This is a Sexist Thread! (Men's Rights)

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


I wonder how different things will be if we were a matriarchy? What are the advantages and disadvantages of a matriarchy vs. a patriarchy.

Originally posted by DocHolidaze

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
i grew up in world were women said to be equal to men and as ive gotten older i have seen that not to be true, women are better at certain aspects of this life, as men are better at certain aspects of this life, WE ARE NOT EQUAL, we can and have for years lived together and obviously succeed since our word population is going up, i think the whole feminist movement is just a bandwagon for sheep to jump on to make themselves feel as there not part of the heard, and i swear to God if another chick with a fohawk tries to punch me i will treat her as if she was a man(BINK...right in the jaw)........EQUALITY FOR ALL

edit on 7-6-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)

Your sexism is showing.

Why wouldn't you defend yourself from anyone trying to attack you, regardless of gender? Your reluctance to hit a woman is your own sexism, not anyone else's.

and im curious do you not think that women are better at certain aspects of life just as men are, sure u can train at anything, but inherently or instinctively are the two genders not differnt?

Gender is a social construct, not a biological one. I would answer your question, if it were a little clearer. Can you cite examples of what you are talking about in regards to advantages one sex has over another?

Originally posted by Suspiria
For every man who thinks they are getting the pointy end of the sexist stick, probably an equal number of mothers carried and loved them.

I have two sons who I would kill for. Never at any point in time do I imagine I will look upon them as lesser beings or pigs that should have deserved the abortion bucket, and if I have raised them right, neither will the mothers of their children.

Instead of being at each others throats, how about we set about finding a happy medium eh? Why can't we all just get along.

I don't think I've met any man haters, apart from the odd boiler suited lesbian lady that is.

yes ur awesome, we are the ying and yang without one there could not be the other

Originally posted by SuspiriaInstead of being at each others throats, how about we set about finding a happy medium eh? Why can't we all just get along.

People need to let childish behavior go for this to happen first. Even this thread is wrought with it. When it comes to social issues its like people cant acknowledge someone else has problems. Instead of saying oh thats troubling we should fix that, It instead immediately becomes a battle to see who has the bigger case of woe is me.

reply to post by ThreeBears


for every article you pointed to from the msm, I bet I could find 10 non msm articles that show a man or boy as being the victim, but the msm doesn't get the ratings when they show how the man gets abused too,

Originally posted by Suspiria
Instead of being at each others throats, how about we set about finding a happy medium eh? Why can't we all just get along.

It's what I've also been saying.
Funny thing about my mom, she adores me, but she thinks of men in general as pigs and jerks. She feels comfortable saying this in my presence because according to her, I'm different, so she doesn't see the contradiction. Moms are strange creatures...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

The ratio of men to women in politics is still appalling, how typical to use the one and only example of a female priminister to generalise that women are not peaceful.

One woman? Take a look at Hillary Clinton, didn't she gloat over her US Army invading foreign nations, and murdering foreign citizens?

Elizabeth the first, Elizabeth of Denmark, Queen Victoria, Queen Mary of Scotalnd, French - English skirmishes.

There are fewer women in politics ... thank god, because they are appalingly greater numbers as bloodthirsty. Or did you not read "I Claudius", or the history of Cleopatra. Wasn't it the Drinking, and women that made Herodes the way he was.

It isn't merely HIllary Clinton, or Margaret Thatcher ...

Oh, and ... let's not forget Chinese history. How many usurbers of the throne does there exist, some of whome even killed their own sons to hold power.

reply to post by Egyptia

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the crown, a very old saying, with more than a grain of truth, just like behind every great man there is a woman, strange, after Einsteins wife died he did not do much work.

Originally posted by tw0330
reply to post by Furbs

 

here you go

putative father registry

Oregon's adoption law states:
The mother of a child was married at the time of the conception or birth of the child, and it has been determined that her husband at such time was not the father of the child; in this case, consent of the husband is not required.

Men unable to pay child support because of lack of money sentenced to jail here

good father sues for child custody against the state

Currently, Michigan law does not give parental rights to biological fathers if the mother of the child is married at the time of the child's birth to another man. here

Court: Dads Don't Have Right To A Lawyer In Child Support Contempt Cases

In many states, even with 50/50 child custody, them man is still required to pay child support.

I could go on for ever here. Just do a little research and you will find hundreds of violations. But if you did that, you wouldn't have your argument now would you.

What rights are these laws violating. You gave me a big list of laws, but you aren't actually saying which rights are being violated by them. Forgive me if I do not take biased websites like "mensrights.com" as the end all be all of the argument. The only one that I might even begin to concede on is the "Right to a Lawyer" aspect, but I know from experience that it swings both ways. Women don't get one either. It is a family law issue, not a sexism issue.

