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Spending Gap? Media Ignores $21 Million Unions Spent in Wisconsin

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posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Different Unions in different States have different rules on requiring membership within their respective units.

Some states have a "right to work" law.

"Right to Work" basically says that a union can not force membership.
(even though the non-member workers get the same benefits as the members anyway)

Some States do not have the "right to work" laws.

In those States, a union can have their unit members vote to "close the shop".

"Closed Shop" means that all new employees must join the union and pay dues or they get fired.
Yes, it sounds like the "Company" is held hostage in those cases (matter of opinion).

Some unions force the employers to hire from a waiting list of union members waiting for a job opening.
Those people have preference over non-members not on a list.

Some States have variations of the "right to work" laws.
For example, in some "right to work" states, a union that covers public sector employees can charge fees for grievance handling to non-members. members do not get charges. (extreme case grievances would be like an unjust firing for example).

In those same states, a private company union can't charge a non-member and must provide the "legal" work for free.

Very complicated sometimes !!



edit on Jun-11-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 

The State of Wisconsin is owned by the Koch Bros.



posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by brice
 

Apparently you've never heard of a closed shop.

I belonged to one.

It's forced union membership.

They take your money and run.


Thank you rtyfx for your reply, * for you. Though I have heard of a closed shop you can personally choose to leave and work in a non union work environment and you know it will be for less otherwise you would have left a long time ago.....no? You may feel they take your money and run away with it but it really does go to working on the betterment of the worker through fighting anti union legislation or promoting their latest demands and by the way if you are a member then you are the union.
brice
edit on 11-6-2012 by brice because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by LDragonFire
 

The State of Wisconsin is owned by the Koch Bros.


I'm not sure about the state, but I'm certain the state government is owned by the koch bros.



posted on Jun, 11 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


The Kochs millions against Soros billions...if the Kochs own a state then Soros owns the whole DNC and every liberal....really ridiculous statement...generalization and propoganda at it;s worst...shame.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by LDragonFire
 


The Kochs millions against Soros billions...if the Kochs own a state then Soros owns the whole DNC and every liberal....really ridiculous statement...generalization and propoganda at it;s worst...shame.


Can you prove how much Soros spent on the Wisconsin election?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by brice
 


Respectfully, I disagree. The improvement to WI economy is telling, as is the number of people who opted out of the union. Why should someone be FORCED without any say to be a part of a union?

Unions time has come and gone, but there is still a need for them. They are dinosaurs that must evolve. Rather than being funded by the workers and only for the workers unions should evolve into a 3rd part entity paid for by both. This will help remove the Us and Them mentality we have and encourage fairness, rather than a take all we can mentality.


Thank you for reading my post Occams, and I appreciate your rebuttal, star for you! Though I do not have any info on anybody opting out of unions (maybe you can provide?), nobody is ever forced to join a union.


I'm not a fan of the source, but here you are.
www.breitbart.com...

Basically all public employees were forced to join a Union, they had no say. The WI governor allowed them to have a say. This KILLS Democrats. Every taxpayer in WI was basically forced to fund Democrats through the forced union membership. Walker has given them the option, they can stay or leave, their choice. Democrats and Unions do not want them to have a choice.

This desertion by their members represents a massive vote of no confidence in unions like the America Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union and the American Federation of Teachers. AFSCME in Wisconsin lost 34,000 of its 62,000 members last year alone.

cnsnews.com...
Since they were given a choice 54% left the union. How is a choice, how is freedom, a bad thing?



posted on Jun, 13 2012 @ 11:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by brice
 

Apparently you've never heard of a closed shop.

I belonged to one.

It's forced union membership.

They take your money and run.


Thank you rtyfx for your reply, * for you. Though I have heard of a closed shop you can personally choose to leave and work in a non union work environment and you know it will be for less otherwise you would have left a long time ago.....no? You may feel they take your money and run away with it but it really does go to working on the betterment of the worker through fighting anti union legislation or promoting their latest demands and by the way if you are a member then you are the union.
brice
edit on 11-6-2012 by brice because: (no reason given)


This is not as simple as a single company, the entire public sector was closed shop. Every single public employee was forced to join the union. Some jobs you can't get outside of the public sector.



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by brice
 

Apparently you've never heard of a closed shop.

I belonged to one.

It's forced union membership.

They take your money and run.


