Capitalism Is For Dummies.

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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What a nice little circle jerk you socialists have goin on here. OP, you have clearly never run a business. Never. You pull wild numbers out of your ass and expect some stupid plan of yours to work just because you think it will. Try that nonsense with a bank when you're applying for a business loan.

Socialism has never been more than some idealistic fantasy that when put into practice, destroys absolutely everything in its path. Oh, but YOUR idea of socialism is different, right? Wrong.

Let me tell you boys something - there are a lot of us ready to restore this country if peaceful means fail, so get ready to get out of the way and keep your thoughts to yourself.




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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The post shows very limited understanding of a free market economic system. The first and primary rule in a free market system is "first create value".

No one or no entity can profit without first creating value for others, it is in this creation of value that innovation occurs and living standards improve. Inequities occur when price and value become disconnected, and in my experience this usually occurs in situations that the government has injected itself through subsidies or allocation of public funds (i.e. education, healthcare, labor unions).

Capitalism as you referred to does not aim to oppress, in the contrary it aims to elevate in order for personal and collective gain.

If you say that socialism is founded in the purpose of the public good, the important question becomes whose version of the public good is to be implemented. At least in a free market system the course of development is determined by those with the largest stake or biggest interest. This keeps everyone at least relatively honest, which is something universally missing in more collective systems.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 



I was just thinking earlier how it seems to be hardwired. If you do manage to escape this condition, you'll fall into one of two groups: the ruling class or the outsiders. Even the outsiders like to get in on the action. Care to make a wager?


I am not a betting or gambling man. But really you don't want to make wagers with me bro. And to answer your question No I do not fall into those two groups. I think people just like to put themselves into pro or con groups, and make wagers for or against, you know its like there hardwired to do that.
edit on 7-6-2012 by galadofwarthethird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


So, the government gets involved in capitalism, it is no longer capitalism. But, what if it did? And, what if the public got their wish and made trinkets without any regulations. They could do what they wanted to who they wanted within the law. What if the government drew in the most buyers and workers? Would the capitalists be satisfied that the government "won" fair and square?



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 


The government cannot "get involved in capitalism" and capitalism has never had a shot in this country, but then again, I'm a purist and I say that because from the start the federal government tied the price of gold to silver and in doing so regulated the market. For this reason, this country has never known capitalism.

"Buyers and workers" is not capitalist terminology. Capitalist terminology would be "buyers and sellers". In a free and open market place the language of that should define that market, meaning it is free and open, not regulated in any way other than what regulation comes from "buyers" who buy from the "seller" who gives the best quality product or service at the best possible price.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by gentledissident
 



I was just thinking earlier how it seems to be hardwired. If you do manage to escape this condition, you'll fall into one of two groups: the ruling class or the outsiders. Even the outsiders like to get in on the action. Care to make a wager?


I am not a betting or gambling man. But really you don't want to make wagers with me bro. And to answer your question No I do not fall into those two groups. I think people just like to put themselves into pro or con groups, and make wagers for or against, you know its like there hardwired to do that.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet anyone who calls me "bro".

So, you think we're hardwired to to scam? Babies are pretty good at it, so I'll have to agree.

How can you not be an outsider, at least, if you've escaped being deluded? If you are not part of the ruling class, like a business owner, who do you identify with locally?



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

I understand that we see things differently. But, if my scenario occurred, and the government provided the best product and the best working conditions thus dominating the market, would you consider it a fair victory?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by gentledissident
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

I understand that we see things differently. But, if my scenario occurred, and the government provided the best product and the best working conditions thus dominating the market, would you consider it a fair victory?


If my aunt had balls would you call her my uncle? If bushes were trees would trees then be falling? What if there were no hypotheticals?

Why is it you believe any government can effectively do what you just described? Do you honestly believe the United States government who has brought us into a world we are now at a $15 Trillion plus national debt could even come close to doing what you just described?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
If my aunt had balls would you call her my uncle? If bushes were trees would trees then be falling? What if there were no hypotheticals?

