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Poll: 24 Percent of Americans Believe States Have a Right to Secede

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by olaru12
 



I agree Texas should secede. I'm a native Texan and still own a section in the panhandle but I prefer to live in New Mexico away from the racism and hatred directed against my beautiful Hispanic girlfriend. "Good ole boys" ....yeah right!


You mean you prefer to live where there are more Hispanics?


Who is racist??



No, I prefer to live where there is a tolerance of all races. I find that there is a live and let live attitude in Santa Fe not found anywhere in Texas; Even Austin.

Hey, I agree with you...Texas should secede and keep it's intolerance isolated. I was born and raised in Lubbock and witnessed it first hand.

edit on 7-6-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by GD21D
I think seceding is a viable option if enough states were to get on board.


This is true. If enough States band together to seceed, they could overpower the Federal power and break away, but this isn't likely to happen. If say Texas, California, New York, Illinois and Florida banded together to seceed, this may verywell be enough to overpower the Federal government and federal forces.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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The problem is that 25% are spread out among the 50 state so there is only an average of a half a percent in each state.. You need 51% in a single state to make it happen which means it won't happen.

Having said that there is no need to secede the states just need to assert their 10th Amendments rights and stop cow towing to the feds. The problem with that is they are all hooked on federal hand outs right down to police departments Sheriffs and schools etc. so that is also unlikely to happen... Bottom line is (I hate to be pessimistic) were screwed...



edit on 7-6-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Absolutely not a violation of the constitution. However, secession is against the law. Read the SC decision Texas VS. White. IMO that is just "color of law" BS, but there it is.

Here are some interesting thoughts on the subject.



Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. – Abraham Lincoln, January 12, 1848 speech in Congress


A bit ironic coming from Abraham, eh?



The future inhabitants of both the Atlantic and Mississippi states will be our sons. We think we see their happiness in their union, and we wish it. Events may prove otherwise; and if they see their interest in separating why should we take sides? God bless them both, and keep them in union if it be for their good, but separate them if it be better. – Thomas Jefferson




The error is in the assumption that the General Government is a party to the constitutional compact. The States formed the compact, acting as sovereign and independent communities. – Vice President John C. Calhoun




The procedure of secession was to have an election for delegates to a state convention, to meet in convention, and to adopt ordinances of secession. This was done in accord with the Southern understanding of what would be in keeping with the United States Constitution. It had, after all, been ratified by the states acting through conventions. Could they not "un-ratify"it – secede from the Union – in the same fashion? – Clarence Carson




The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the States; and these, in uniting together, have not forfeited their Nationality, nor have they been reduced to the condition of one and the same people. If one of the States chose to withdraw its name from the contract, it would be difficult to disprove its right of doing so – Alex de Tocqueville, 1835




If the Declaration of Independence justifies the secession from the British empire of 3,000,000 of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of 5,000,000 of Southrons from the Federal Union – New York Tribune, December 17, 1860




We protest solemnly in the face of mankind, that we desire peace at any sacrifice, save that of honor. In independence we seek no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the states with which we have lately been confederated. All we ask is to be let alone – that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms. This we will, we must resist to the direst extremity. The moment that this pretension is abandoned, the sword will drop from our grasp, and we shall be ready to enter into treaties of amnesty and commerce that cannot but be mutually beneficial. So long as this pretension is maintained, with a firm reliance on that Divine Power which covers with its protection the just cause, we must continue to struggle for our inherent right to freedom, independence, and self government. – President Jefferson Davis' first address to the Confederate Congress


edit on 7-6-2012 by METACOMET because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
There has been "predictions".

The one from a Russian is intriguing.

WSJ article from Dec 2008

MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.

Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S. by 2010




wild !


I doubt that Alaska would join Russia of their own accord. Ditto with Hawaii. I could see it being its own republic.

Anyways, I hope that this statistic continues to go up.

I look forward to the birth of the Kansas Free State


Unless it would get hijacked by religious nutjobs. That'd be awful.
edit on 7-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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And those 24% would be wrong.
California would maybe be ale to pull it off but thats about it.
If that were to happen most states would collapse and have a military dictatorships armed with nukes and thats not good for anyone.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by gorgi
 


What makes California more separatist than the rest of Americans? I would imagine that it would be the opposite.

Especially when you consider their massive funding shortfalls which will lead them begging to get bailed out by the federal government. Although I suppose that is true about nearly every state at this point to some degree.
edit on 7-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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what's really sad about this is that 76% of Americans(?) believe otherwise

have the last 2 generations been sooooo distracted with gadgets that they do not even recognize the basics ??



