Survivalism as insanity.

Howdy y'all.

I am writing because there are certain issues with my situation recently, and I have absolutely no idea what to react.

Now, let me start with a short description of my family. The people I consider them are my mother and my grandmother(my grandfather died, and my father is gone).

My mother is some sort of a cultist believing in some higher power beyond description. I believe it's called kryon or something like that. Imagine she comes to me twice a week with a 'message'(printed letter) from this being who tells her that everything will be fine, and we are only months away from paradise, and well, I hold other kind of beliefs, and to me, all of it stinks like some cultist bollocks. It is possible it annoys me so much because she reads like a robot, but all in all, it is mostly bull#(I wish not to elaborate at the moment). Also, she has a few copies of the watchtower.(so I kind of don't know how to define what she believes in)

Anyway. My grandmother is a devout christian, waiting for Jesus to come. But not just devout. The absolute blueprint for a christian. Whatever the church tells her, she would do without question.
Every attempt of mine, to tell her how bollocks is christianity, a way to control the masses through the denial of science, and some other cultist ways, resulted in a rather aggressive backlash. Shouting, screaming, cursing, telling me how a godless heathen I am destined to go to hell. She always says that christianity is the religion with the most followers, therefore it must be right. (BTW, she's the same person who thinks gun ownership should be punished as first degree murder, for guns are made to kill people.)

Both of them think that power resides where it should reside, and we should commit to this world, because it is going pretty darn well. They believe that the politicians run the countries, they...well you know. They devour all the crap the tally infuses into them. And yes, they watch it all day long(from end of their work, till they go to sleep, and of course, they sleep while the tally is on) You cannot possibly imagine how indoctrinated they are right until you talk to them about serious stuff.

They mostly consider me as a highly intelligent and well read one, right until the point when I start talking about my views. I tried to explain them everything I could, while backing my claims with as much evidence as possible, about the men behind the curtains, their agenda. I even showed them the 'agenda 21', pointing out the nastiest aspects. All in all, I have put a lot of work to convince them, but they deny. They never could disprove my theories, but they still deny, because 'these things are impossible, and god would not let these things happen'.

Well I do not say I am absolutely right in everything, but the pieces are kind of in place, and I feel I am very close to understanding things.

I always tried to keep claims I can't prove with evidence to a minimum, and most I have told them, I believe in. Not because somebody told me, but because I read a lot, while trying to put the pieces together, while applying occam's razor to everything, and not letting fear control my way of thinking through denial.

Anyway. Point is: a few days ago, they discovered about me, something I'd(with most of you) call survivalism. Just a pair of bug out bags, a manifesto I have written about everything I believe in, with plans of what I wish to do in case of various outcomes, my routes of survival, a crapload of maps, a few military knives. Nothing more than usual in this context. You know, no thermite, or blackpowder, c4 or any other kind of equipment suited for explosions or any kind of sabotage. Also, I have no ranged weaponry, though I am currently in the building of a crossbow(hunting, for mostly it is obsolete in a fight).

So they figured out that what I talk about I think seriously, and their absolute denial got to the point that they want me to be locked up in a crazy person hospital(um, what is the word...asylum, maybe?)
They said that they believe I am planning to go on a killing spree of some sort. They talk about Breivik all day, and think I am planning to do the same. I have no record of violence, or aggression. I kind of have asperger's, but I never ever ever hurt anybody without good provocation. And by provocation, I mean I never attacked first(unless a man hurt a woman. I never could bear that sort of thing).

[snipped]

I have tried to explain, to tell. But they would never believe anything they have not seen in the TV.
BTW: 'This wasn't in the tv, so it did not happen' kind of mentality really brings out the devil from me. I get so angry because of it, I practically cease to be able to speak.

What angers me even more, is the way they argue. Imagine two people shouting stupid claims at you tandem. Grown-up conversation with them is impossible if they think otherwise. Their zerg-rush tactics cannot be outmaneuvered, especially considering that I am a rather calm and quiet person.
Believe me, I have tried to fight fire with fire, raising my voice at the same time. It did not work, they started throwing stuff at me.

Beating me when I was a defenseless child was one thing. After a while, you kind of learn to take the hits. But when they start using the same kind of tactics politicians use, that kind of hits me more. 'My family is composed of spineless nutbags!' Well, it hurts.

Just for the sake of completeness, I would like to list the tactics I have seen from them:
-Panic mongering='You'll never have a job, you'll never have a wife or kids, you'll die alone and sad'(They kind of say this to me every single day.)
-Ad hominem='You are just like your father, a man without honour, who deserves nothing but pity.'
-Projection=Needs not to be explained. They accuse me of the very same things they use against me.
-Scapegoating='It is the people like you who ruin the world.'
-Conflating violence with power='We treated you the way we did, so you will be a strong man.'
-Bullying=I already explained. They are just like the people I tried to avoid all through primary school.
-Confusion=They(I think, deliberately) trying to oppose certain points of arguments with statements that absolutely don't fit into the context.
-Invoking God=They know I am an atheist. A man who does not believe in god, cannot argue with this(when he tries, the argument starts to slide away from the context).
-Saturation=They repeat the same statements at least 5 to 10 times.
-Disparaging education='This amount of reading made you insane.'
-Guilt by association=Claiming that the people I talk to, 'made me crazy'

So my question is: what is your way of enlightening people who are in absolute denial and devout worship of the tally? Who use the very same tactics mainstream media uses to ruin the lives of so many great men and women, who are much better at arguing than me? What would you do in my situation? Can they even lock me up?