Thank you rtyfx for your reply, * for you. Though I have heard of a closed shop you can personally choose to leave and work in a non union work environment and you know it will be for less otherwise you would have left a long time ago.....no? You may feel they take your money and run away with it but it really does go to working on the betterment of the worker through fighting anti union legislation or promoting their latest demands and by the way if you are a member then you are the union.
brice
edit on 11-6-2012 by brice because: (no reason given)


This is not as simple as a single company, the entire public sector was closed shop. Every single public employee was forced to join the union. Some jobs you can't get outside of the public sector.


Thank you for your thoughtful rebuttal. What jobs would that be? As far as I know every public position would have a comparable private sector job. Teachers, administrators, janitors, police, fireman, mayor all have comparable private sector jobs.You were lucky to be part of something bigger than yourself (and got paid better) for all the reasons I posted earlier. Remember the USA is one of the only countries that do not have mandatory vacation time for workers, even China's workers get 10 days paid vacation a year. Unions are required more the ever.
thank you for listening,
brice

edit on 15-6-2012 by brice because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by brice
 


Respectfully, I disagree. The improvement to WI economy is telling, as is the number of people who opted out of the union. Why should someone be FORCED without any say to be a part of a union?

Unions time has come and gone, but there is still a need for them. They are dinosaurs that must evolve. Rather than being funded by the workers and only for the workers unions should evolve into a 3rd part entity paid for by both. This will help remove the Us and Them mentality we have and encourage fairness, rather than a take all we can mentality.


Thank you for reading my post Occams, and I appreciate your rebuttal, star for you! Though I do not have any info on anybody opting out of unions (maybe you can provide?), nobody is ever forced to join a union.


I'm not a fan of the source, but here you are.
www.breitbart.com...

Basically all public employees were forced to join a Union, they had no say. The WI governor allowed them to have a say. This KILLS Democrats. Every taxpayer in WI was basically forced to fund Democrats through the forced union membership. Walker has given them the option, they can stay or leave, their choice. Democrats and Unions do not want them to have a choice.

This desertion by their members represents a massive vote of no confidence in unions like the America Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union and the American Federation of Teachers. AFSCME in Wisconsin lost 34,000 of its 62,000 members last year alone.

cnsnews.com...
Since they were given a choice 54% left the union. How is a choice, how is freedom, a bad thing?



Thank you for the information and Breitbart. I am not surprised such a large percentage of members left. If a government regulates a union impotent then there is nothing that a workers collective can do for the individual, so why waste the money on union dues because the coming lost wages and benefits, every cent is going to be needed for food!
Sorry state for Wisconsin middle class, the wealthy strike another blow for workers rights.
brice



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 11:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by rtyfx
reply to post by brice
 

Apparently you've never heard of a closed shop.

I belonged to one.

It's forced union membership.

They take your money and run.


Thank you rtyfx for your reply, * for you. Though I have heard of a closed shop you can personally choose to leave and work in a non union work environment and you know it will be for less otherwise you would have left a long time ago.....no? You may feel they take your money and run away with it but it really does go to working on the betterment of the worker through fighting anti union legislation or promoting their latest demands and by the way if you are a member then you are the union.
brice
edit on 11-6-2012 by brice because: (no reason given)


This is not as simple as a single company, the entire public sector was closed shop. Every single public employee was forced to join the union. Some jobs you can't get outside of the public sector.


Thank you for your thoughtful rebuttal. What jobs would that be? As far as I know every public position would have a comparable private sector job. Teachers, administrators, janitors, police, fireman, mayor all have comparable private sector jobs.You were lucky to be part of something bigger than yourself (and got paid better) for all the reasons I posted earlier. Remember the USA is one of the only countries that do not have mandatory vacation time for workers, even China's workers get 10 days paid vacation a year. Unions are required more the ever.
thank you for listening,
brice

edit on 15-6-2012 by brice because: (no reason given)


Just because there are teaching jobs that are private does not mean every teacher can leave the public school system and get one. Your solution to so many professions being forced into unions is that they can get jobs elsewhere, do you understand the job climate, and how hard it is to get ANY job whatsoever. Im sorry, but unless you can tell me a rational reason why every single public employee should be forced into a union without their consent, when the majority do not want to be in a union (54% left), then there is no discussion.



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 11:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by brice
 


Respectfully, I disagree. The improvement to WI economy is telling, as is the number of people who opted out of the union. Why should someone be FORCED without any say to be a part of a union?

Unions time has come and gone, but there is still a need for them. They are dinosaurs that must evolve. Rather than being funded by the workers and only for the workers unions should evolve into a 3rd part entity paid for by both. This will help remove the Us and Them mentality we have and encourage fairness, rather than a take all we can mentality.


