that you understand that - did you honestly think that I would grant your judgments more faith of being accurate just because you said you are certified to be leo? Really?
Someone who is found to be guilty of damaging someone's property can be defined as trespassing on the sole grounds of damage to another person's property. That is where the twig comes in to play. If you are not made aware that you trespassing either verbally, or by way of a sign, then you can still be ruled as trespassing if you damage someone's property.
You are making false accusations just as the other guy did. You are leading and badgering. The man is said to have carried a firearm with him a lot. Therefore, he most likely carried it for self defense and not to confront someone with a gun.
If you look at all the evidence on the internet you will see your arguments are very weak. Also, it does not matter how it is ruled in court. That has no barring on this debate since we aren't in court and there have been plenty of unjust rulings – especially so when leo is involved with the prosecutors side of the case.
Originally posted by roadgravel
I would hate to be in the position of shooting an unarmed person who had not actually touched me. But I can see that if a person has a gun and a hostile group is approaching, there is the chance of them using my gun against me.
What a choice to have to make.
Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Except sometimes the police won't do anything or won't respond for several hours.
What then?
Originally posted by nunya13
It used to be that killing an unarmed man was considered cowardly. Now we find every excuse in the book to justify it. Sad...
This is why I believe Stand Your Ground Laws are harmful...it encourages a person to continue to be part of a situation they EASILY have an escape from.
Self defense is defending yourself from a clear and immediate danger from which you have no alternative other than to harm your offender. This man clearly had alternatives. He chose to be part of the escalation he clearly saw coming (he even says so in the video, "they are trying to escalating" and "I will not leave". He shouldn't have stood his ground, he should have left. Prinicple has nothing to do with it when you are talking about a person's life. I don't see how it can be self defense if you CHOSE to stay in a situation that is clearly getting out of hand. Your NOT defending yourself if you are opting in to the confrontation. This is a clear problem with stand your ground laws, imo.
Originally posted by nenothtu
"Stand your ground" sounds great to a cowboy - unless he bothers to dig into it and find out just which ground he is allowed to stand. SYG laws have been passed to obviate you of the duty to flee from your own house in the case of a home invasion or the like, and some have been extended to include your car (against carjackings) and your workplace. They do NOT allow you to John Wayne it by going to the OTHER guy's house, or even a public area, and inciting trouble. At the other guy's house, HE has the SYG rights, not YOU. In public areas, the same self defense laws as were in effect before SYG apply - i.e. a duty to retreat.
In this specific case, by saying "I am now going to Stand My Ground", he protected exactly nothing, because that ground was not his to stand under the law, and he declared his intent to ignore his duty to retreat.
Originally posted by Skewed
reply to post by Hessling
I think this is where I think our system fails. What needs to happen is some serious education. I am all for stand your ground, I think overall the idea is a positive one with great benefit to the populace. But we must take into account the hot heads out there. When laws such as these are in effect, the people must be educated about it and what it really means.
Proper education fixes the majority of problems, not money or more laws.
Originally posted by Skewed
reply to post by mytheroy
Was it determined that the lady did indeed have a weapon? If not, I do not see how the man could be threatened by an unarmed lady. Surely, being a decent sized guy, that if the unarmed woman approached him aggressively he could have simply just bitch slapped her to stop her at the least, no need to end her life.
But to me, in this case he went looking for trouble and should have consequences.
Originally posted by Skewed
reply to post by mytheroy
Was it determined that the lady did indeed have a weapon? If not, I do not see how the man could be threatened by an unarmed lady. Surely, being a decent sized guy, that if the unarmed woman approached him aggressively he could have simply just bitch slapped her to stop her at the least, no need to end her life.
But to me, in this case he went looking for trouble and should have consequences.
Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by wewillnotcomply666
dont worry man, no one watched the video they are rushing to judgement based on the previous posts by others that did not watch the video, they still think a retired firefighter shot a woman teacher on her own property, which is 100% false. he s hot a drunken large man in the street after said drunken man charged him after being warned not to .