Originally posted by nonono

Originally posted by Suspiria
Instead of being at each others throats, how about we set about finding a happy medium eh? Why can't we all just get along.

It's what I've also been saying.
Funny thing about my mom, she adores me, but she thinks of men in general as pigs and jerks. She feels comfortable saying this in my presence because according to her, I'm different, so she doesn't see the contradiction. Moms are strange creatures...

Maybe it's a generation thing I don't know.
Personally I've encountered an equal enough number of arseholes from both sexes never to make that generalisation.

Originally posted by Egyptia
reply to post by tw0330

 

The world has been a patriarchal system for thousands of years. Women's rights is a direct response and retalliation to the fact that it has been a man's world from what seems the beginning of hisorical data.

It is still a man's world even if there are Women's Studies being taught in schools and not The Study of Men.

To this day the majority of the world is dominated by men and 'women' are subjected to what diminished capacity they are relegated to.

We are not even close to a place where we can rule together as equal's.

You want to discuss what isn't fair? Try being a woman in this world.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Egyptia because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2012 by Egyptia because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2012 by Egyptia because: (no reason given)

I think that many men could use a lesson or two in terms of basic respect towards women, I have too many female friends that relate endless stories of verbal abuse and harassment. I don't think any of that is fair.

But, while ruling class is in fact men, it is also a very small percentage of population. Not sure we can fundamentally attribute the imbalance and hold responsible the vast majority of men that do not in fact rule.

I don't think one can morally justify retaliation against all men based on history or based on the behavior of some. Nothing sucks more than being a respectful hard working man who is expected to apologize or compensate for what other men do or other men did, because, in a world where near psychopathic behaviors are required to become successful; all those things unfair for women, are also unfair for most men as well.

A man cannot reasonably expect to find a love partner (aside from the gay circles) who will financially support him. A woman, on the other hand, can. Not very many women are willing to give up on that opportunity.

Why are so many women tremendously disinterested in science, math and physics in proportion to men? It is always incredibly refreshing when I meet any women in any of these fields, but also so rare! Men can only do so much to help that situation, most of that change towards equality has to come from within.

As a Latino working in the US I have seen a great deal of discrimination, but I have overcome it by being extremely good at what I do for a living.

I've also met many women (some who are also minorities) who have been successful that way. I think they are getting much further than the ones focused on thinking of themselves as victims.

-rrr

Originally posted by paganini

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

The ratio of men to women in politics is still appalling,

Why would you use the word appalling?perhaps the numbers will never balance out because of the simple lack of interest among the gender?

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc how typical to use the one and only example of a female priminister to generalise that women are not peaceful. Thatcher was a conservative, her "leadership" was at a time when there were even LESS women in politics as there is today and the war that she "fought" was over the islands no one even knew existed until they were under "threat"

There were more examples given. How many exactly do you need before you can acknowledge that a " feminine touch" as you so put it wouldn't make much of a difference? It's no small stretch of the imagination after all to entertain the notion that the genders are in fact very similar. IM0 having either sex dominate poltics isn't inherently beneficial or detrimental.

I choose the thatcher example because of the list given, she was in charge of an entire country, there was technically no one above her and the point i was making is that she was a brute - but not all women are. In general (as we are generalising in this thread) women are more likely to share their resource's compared to men.

And if you look at history you'll also find a slew of female warriors from all around the globe spanning different points of history . One could even surmise that early on in human civilization , women became conditioned to violence from living together with males.

In comparison to the amount of history taking place, there are very few of these women warriors that you speak of, maybe they needed affermitive action back then too

Originally posted by Dookie Master
reply to post by torque

 

I was taught to be exercise my manners, especially around women. I have been rebuffed more than a handful of times for opening a door for a female. I must say when in a professional situation it is very difficult to decide if I should hold the door from the meeting room for a lady or to walk out ahead of the woman because we are "equals" in the workplace. I am honestly trying to be a "gentleman" (as I understand the definition), but I do not want to upset the female for whom I am holding the door. A Catch-22...

edit on 7-6-2012 by Dookie Master because: misspelling of "been"

Yep. What I do now is just hold the door for everyone that way no one can take it the wrong way.

Sad that it even has to cross your mind if being courteous is gonna piss someone off...

Originally posted by bjarneorn

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

The ratio of men to women in politics is still appalling, how typical to use the one and only example of a female priminister to generalise that women are not peaceful.

One woman? Take a look at Hillary Clinton, didn't she gloat over her US Army invading foreign nations, and murdering foreign citizens?