Thank you for reading my post Occams, and I appreciate your rebuttal, star for you! Though I do not have any info on anybody opting out of unions (maybe you can provide?), nobody is ever forced to join a union.


I'm not a fan of the source, but here you are.
www.breitbart.com...

Basically all public employees were forced to join a Union, they had no say. The WI governor allowed them to have a say. This KILLS Democrats. Every taxpayer in WI was basically forced to fund Democrats through the forced union membership. Walker has given them the option, they can stay or leave, their choice. Democrats and Unions do not want them to have a choice.

This desertion by their members represents a massive vote of no confidence in unions like the America Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union and the American Federation of Teachers. AFSCME in Wisconsin lost 34,000 of its 62,000 members last year alone.

cnsnews.com...
Since they were given a choice 54% left the union. How is a choice, how is freedom, a bad thing?



Thank you for the information and Breitbart. I am not surprised such a large percentage of members left. If a government regulates a union impotent then there is nothing that a workers collective can do for the individual, so why waste the money on union dues because the coming lost wages and benefits, every cent is going to be needed for food!
Sorry state for Wisconsin middle class, the wealthy strike another blow for workers rights.
brice


You can say sorry, how about you show me proof the middle class is worse off now. WI is better off now, show me proof otherwise or admit this was a good thing.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by brice
 


Respectfully, I disagree. The improvement to WI economy is telling, as is the number of people who opted out of the union. Why should someone be FORCED without any say to be a part of a union?

Unions time has come and gone, but there is still a need for them. They are dinosaurs that must evolve. Rather than being funded by the workers and only for the workers unions should evolve into a 3rd part entity paid for by both. This will help remove the Us and Them mentality we have and encourage fairness, rather than a take all we can mentality.


Thank you for reading my post Occams, and I appreciate your rebuttal, star for you! Though I do not have any info on anybody opting out of unions (maybe you can provide?), nobody is ever forced to join a union.


I'm not a fan of the source, but here you are.
www.breitbart.com...

Basically all public employees were forced to join a Union, they had no say. The WI governor allowed them to have a say. This KILLS Democrats. Every taxpayer in WI was basically forced to fund Democrats through the forced union membership. Walker has given them the option, they can stay or leave, their choice. Democrats and Unions do not want them to have a choice.

This desertion by their members represents a massive vote of no confidence in unions like the America Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union and the American Federation of Teachers. AFSCME in Wisconsin lost 34,000 of its 62,000 members last year alone.

cnsnews.com...
Since they were given a choice 54% left the union. How is a choice, how is freedom, a bad thing?



Thank you for the information and Breitbart. I am not surprised such a large percentage of members left. If a government regulates a union impotent then there is nothing that a workers collective can do for the individual, so why waste the money on union dues because the coming lost wages and benefits, every cent is going to be needed for food!
Sorry state for Wisconsin middle class, the wealthy strike another blow for workers rights.
brice


You can say sorry, how about you show me proof the middle class is worse off now. WI is better off now, show me proof otherwise or admit this was a good thing.


Thank you for the post, I appreciate your participation. Check the graph I posted on 1st page 13 posts down from the top. The improved economy in Wisconsin has nothing to do with the decert. of unions, it's way to recent to impact the economy for good or for bad. Right wing propaganda.
By the way Occams, why the hate on for unions? I am not a union member but support them. I prefer to be the boss. Unions came about to protect the lowly worker, the one that puts 8 hours of honest labor in a day and only wants a fair days wages. If you refer to the other graph, how is it fair that some manager, ceo make 475 times the wage of a worker? Look at the graph , then look at other places in the world, the disparity in the U.S. is out of control. Unions help balance the prosperity, you know slavery was outlawed a long time ago in the U.S.
I hope things get better in Wisconsin, pendulum swings one way then the other.
brice



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 02:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by brice
 


Respectfully, I disagree. The improvement to WI economy is telling, as is the number of people who opted out of the union. Why should someone be FORCED without any say to be a part of a union?

Unions time has come and gone, but there is still a need for them. They are dinosaurs that must evolve. Rather than being funded by the workers and only for the workers unions should evolve into a 3rd part entity paid for by both. This will help remove the Us and Them mentality we have and encourage fairness, rather than a take all we can mentality.


Thank you for reading my post Occams, and I appreciate your rebuttal, star for you! Though I do not have any info on anybody opting out of unions (maybe you can provide?), nobody is ever forced to join a union.