Thank your for(if) reading it through.

P.S.: Sorry for the long post. It just felt good to write all this out of me.

Dude, why don't you just move out?

reply to post by Narcissous


wow ,, the Mid-east of Europe ,, sounds awfully like, the Mid-west of USA...

and whatever you do.... DONT call your writings A MANIFESTO..

everybody with Manifestos,, gets killed by their own government.. IMHO..


all kidding aside.

aside from the loneliness of living a life After,, anything BAD happens, without them... WHY do you try so hard, to be understood?


can you grab your B.O.B. and leave them,, if the time comes?

or would you put your life on the line,, to take the time to try to get them to come with you?


hard choices...Really Hard...

???what do you think?

I have no doubts that you love them very much. They are your family and you are devoted to them. That being said and I know you dont want to hear this, There are those people that you will never reach. After a life time of indoctranation and programing some people will not be able to deal with the reality. It is to hard for them to accept everything they have been told is a lie. I am very close to my girlfriends family and she has one aunt that i love to death but this woman refuses to admit there is anything wrong with the world. It hurts. You know in the end there is nothing you can do for them.

My best advice is to prep a little extra for them and hope when it hits the fan they wake up at the last minute. Good luck.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


My mother has lived with her mother all through her life, because we are this damn poor. I couldn't afford moving away, and there are no available jobs. There are more unemployed people here than employed, and even if I could get one, the average payment is equivalent to like 250dollars per month. Impossible to live from that. But no worries, I probably will be kicked out soon. I 'traded' them for until the end of the year(I believe this is the year things will collapse) If not, I'll become homeless anyway.

reply to post by darrman


An awful amount of people will stir # up if I disappear, I made sure of that, but okay, from now on, I'll call it pink unicorn diary.

I tried to enlighten them. Right up until this point, I had some care for them.

And I would not put my life on the line. There's one person I would put my life on the line for, but that person will come with me when I tell so.
Anyone who wishes to rot away in this cesspool, will be able to do it without my defiance.
Besides, they constantly did guantanamo on me. Depriving me of food, heat and personal freedom, so I can't even imagine what I was trying to accomplish.
I hated them since I was a little kid, but until now, I wished them to at least have some sort of knowledge about that certain kind of excrement which is about to hit the rotating device of metal panels.

Even more, a few months ago, my mother told, that if the system falls, she WANTS to die, because there's no point in living a life without the system. How matrix-y is that?

reply to post by David134


You are right. Despite all my hard feelings, I wish them to stay alive somehow.
But the lifetime of indoctrination is no excuse for this.
I was devoted to wikipedia, all my life, thinking that it is the absolute highground of knowledge.
Then I learned that wikipedia only represents the consensus of what the mainstream science considers right. That was hard. I was devastated.
Then I, step by step started to discover the truth, and I was terrified. It settled after a point though.

But seeing the same effects on the most important person in my life, when she was shown the same. Well it showed me how deep the indoctrination is. I understand why they refuse, but how they do not see on themselves how they deny, is beyond comprehension for me.

Do they not see themselves, when they become aggressive when faced with inarguable truth? I am so disconnected from all they believe in, I can't even imagine anymore what it felt like to be part of the game. The moment, my plug fell out was very long ago, I can't really remember what it was like.

Originally posted by Narcissous
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

My mother has lived with her mother all through her life, because we are this damn poor. I couldn't afford moving away, and there are no available jobs. There are more unemployed people here than employed, and even if I could get one, the average payment is equivalent to like 250dollars per month. Impossible to live from that. But no worries, I probably will be kicked out soon. I 'traded' them for until the end of the year(I believe this is the year things will collapse) If not, I'll become homeless anyway.

Well, I wish you the best of luck.

I moved out of my family's home when I was 17 and never looked back. Sometimes you just got to take a chance.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Thank you!

I would, really, I have no fears, but it is most certain that if I leave, it will be for the woods(I can't take the system anymore) and there's one who is still connected to this place. I will have to wait for that to be completed. Then off to the woods we go.
(plus the crossbow is incomplete. I will build that first)

I really feel for you. Living with them must be like hell. It's sad that people put up walls like that and deny anything they don't understand, or that which makes them the least bit uncomfortable to think about.

reply to post by rydizz


Thank you. I think it is the saddest that this reaction is so widespread. Ever since I know these things, I have been struggling to tell the truth, but it is a wee bit hard to argue with people who, rather than listening to me, deny with all their power. How are we supposed to turn events around when most of the people are like this? is there any chance we can win? This is my most frequent question. And I seem unable to find the answer. I just wish people to be free. And yet, it seems my efforts are without results.

