Capitalism Is For Dummies.

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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by BurntGermanTongue
 


wow... Did you know that for example the Aztecs had an economy in which powdered gold was tender coin?...

Did you know that the mayority of the Native America Tribes had similar economic systems? One which many tribes used was sea shells they used as tender coin known as Wampum.... This was happening BEFORE white Europeans set foot on the New World... The Wampun was used as far back as 4,500 years ago, if not longer...

I know leftwingers LOVE to claim Native Americans "were socialists", but this is not true. Native Americans people did have private property, and if you tried to take anything from them you would have to fight them. They only TRADED their private property, and on ocasion gave something as reward for something brave someone did.

They did work and live in a community, but that doesn't make them socialists...



edit on 8-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
wow... Did you know that for example the Aztecs had an economy in which powdered gold was tender coin?...


The Aztecs were prominent in Mexico during the 14th century and beyond. This is not an example of "ancient civilization." You also assume that the existence of money is proof of economic liberalization. It's not. It just represents a form of resource that can be exchanged for other things universally (more or less). Money can still be applied to socialism


Did you know that the mayority of the Native America Tribes had similar economic systems in which they used sea shells as tender coin known as Wampum?.... and this was happening BEFORE white Europeans set foot on the New World... The Wampun was used as far back as 4,500 years ago, if not longer...


I did know this, yes, but money was not exactly used in the same way back then as it is now, as I've said. I would like to link to an article which sheds light on the question of past societies. The author does cite his sources, however, I shall use those sources directly in a later post, when I have the time. monthlyreview.org...



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by BurntGermanTongue

The Aztecs were prominent in Mexico during the 14th century and beyond. This is not an example of "ancient civilization." You also assume that the existence of money is proof of economic liberalization. It's not. It just represents a form of resource that can be exchanged for other things universally (more or less). Money can still be applied to socialism


In socialism private property does not exist, yet most ancient tribes, including the Native Americans owned private property... Yes ancient man lived, and thrived thanks to CAPITALISM and a TRUE FREE MARKET SYSTEM, not because of socialism...
edit on 8-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
In socialism private property does not exist, yet most ancient tribes, including the Native Americans owned private property... Yes ancient man lived, and thrived thanks to CAPITALISM and a TRUE FREE MARKET SYSTEM, not because of socialism...


Private property is not just "owning something," it is the concept in which possessions under your purview are inalienable and eternally exploitable. The natives from days of past have not used the money in which capitalism uses it, they used it as things that were evenly distributed and could be exchanged for whatever they needed. When new things were introduced to tribes, they could not simply distribute everything they owned evenly, what if person X didn't need object Y, and Person Z needed it more? The currency could be used for a person's needs. HOWEVER, it was not attained by merits or by achievements, it was just like the old system of even distribution, but with the ability to "purchase" different objects for a need basis. It was still "socialist"



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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While the OPs post are very idealistic, they aren't entirely realistic.
America's foundation is based upon freedom, the freedom to do things which benefit society and the freedom to do things which benefit yourself. Though it is up to each individual to make that choice.

The problem is not Capitalism, the problem is that there are essentially monopoly's, or near monopoly's, of pairs and trio's of companys which dominate entire niches of the market, see: Energy, Banking, Automotive, Food, Internet, Cellphones, etc etc etc. When you think of each one, probably 2 - 3 company names come to mind.

These corporations have gained so much power than the "free market" no longer really exists, there is no real possibility for competition. The solution to a broken Capitalist society is not to do away with capitalism all together...

I do believe however that if Energy were FREE, as described by the OPs method, then our Capitalist society (once monopolies are dealt with) would increase in Conductivity/Productivity, since Energy is what is required.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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sorry, double posted.
edit on 8-6-2012 by d3ink because: Double posted by accident.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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our system isn't capitalistic!!
so, it might be better not to judge capitalism based on the american system??
it's not capitalism, it's not socialism, it's heading towards fascism!!

and forcing people to buy solar panels, either outright, or through any gov't scheme would be considered facism in my book. just like obamacare is! ya it has a socialist slant to it, but in the end, the only one that is being really helped in it is the healthcare businesses who are free to hike their rates however high they want, since well, we are forced by the gov't to participate weather we want to or not, or can afford to or not! then to top it off, and well, make themselves look a little friendlier to the people, they will offer "help" to those who "can't afford it", but those people, along with everyone else will still be paying for it, thru taxation...they really aren't helping anyone, except of course the industry that we are all being forced to take part in!! if they really wanted to help the people, they would give the industry a deadline and tell the healthcare industry that the "help" will end for everyone except the seniors and disabled one that day, so they better recheck their bookkeeping and see what they can cut out of it and reduce the charges or they will lose their customer base! that would be capitalism!! or just take over the danged industry, put the insurance agencies out of business and run the healthcare as a gov't run non-profit! but neither of those options is palatable to the big businesses, so we have this mongrel of an economy, with the people fight to protect the "capitalism" while the gov't taxes the heck out of us and subsidizes the industry so they can have a better bottom line and bigger bonuses for their top administrators!!