I get it. you refuse to answer my question. I'll move on.
edit on 8-6-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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No government is Capitalist, all governments are socialist. It would be a problem for the citizens if government was trying to make a buck of the citizens. As in taxes, fines, fees, tickets, confiscations, surcharges, garnishments, and excessive spending in general and pork barrel projects.

Austerity? To government that's like living within your means. Ridiculous. We have printing presses.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 





I get it. you refuse to answer my question. I'll move on.


I answered your question before you even asked it. I do not argue in defense of free markets because I actually think there is a better way, so if you are going to keep insisting that I allow, even if for the sake of argument that I do allow for a better way I don't believe exists, perhaps it is best you move on...or, you could actually make a valid argument as to why you believe government can actually do all you have hypothetically postulated it could do.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

I see, you won't discuss a "win" because you believe that's impossible. I consider that a cop out, but we see things differently. As far as me plotting out how it would be possible, I may have posted it on this site shortly after I joined. You can look for it if you're interested. I'm not interested in laying it all out now, but it really has nothing to do with the question I asked.

I should sleep. I have to get up early in the morning to make sure people who shop our store can get to the goods we received today.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 


I most assuredly have discussed the win and that is in the free market, of which you refuse to accept. You do not see anything other than what you want to see.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Hey, great thread.

Haven't read all 8 pages yet, but I'm sure the Crapitalist Zombies are circling the wagons and launching all sorts of naive empty cliches about freedom™ at you.


Anyway just wanted to interrupt that party to say - in regards to your Solar Public Works project idea - I wrote about something very similar in this thread a few years ago:

Fighting Global Warming Without Carbon Taxes

The idea being that we kickstart a clean energy economy by forcing banks to lend money for retrofits and renewable energy projects at bare minimum interest rates, so the cost of the loan is instantly offset by the energy savings.



That's a huge win for the planet AND the general public, but of course the fossil fuel oligarchy and the banking cartel would be adamantly against it. So they will flood all available channels with their usual rhetoric about how this is an assault on personal liberty somehow, orchestrated by evil big government communists who just want to take our freedoms away and punish hard working people by giving their money to lazy treehugging hippies instead.

And with that I now return you to your regularly scheduled sock puppets



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by gentledissident
 


I most assuredly have discussed the win and that is in the free market, of which you refuse to accept. You do not see anything other than what you want to see.

Perhaps you are saying that the "win" I describe is actually a loss? If you want people to see what you want them to see, you should try being less vague. Goodnight.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:02 AM
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For starters, solar panels don't last forever and must be replaced roughly every three years. Your plan would devastate any country's economy.

Second, to keep things simple, socialism looks nice on paper but doesn't work when you throw humans into the mix. Someone will always be superior to you, there is no such thing as equality. Trying to "correct" people using law and control never works. It is similar to forcing kindergartners to share when psychologically their brain will not allow it. They quite simple can't share and forcing them to do so will result in no good outcome. Similarly, people are greedy, needy, and overall selfish. You think you don't fit that stereotype? Well, good for you. When you subscribe to socialism, idealism is usually not far behind. Idealism does nothing but wrought chaos and you would do well to avoid it.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM
What a nice little circle jerk you socialists have goin on here. OP, you have clearly never run a business. Never. You pull wild numbers out of your ass and expect some stupid plan of yours to work just because you think it will. Try that nonsense with a bank when you're applying for a business loan.

Socialism has never been more than some idealistic fantasy that when put into practice, destroys absolutely everything in its path. Oh, but YOUR idea of socialism is different, right? Wrong.


Are you saying that something like this should not be applied because it is, in its current state, an ideal? Where would we be as a species if we rejected all ideals that were brought to our attention? Also, do not confuse socialism with statism, please



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Orderamongchaos
For starters, solar panels don't last forever and must be replaced roughly every three years. Your plan would devastate any country's economy.


Man I love the insane "facts" people just come up with on the internet.