Elizabeth the first, Elizabeth of Denmark, Queen Victoria, Queen Mary of Scotalnd, French - English skirmishes.

There are fewer women in politics ... thank god, because they are appalingly greater numbers as bloodthirsty. Or did you not read "I Claudius", or the history of Cleopatra. Wasn't it the Drinking, and women that made Herodes the way he was.

It isn't merely HIllary Clinton, or Margaret Thatcher ...

Oh, and ... let's not forget Chinese history. How many usurbers of the throne does there exist, some of whome even killed their own sons to hold power.

You are absolutely right and so i think we should continue on with saturating our political systems with men so that 99% of is can die peacefully in a nuclear holocaust - That the survivors will blame on women

Originally posted by tw0330
Well, to many women out there it will be any how.

Men's Rights and Social Sexism against men.

Many don't care to talk about this topic, in fear of being labeled at sexist, just for bringing it up.
So I will be the sexist and bring it up. (note: I believe that all women deserve the same rights as men, just not more)

I will keep my opening post short, as I want this thread to be a discussion thread and not just my opinions.

Think Pink (but what about blue?) -
205,000 women are diagnosed with Breast cancer (40,000 die)
190,000 Men are Diagnosed with Prostate Cancer (34,000 die)
A difference of only 15,000 people.
Breast cancer gets 11 billion in government Research funding while Prostate cancer gets only 2 billion.
Overall Breast Cancer gets 50x the amount of funding than Prostate Cancer.
In Britain there are over 300 specialized breast cancer nurses to every specialized prostate cancer nurse.

Definitely unfair, there should be equal funding or at least proportional funding

Right to choose-
If a woman doesn't want a child she has the right to abort it or put it up for adoption.
If she keeps it, she has a right to child support.

If a man wanted to keep the baby but the woman wanted an abortion, does he have a right to choose?
Would he have the right to ask for child support if he did?

Nope: He has no rights in most states concerning reproductive rights.

That one's kind of tricky. If both were willing participants, then the man should have the same rights as the woman in making the decision...but then it's her body that has to carry the baby, so it's just a tricky one. For the adoption part, it's easy, let the man have the same rights to custody as the woman would have

University: My wife is in nursing school, she had to take one of two classes to graduate, An African Culture Class or Women's Studies. She chose women's studies (very eye opening class, and very sexist)

Do Schools have a men's studies class? Nope that would be sexist.

Agreed that if they have a special class for one gender, they need to have a class for the other.

Child Custody: Women receive physical custody of 92% of all children of separation, and men only 4%. [Department of Health & Human Services]

That's usually defended by the "stability" of the mother being more than the father, but those figures show a definite bias!

JURY BIAS: Women are acquitted of spousal murder at a rate 9 times that of men [Bureau Justice Statistics -- 1.4% of men vs 12.9% of women]

I guess they use the sympathy card a lot or women are just better at killing and getting away with it

COURT BIAS: Men are sentenced 2.8 times longer than women for spousal murder [Bureau Justice Statistics -- men at 17 years vs women at 6 years]

terms should be more equal

JUSTICE SYSTEM BIAS: Women are assesessed for Child Support on average at half the rate of men, yet are twice as likely to default on Child Support payments. Ninety Seven (97%) of all child support prosecutions are against fathers. [Census Bureau]

That one kind of makes sense because there's a larger number of custody situations where the mother has the custody (92% vs 4%... and also shows that the woman is more likely to pay support if she doesn't have custody)

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Numerous credible studies from independant researchers report that women are the initiators of domestic violence in 58% of all cases, and cause physical abuse in almost 50% of all cases, yet women only account for 6% of all criminal proceedings in such matters.

Men don't want to admit to being beat on by a woman

CHILD VIOLENCE: Mothers commit 55% of all child murders and biological fathers commit 6%. NIS-3 indicates that Mother-only households are 3 times more fatal to children than Father-only households. Despite these compelling figures, children are systematically removed from the natural fathers who are their most effective protectors.

Since the mothers get the custody, they are the ones around the children the most and do the most abuse. I didn't realize the biological father rate was so low, good for Bio-Dads!

WEALTH: Women hold 65% of the total wealth in the USA [Fortune Magazine]

I wonder what the percent would be if they took Oprah out of the equation?

General Schooling: With the women's movement Schools moved to tailor classes around girls to allow for future success. in general girls tend to be able to learn easier through a lecture type of atmosphere while boys tend to learn more with hands on schooling.