I have nothing against the "successfull" of the world like ceos earning huge amounts of money, but when the business they are running is so out of line that they are depending on the gov't to take money from me through taxes to give to them either directly, or through insane gov't contracts where the taxpayers are paying an insane amount for something I can pick up at the home depot for a few buck, or by giving money to the "poor" so they can have a customer base...
ya, I think I have a right to gripe! I ain't killing myself 8 or more hours a day, five to six hours a week because some fool thinks he's so valuable that he deserves the world handed to him on a silver platter. and it would be nice, quite frankly, if when I do come close to killing myself at that job the danged fool would see fit to treat me without expecting me to be as rich as him and have thousands of dollars just sitting around gathering dust!

socialism would be better, capitalism would be better....
take you pick, but what we have now is insane and only designed to keep the "too big to fails" growing bigger and bigger at our expense!



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:30 AM
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People are saying that we don't have capitalism now, and that we have something else being called capitalism. People are also saying that socialism inevitably becomes something else as well. So, let's realize that it can happen with either system.

Personally, I'm not advocating the end of the free market or possessions. My vision of socialism only deals with the necessities. Please, don't say, "define necessities". You know what they are.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 


so, the government is going to go into the agriculture business, the energy business, they are gonna buy up all these apartment complexes and run them??



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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Excellent thread. Starred & flagged.

I don't really have anything to say that hasn't already been said. I have been thinking about this for a few years though. Capitalism basically equates to survival of the fittest, but that doesn't mean it's right. Isn't it about time for humanity to grow out of that phase?

tldr; I genuinely believe that greed is a trait exclusive to those who are unevolved and stuck in a primitive mindset.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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What needs to happen is not a total # to socialism, but a combination of both. It is my understanding of socialism that there is no moving up a corporate ladder. If you start a janitor you end as a janitor. If you want to go to school for teaching but it's decided that civil engineers are needed then that's what your doing. I think the government does need to step in and make some changes that are socialist but you can't get rid of socialism all together because then you will remove people's desire. If your not happy at your job how good are you going to be at it. If the government stepped in and took care of the utilities and healthcare and possibly food yes we would pay higher taxes but people as whole would be better and you would still have the choice on what type of job you want. You would not have the government telling you where to live and there would be a better quality of life. Also if the government stepped in and sold there own products not at cost but at a level that would force companies to stop raping the public things would really change.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Germanicus

Solar power seems like its anywhere from $15000 to $30000 to convert your home. If the government was doing these things for cost im sure we could get the cost down under $10000 easily. Now if every Home Owner is a customer you can get the cost down again through sheer volume.Now the cost to covert is under $5000. The American Government gives 'no interest' $5000 loans to every Home Owner to convert to solar. The loans are paid back through money saved on electricity over a 3 year period. That way, the cost to taxpayer is nil. The Home Owner pays about $100 dollars a month for energy for three years then is off the grid. Win win for everyone that isnt an energy company or a government wanting tax revenue.



You keep saying "Government" over and over.

Little FYI for you. The government produces nothing it consumes, it matters not what type of government it is.

People are naive enough to think the one particular government is better than the other, but the real truth is they are all the same, it's the greed, arrogance and corruption that infiltrate all governments, only to end up at the same cross-road.

The answer will be when people stop playing the victim role and empower themselves, then they will not need a representative, or government at all, but the current MO is everyone wants and thinks someone else should take care of them.

We live in a material world, so work has to get done, now who is going to do it?


edit on 8-6-2012 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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Its funny that people think that communism is better than our current system. I ask everyone who thinks as much are you willing to do what you are assigned to do in order to benefit society in this utopia? If your answer is yes, I ask what if they make you a septic repair technician? A necessary position that is a wholly unpleasant and required in a functional society of any kind. You do realize for your socialist dream to have any hope of success EVERY member of the community has to serve a purpose within it right?

Oh thats right, you'd get a good job, nothing like cleaning feces...



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 08:00 AM
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Whenever I hear someone decry capitalism and preach out against its evils, I wonder what that person would do if they won the lottery.
I have a hunch their newly acquired millions would probably not be used to build schools, hospitals and homeless shelters..



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


capitalism like socialism is only as a good as the people in power. capitalism has the ability to benefit the people but in our country it just decided to benefit the bottom line of the individual.


What we have right now in the USA is a monopoly capitalistic system.

What i think everyone fails to understand regardless of what system you support and how you view it .. it all comes down to who is in power of this system.

PUt greedy power hungry people in any system and you will have abuse of the people regardless of system. We can sit here all day and debate which screws us worse whether the one with lube or without lube but in the end we still get screwed ..