I work in the solar industry. Our panels have a 25 year warranty.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by Orderamongchaos
Second, to keep things simple, socialism looks nice on paper but doesn't work when you throw humans into the mix. Someone will always be superior to you, there is no such thing as equality. Trying to "correct" people using law and control never works. It is similar to forcing kindergartners to share when psychologically their brain will not allow it. They quite simple can't share and forcing them to do so will result in no good outcome. Similarly, people are greedy, needy, and overall selfish. You think you don't fit that stereotype? Well, good for you. When you subscribe to socialism, idealism is usually not far behind. Idealism does nothing but wrought chaos and you would do well to avoid it.


"Human nature" is not a static principle, it is based on the environment people are placed or born in. You can't say "Oh, well, from what I can tell from present society, humanity is naturally greedy!" You are ignoring the both the present environment and how humanity existed thousands of years ago. If you place someone in a capitalist society, they have do adapt, they have to be competitive because everyone else is, they have to be selfish because resources are unevenly distributed, etc. As for your kindergarten analogy, it falls under the same fallacy. From the moment they entered society, the are given the same covert schemas where they must compete, whether it be from their parents, peers, or from the media. If you look at human history prior to 3000 years or so ago, everything was pretty much what we envision as "communism," resources were evenly distributed, hunting groups and tribes were democratic (what would apply to workplaces nowadays), and cooperation dominated over competition



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
This is how I see it:


wow...you are so wrong is not even funny.


Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
Capitalism and corporate profit are driving us away from self sustainability.


Capitalism has NOTHING to do with corporate profit, and what has been driving us away from "self sustainability" are the socialist plans and ideas which have been implemented in the Republic of these United States for the past 100 years...



Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
We are being stripped of our ability to grow our own food, educate ourselves, and provide for own well being through regulation, laws, and advertising influence that are all designed to limit our choices, and increase the profit of the corporations helping to fund the passing of these laws and regulations.


Capitalism is an economic system, not a form of government hence it is not the reason for all that you claim is happening to us...

Big Brother/Big government/SOCIALISM have been the ones which have been stripping our ability to grow our own food, "because the socialist/fascist government/Big brother" say they know better than us what we need to eat...

Government intervention/socialism has become the judge on how we can educate ourselves and our children. In fact it is Big Brother/socialism which has even gone so far as to tell us what we must learn. It has implemented regulations and laws which are meant to control us more, and this happens only under leftwing/socialist fascist governments...



Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
The only ones that "profit" from that are the lawmakers being paid by the corporations to limit our abilities to provide for ourselves and the people that are willing to lay down and pay the corporate master their fee for compliance.


None of the above has anything to do with Capitalism...



Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
Capitalism is driving us towards a tyranny of corporate dependence, and not away from it, as some people seem to think.


You are wrong yet again... Let me try to show you the truth.

I have posted this so many times I don't know why I have to keep posting it.

The Republic of The United States stopped being a true capitalist/free market system since at least 1913, when PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS under a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT AS PRESIDENT signed into law the Federal Reserve Act, giving the power of the economy of this nation to the world socialist/fascist elites who created a note of tender, the U.S. Dollar, with nothing real to back it up hence they knew this system could not only be controlled by them, but it could be crashed at their whim to gain more power and control over people...

These same PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS under Woodrow Wilson, a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT funded the IRS and all the taxes as they exist now, which in turn has allowed for the world socialist/fascist elites to control us more and squeeze us of our hard earned money...

It was these same PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS who implemented laws and regulations to restrict small businesses and Americans making us slaves of the world socialist/fascist elites...

Now, if you truly want to learn the truth you should inform yourself better always instead of swallowing the lies and propaganda...


Originally posted by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh
How does that equate to freedom?


I think you are simply too confused and ignorant on the facts hence in your ignorance you try to blame capitalism for what Big brother/socialism has done not only to the Republic of the United States, but to the whole world.

You have swallowed completely the lie from the socialist/fascist elites in blaming capitalism for what socialism has brought to the world...

edit on 8-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)





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