I wish you all the best! You seem like the sort of person that can take care of themselves in pretty much any situation, so I bet you'll land on your feet, even though saying goodbye to family, however estranged they may be, can be difficult. I know this myself from my own life. I left home at 21 and when I did I'd wished I had years earlier! I get the feeling you're an extremely independent sort...it may be better to move out in any way you can and just keep in contact till it hits the fan...then head for the hills?

Anyways, best of luck to you!

reply to post by BobM88


Thank you! Your words are heartening. If it were only for me, I'd be far away, but I have to take care of another one, and unless the crap flows through the fan before, I'll have to wait. Also I am very much underequipped in ranged weaponry, and that is a thing I'll have to correct before going away.

Moving out would only look like being homeless now, for the only other place I could go is the streets. I'd rather wait till it starts, then head off to the great unknown.
I am 19 now, and yet I feel if I have to stay another year, I will hit the fan before crap does.
But I'll certainly not wait for the big ole' gov't to sort out the problems. It won't. Once things will rapidly start to collapse, it will only get worse. I would bet my army knife that the population will be moved into what I'd only call concentration camps(call it enclosed working environment if you wish, but it is the same) to curb future rebellions, and that is an outcome I'd rather avoid. The people stupid enough to wait for fema to collect them, deserve it.
What I am absolutely sure of, is that it will start soon(I'd go with this or the next year) and then the camp thing. They won't stop until the world looks like the Georgia Guidestones(500mil. population) but what is suspect is that before they start making people disappear en mass, they will round up everyone they manage to catch.

Whatever happens in any order(maybe dr. Laibow was right and first they'll bring out the airborne swine/bird flu hybrid, and then mix the vaccinations with squalene, maybe they'll just start rounding up people. but certainly infecting everyone they can seems easier) at the first sight of trouble, we, and my weaponry will move until reaching safe haven.

I would bet my life a thousand times on living off grid than trying to survive in it. Chances are(with my views) I would not last long, and chances are, that any of us are way out of the 500 million.

I just hope there will be a few like minded folks in my area who will do the same. After all, surviving in the long run will need other people.

I try not to get mixed up in someone's personal life, but why not, you seem like you could use some help. You definitely seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place with your families profound polarities. You love them regardless or else you would not try to convince them of your beliefs. You should know that pushing beliefs on someone who is not receptive to them doesn't work, is that not what they are doing to you?

I'll use a cliche, "A person convinced against their will is unconvinced still".

The ones that have the ears will open them to you, not before. Seems you have two choices, either leave or just shut up about it. That sounds harsh, but it is not working. Love them, respect their beliefs and if the SHTF you will be their hero. I can tell you wouldn't abandon people you love.

"Here the words and word-shrines of all being spring open to me; here all being wants to become words, here all becoming wants to learn to speak from me.

But down there-all speech is in vain! There, forgetting and passing-by are the best wisdom: that I have learned now!" ~ Thus Spoke Zarathustra

reply to post by seabhac-rua


That would mean he would have to work for a living .

reply to post by Narcissous


You mention the swine flu/avian flu...what scares the heck out of me is that lab created superflu from Holland, I believe?

SuperFlu

That makes me think of the Stephen King book, "The Stand"...the man made virus that got out and wiped out 98% of humanity...

reply to post by timewalker


But the thing is, that when SHTF comes, I will be the first to leave. I have decided that convincing people is now, not after it. I have tried maybe once, telling them things, nowadays I don't force them to converse with me, but sometimes they ram into me, telling about my 'stupidity, and insanity'. I let it go a few months back, but they still don't stop it.
I go down, to make some food for myself, they come into the kitchen and start: 'And your beliefs are also stupid because...'
It never seems to stop. By the time I could react, their ears are shut down again. It is an ugly type of hit and run strategy. If I could be as adamant as them in attacking others with different beliefs, they would be on our side by now. Problem is, that I am not that kind of a person, who learns to argue from FOX.

reply to post by SimonPeter


'He' has no problem working for a living. He has problem with obtaining a job at all in a job market filled with more unemployed than employed(65-35ratio i believe). 'He' also has a problem with 12hours a day jobs with 250bucks a month salary.

Also, 'he' would like if he was addressed directly rather than indirectly.
Claiming I have a problem with working is preposterous. I constantly try to keep this # of a house in one piece, of course that ain't work, I do it for free. No one thanks me, I don't care about it either, but your one line post addressing another post with some unbased claims is just enough. Leave if you have nothing better to do than bash. There are better places for that.

reply to post by BobM88


If I know it right, that is the one. I may be wrong but I believe avian and swine flu was mixed in creating it, then they made it airborne. It could indeed wipe out most of us.

If you look at it, both swine and avian flu wipes out avg 50 percent of the infected, and this hybrid is more potent. plus it is airborne. I would not be surprised if it could kill 70-85 of the population at least.
But vaccinations will help it a lot too, not mentioning the poor nutrition of the people already(the amount of junk food they consume)