Hands-on is actually the most used method right now, so gotta say fail on this one

You've pointed out a lot of cases where women are given preference. I'm sure there are other cases where men are given preference, but these are pretty blantant and should be taken care of in some way.

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by nonono
Then you're wrong. Statistics have shown that about half of all violent confrontations in domestic violence cases are started by women.

Could you cite that statistic please?

No need to cite it... I read it under a snapple cap so it must be true...

Snapple is AWESOME!

There are definitely some discrimination towards both sexes, just in different things. So yes, mens rights have their place in this world. Just as not every feminist is a misandric ugly lesbian, not every mens rights advocate is a sexist misogynist.

But I am uncomfortable with the whole feminist / "masculinist" dichotomy. The real conflict should be between those who consider double standards and discrimination to be acceptable, and egalitarians of both sexes.

I do agree with the OP that there clearly seems to be a "bias" against men, especially concerning, abortions, child custody, child support, cancer research/prevention of breast verses prostrate, and through the court systems concerning "crime" and punishments for those crimes.

Here are some thoughts I have on these matters-

1. The morning after pill should be easy to get and affordable, if a sexual union occurs without the "intent" of making a baby, however no "birth control" was used to prevent it, lol, for whatever reason......the women should be able to take this pill. After that, if she becomes pregnant it should then become a MUTUAL decision by BOTH partners to decide the "fate" of THIER baby.

2. Child custody in the state I live in is given 50/50 to parents unless there is some reason one of the parents is "unfit"...or the parents agree to other terms for some reason.

3. Child support is determined by a "formula" as explained to me by a lawyer, basically, if custody is not 50/50 which ever parent makes more money or has the child more often will be plugged into this "formula" to determine what amount will be paid by either parent, if anything...

4. All cancer research and prevention is important, both Men and Women need to work together, and insist NO Cancer prevention and "cures" are suppressed, which I believe they are, in order for big pharm to keep many of us sick and dependant on thier "medicines". I suspect Breast cancer gets more attention because "Breasts" are so "valued" by both Men and Women as what defines us as women, lol, I suspect if it was "Penis" cancer causing penis's to be removed, it would be given ALOT of attention, as it should be, We love breasts and penis's..

5. I have not checked your facts on Domestic violence yet, but my life experiences and observations give me "pause" those facts are acurrate, but not sure? No doubt there are some "sick violent puppies" out there of both sexes, but overall Men are more aggressive then Women, they certainly have the strength to "over power" them in most cases, and Violence against Women is rampant, and I have experienced this 1st hand.

6. Our court systems are so "fundamentally" unfair that both Men and Women need to take a stand on this together, Men probably get the "short end of the stick" on this issue, on that I would agree.

I will end this with my thoughts on "Women's Liberation".....while I understand "how" and "why" women "bought" into this movement...as Women, it is important for us to understand that the "valid" concerns this movement brought to light "are" worthy of discussion between Men and Women, BUT, it was "highjacked" by Rockerfeller and Co. to further thier agenda to "divide and conquer" and basically destroy traditional families.

I heard a "chilling" interview from someone who claimed to have been told, sorry can't remember his name, that he was told by David Rockerfeller that the "Women's Movement" was one of thier most brilliant moves, basically, they doubled thier tax base putting women in the work force, AND had the double benefit of taking "control" of thier children early in life......now think about how friggin "sick" that is....

I would have LOVED being a "homemaker", but growing up it was expected to go to College, I did, Cal Poly, get a good job, I did, NEVER depend on a Man........Well, that's were the WHOLE problem comes in.....The Whole Essence of EVERYTHING I wanted actually was actually ALL about "Depending" on the Man I loved....lol...oh gosh, sorry, this is making me cry.....will re-group and check in later.......Good Post OP.....

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

You are absolutely right and so i think we should continue on with saturating our political systems with men so that 99% of is can die peacefully in a nuclear holocaust - That the survivors will blame on women

Well, vote Hillary Clinton into Power then. I'm sure she'll be able to give you a heated speech about how all men are evil, and provide you with enough fuel to nuke some country in the world.

That way, you can all gloat about how you managed to kill them all in one strike.

Originally posted by bjarneorn
A woman who hates you, will spend hours and days, even weeks and months, talking to your wife and getting her to leave you. A woman who hates you, will undermine your work ... backtalk you, she will sleep with your boss to get you fired. A woman will have you excluded from social gatherings, because she doesn't like you. A woman who doesn't like you, will never listen to your version of any story ... she won't like your ideas, or anything about you. She'll ruin your business, and ruin your life. And you don't have to know her, she only has to "not like you".

This is a big part of the point...and then they claim that men engage in 90% of society's violence. The above apparently doesn't count.