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by gorgi
 


What makes California more separatist than the rest of Americans? I would imagine that it would be the opposite.

Especially when you consider their massive funding shortfalls which will lead them begging to get bailed out by the federal government. Although I suppose that is true about nearly every state at this point to some degree.
edit on 7-6-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)


I am not saying they will or should or that its residents would like that. Im just saying that if it did it would have a better chance of surviving than most of the states. Just a hypothetical answer to the hypothetical question that was brought up.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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I don't know what the solution is but it seems clear we can't keep going like we have been. The majority of Americans fall into two categories, Democrat or Republican and one side always feels held hostage by the other. Maybe I'm just extremely frustrated and angry because I see them both as mostly the same now, in collusion together to keep us locked in a two party system where everyone but them and their buddies lose.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by gorgi
 



California would maybe be ale to pull it off but thats about it. 
If that were to happen most states would collapse and have a military dictatorships armed with nukes and thats not good for anyone.


I got a good laugh at the part about California being the only state able to pull it off.


You might find this article interesting. The CMA considers CA's potential debt default riskier than almost any country in the world. 


Using data released by Credit Market Analytics (CMA) from the third quarter of 2010, this table shows the probability of default for various countries and U.S. states. Remarkably, investors view Illinois and California as some of the most risky sovereign debt issuers in the world--even more risky than Spain and almost slightly less risky than Iraq.

The probability of default or restructuring over the next five years is viewed as 21 percent for Illinois and California. Michigan is nearly as high, and Nevada’s risk comes in at 16.7 percent, or 24th in the world, among these traded entities.

By contrast, the probability of default for Texas is only 7 percent, and the United States’ probability is put at just 4.2 percent. In other words, debt issued by California and Illinois are seen as five times riskier than debt issued by the United States government. Nevada is considered 4 times riskier. Interestingly, Argentina, despite rapid GDP growth, is high on the list--probably because it did default in 2002. Greece’s odds of default are put at roughly 50-50.


Link



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by gorgi
 



California would maybe be ale to pull it off but thats about it. 
If that were to happen most states would collapse and have a military dictatorships armed with nukes and thats not good for anyone.


I got a good laugh at the part about California being the only state able to pull it off.


You might find this article interesting. The CMA considers CA's potential debt default riskier than almost any country in the world. 


Using data released by Credit Market Analytics (CMA) from the third quarter of 2010, this table shows the probability of default for various countries and U.S. states. Remarkably, investors view Illinois and California as some of the most risky sovereign debt issuers in the world--even more risky than Spain and almost slightly less risky than Iraq.

The probability of default or restructuring over the next five years is viewed as 21 percent for Illinois and California. Michigan is nearly as high, and Nevada’s risk comes in at 16.7 percent, or 24th in the world, among these traded entities.

By contrast, the probability of default for Texas is only 7 percent, and the United States’ probability is put at just 4.2 percent. In other words, debt issued by California and Illinois are seen as five times riskier than debt issued by the United States government. Nevada is considered 4 times riskier. Interestingly, Argentina, despite rapid GDP growth, is high on the list--probably because it did default in 2002. Greece’s odds of default are put at roughly 50-50.


Link




California has debt problems for many reasons. A big issue is that California pays out more than it takes in to and from the federal government.
Artilce

I love reading uninformed peoples posts.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by gorgi
 



California has debt problems for many reasons. A big issue is that California pays out more than it takes in to and from the federal government.


Yes, many reasons. And whose fault is it??

Can you keep a straight face when you say that CA is responsible enough to be self sufficient?

CA is bankrupt; economically and intellectually. 



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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I guess that if California secceded they would be able to repudiate their debt and create their own currency. As long as they start spending wisely after that and don't hit the printing press to hard. If they were able to create a precious metals supported currency that'd be best



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by olaru12
Most states couldn't even exist with out federal subsidies. It's just big truck, macho swagger on the part of
those trying to cash in on the current anti obama trend.



they wouldn't need federal subsidies. they'll be able to print their own money and run their own economy and collect their own federal taxes.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by randomname

Originally posted by olaru12
Most states couldn't even exist with out federal subsidies. It's just big truck, macho swagger on the part of
those trying to cash in on the current anti obama trend.



they wouldn't need federal subsidies. they'll be able to print their own money and run their own economy and collect their own federal taxes.



Huh???

Please tell me how you can collect Federal taxes when you have seceded from Fed.

Here's a definition for ya...

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Granted that Texas could secede and be an independent entity. And they should!!
edit on 7-6-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 


because most likely county's would become like mini states, districts or provinces with a central government seated at the state capitol.



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