The bottom line is that most people just want to have a life where they can have a family, pursue their interests and just live life like you want. Then there are those people who want money power and to make society how they wish and these are the ones that always end up running your country.

The same old story repeats itself in history over and over again. Capitalism is no different it is just a different twist and little by little greed is making it more and more oppressive. We will end up where the rich can afford everything and the common man will have nothing other than enough to keep him/her going back to work for their corporate master... and lets be honest we already live this way... which is fine because we have a good quality of life.. but little by little that is being eroded away.

edit on 8-6-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-6-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Didnt Karl Marx theorise that capitalism would eventually come to an end because the system cannot be sustained?

Other then that, i completely agree with the OP's idea's, Capitalism is for selfish people - People that need to take a trip to the poorest parts of the world and not just the fancy hotels they situate there.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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I'm kind of torn on the subject, having lived in both socialist (Germany) and capitalist (US) societies. Both have their up- and downsides.

Socialist upside:

- In Germany, everyone has health insurance, and no one has to be afraid to die in the gutter if they can't spring for emergency care, or that -- even if they do have money -- daft insurance regulations and excessive medical bills will take them for every penny they have.

- Medical care and drugs are a LOT cheaper. I once did a comparison just for #s and giggles. A US coworker of mine once broke his arm in a mountain-bike accident, and his surgery and 3-day hospital care cost something like $80,000. A similar treatment in Germany would be about $15,000, with a 10-day hospital stay and the chief of surgery doing the operation himself. (I don't have the actual numbers anymore, but it was something along those lines.)

- People in socialist countries (and I'm talking Western/Northern Europe/Canada here, not COMMUNIST countries like Cuba, Russia or China) get a lot more vacation time, higher wages, and have enough leisure time to pursue their extracurricular interests and hobbies.

- Despite what hardcore capitalists say, many socialist countries are NOT on the verge of total bankruptcy. While the US is truly bankrupt and won't be able to crawl out from under its national debt, like, ever... countries like Canada, Norway and Germany have much more balanced budgets and are financially are lot better managed. Norway, for example, actually has a balance surplus, something Americans haven't seen in ages.

Socialist downside:

- The "system" is much more regulated, taxes are usually much higher. Everyone is insured to the hilt against just about everything that could possibly happen to a person. Also, with all this regulation and workers' laws, it is incredibly difficult to change occupations -- even for jobs like retail or working in a bakery, you need several years of on-the-job training as an apprentice before making any money. So it's almost impossible to just drop your office job and decide to open up a cupcake bakery... it's a rigid system and can feel rather suffocating to people who don't want to be stuck in one job for the rest of their lives.

- Socialism stifles initiative and creativity. Americans are much more entrepreneurial (or at least used to be; I now see a lot of the unemployed just sitting there, waiting that exactly the same position they got laid off from shows up and falls into their lap, instead of getting creative and thinking outside of the box). Even though times have gotten tougher here in the US, it's still possible to just open up your own business with nothing but an idea and ambition... or to work as a painter today, as a retail clerk tomorrow and a receptionist the next day. You can't do that in a socialist country. I was always joking with my friends that you need a diploma to clean toilets in Germany, and it's not far from the truth.

So there's good and bad, but personally, I don't think either system is optimal. My private Utopia is a country with no centralized government, where leadership is on the state or even lower, county or municipal level... and that's it. Below that could be small communities of 100-200 people living, working and sharing the fruit of their labor. Child rearing and education would be a communal effort, as well as caring for the disabled, injured and elderly. Lazy bums, though, would not be tolerated -- no one would get to be a welfare queen or king at the expense of all others. If you did something seriously wrong (e.g., child molesters, violent crime, etc.), you'd be exiled from your community and would have to go fend for yourself. You would actually know your leaders in person and would be able to chase them out instantly if they turned out to be scoundrels and money-grubbers.

For that to work, though, we'd have to go back to the old values -- where your word and handshake still actually meant something... where people weren't thinking "me, me, me," but how plans and decisions were impacting the whole community... and where it was clear that either everyone would live together or everyone would die together.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
Capitalism is far from fair. It is demonic.

What a load of fearmongering crap.

Capitalism is not evil, it is simply broken. The playing field needs to be leveled by ensuring corporations have no more political power than you or I. There are two very simple steps that can be taken to ensure this:
1. end corporate political donations

2. ban corporate lobby groups


These two simple solutions would make a world of difference. Communism/socialism is NOT the answer, and i dont want it. I worked hard to get to where i am in this life and dont see why i should help those who refuse to help themselves.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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OP you are spot on with most of your psot. I suggest you have a look at The Venus Project (beverminding the Zeitgeist crap). It says it all better than I can.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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What sort of research do you have to back up your claims on costs, other than just pulling numbers out of thin air?

Sources, please !





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