I'm not a fan of the source, but here you are.
www.breitbart.com...

Basically all public employees were forced to join a Union, they had no say. The WI governor allowed them to have a say. This KILLS Democrats. Every taxpayer in WI was basically forced to fund Democrats through the forced union membership. Walker has given them the option, they can stay or leave, their choice. Democrats and Unions do not want them to have a choice.

This desertion by their members represents a massive vote of no confidence in unions like the America Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union and the American Federation of Teachers. AFSCME in Wisconsin lost 34,000 of its 62,000 members last year alone.

cnsnews.com...
Since they were given a choice 54% left the union. How is a choice, how is freedom, a bad thing?



Thank you for the information and Breitbart. I am not surprised such a large percentage of members left. If a government regulates a union impotent then there is nothing that a workers collective can do for the individual, so why waste the money on union dues because the coming lost wages and benefits, every cent is going to be needed for food!
Sorry state for Wisconsin middle class, the wealthy strike another blow for workers rights.
brice


You can say sorry, how about you show me proof the middle class is worse off now. WI is better off now, show me proof otherwise or admit this was a good thing.


Thank you for the post, I appreciate your participation. Check the graph I posted on 1st page 13 posts down from the top. The improved economy in Wisconsin has nothing to do with the decert. of unions, it's way to recent to impact the economy for good or for bad. Right wing propaganda.
By the way Occams, why the hate on for unions? I am not a union member but support them. I prefer to be the boss. Unions came about to protect the lowly worker, the one that puts 8 hours of honest labor in a day and only wants a fair days wages. If you refer to the other graph, how is it fair that some manager, ceo make 475 times the wage of a worker? Look at the graph , then look at other places in the world, the disparity in the U.S. is out of control. Unions help balance the prosperity, you know slavery was outlawed a long time ago in the U.S.
I hope things get better in Wisconsin, pendulum swings one way then the other.
brice


Unions foster an Us vs. Them mentality. They are not out for what is fair, or right, they are out to screw someone else as much as they possibly can. Unions were needed, their time has come and gone. What we need today is a 3rd party neutral entity where BOTH sides buy in and grievances can be aired out and decided based on fairness and cooperation.

Here is a question. Who should be rewarded, the employee who spends hours preparing, comes into work and does a fantastic job and excels, or the employee who comes in sits on their ass and does as little work as possible, but has been there 30 years?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Thank you for the post, I appreciate your participation. Check the graph I posted on 1st page 13 posts down from the top. The improved economy in Wisconsin has nothing to do with the decert. of unions, it's way to recent to impact the economy for good or for bad. Right wing propaganda.
By the way Occams, why the hate on for unions? I am not a union member but support them. I prefer to be the boss. Unions came about to protect the lowly worker, the one that puts 8 hours of honest labor in a day and only wants a fair days wages. If you refer to the other graph, how is it fair that some manager, ceo make 475 times the wage of a worker? Look at the graph , then look at other places in the world, the disparity in the U.S. is out of control. Unions help balance the prosperity, you know slavery was outlawed a long time ago in the U.S.
I hope things get better in Wisconsin, pendulum swings one way then the other.
brice


Unions foster an Us vs. Them mentality. They are not out for what is fair, or right, they are out to screw someone else as much as they possibly can. Unions were needed, their time has come and gone. What we need today is a 3rd party neutral entity where BOTH sides buy in and grievances can be aired out and decided based on fairness and cooperation.

Here is a question. Who should be rewarded, the employee who spends hours preparing, comes into work and does a fantastic job and excels, or the employee who comes in sits on their ass and does as little work as possible, but has been there 30 years?

Thanks for the reply but you did not answer my Question. Why do you have such a hate on for unions?
If unions are obsolete, then by your own definition bringing in a third neutral party is exactly what happens now, they are called mediators and are brought in when both sides can not come to an agreement. Without unions there would be no need for a third party cause the employee does what they are told or gets fired. Unions are not out to screw their employers, same as them, they fight for the best deal possible. When times are tough the unions are always first to take wage and benefit roll backs CEO's never do....think about that.
After an employee busts their butt off for 30 years for a company hopefully they have enough seniority to hold a job that allows them a bit of a break, at least they are not going to get fired and replaced by the owners 17 y.o. nephew. Loyalty should be rewarded! Again if companies treated their employees fairly there would be no need for minimum wage laws, overtime laws and safety standards.Unions allow there to be a middle class. With out them there would only be rich and poor.
Thank you for listening.
brice



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