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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Although this thread is about the life and teachings of St Issa, Akragon has shown that the text being discussed here is from the travels of a young man, 13 or so, who left his home instead of taking a bride. These texts fit nicely with the teaching of Jesus. Coincidence?edit on 8-6-2012 by windword because: spelling & grammer
I have checked at least four or five sources and they all put Paul's Damascus experience at between 31 and 36 A.D. Could you point me to your source so I can figure out this discrepancy.
Saul/Paul's authentic experience on the Road to Damascus, about 40 some odd years after the crucifixion proves that indeed Jesus was who and what he said he was. I find it interesting that Jesus' activity recommenced there and then at that time.
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I've concluded that Jesus left Jerusalem much earlier than that as a young boy who, being different (blond hair, blue eyes, flatter face like Romans) was unable to fit in with the other children (as an allegory think of the Chrismas song "Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer" ie: bullied, nose often bloodied), and who was handed over by Joseph and Mary to "Magi" from Persia to be trained, taught, and raised, and prepared for re-entry into Jewish society (his cousin John even knew precisely at what time he would return), and that he later, post crucifixion/resurrection-recuscitation, returned to his old haunts while ultaimtely travelling all the way to Kashmir where he dropped his body (entering the abode of light from which he addressed Saul) at about age 70.
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I've concluded that Jesus left Jerusalem much earlier than that as a young boy who, being different (blond hair, blue eyes, flatter face like Romans) was unable to fit in with the other children
 Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover.  When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom.  After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it.  Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends.  When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him.  After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.  Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.  When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
What does this represent?
Adoration of the Magi
by Sandro Botticelli, 1475-76
And I'm not referring here to The Medici family and friends, the connoisseurs of Renaissance art at the time.
And who is the bearded man, up top, beneath the ray of light breaking into the scene through the roof?
Let me tell you who it represents, for clue #3, that's Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee and a member of the Sanhedrin, yet nevertheless a close friend and confident of Jesus, who had friends in high places, including wealthy friends such a Joseph of Arimathea (clue #4). The adoration of the Magi, is his, towards them all, including the "baby Jesus" depicted there, but wait, wasn't it much later that the 12 were gathered..? (clue #5).
It should also be noted that Botticelli painted the painting with the intention of HIDING it, from anyone's sight, for a long time (on fear of severe persecution by the Church if it was discovered and viewed, and by "severe" persecution, we all know what that means). Why would such a gifted artist risk his very LIFE to paint a painting that no one would be able to SEE, rolled up and placed in hiding, for a period of well over at least 100 years, if I'm not mistaken, before it was discovered, and ah "brought to light". Why?
Intrigued yet? And is there more to the story of the Magi than Three Kings on Camels, and if so who ARE they really and where did THEY come from, and why, and what precisely is represented by the star over Bethlehem, if the story of "The Three Wise Men" is taken allegorically, and not quite literally..?
More to follow. The mystery deepens..
The John Gesture or John Sign - what does it mean?
John the Baptist,
by Leonardo da Vinci,
St. John the Baptist is an oil painting on walnut wood by Leonardo da Vinci. Completed from 1513 to 1516, when the High Renaissance was metamorphosing into Mannerism, it is believed to be his last painting. The original size of the work was 69x57 cm. It is now exhibited at the Musée du Louvre in Paris, France.
The piece depicts St. John the Baptist in isolation. St. John is dressed in pelts, has long curly hair, and is smiling in an enigmatic manner which is reminiscent of Leonardo's famous Mona Lisa. He holds a reed cross in his left hand while his right hand points up toward heaven (like St Anne in Leonardo's cartoon The Virgin and Child with St Anne and St John the Baptist). It is believed that the cross and wool skins were added at a later date by another painter.
The pointing gesture of St. John toward the heavens suggests the importance of salvation through baptism that John the Baptist represents. The work is often quoted by later painters, especially those in the late Renaissance and Mannerist schools. The inclusion of a gesture similar to John's would increase the importance of a work with a religious conceit.
The effeminate, androgynous portrayal of St. John where he is usually seen as a gaunt and muscular figure is unusual.
A suggested reason for the darkened background is in reference to the description of St.John in the Bible as 'a light that shineth in the darkness'.
The John Gesture
In 1997, Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince introduced the so-called “John gesture”: a specific pose painted by Leonardo da Vinci. They were at pains to clearly identify the symbolism of the gesture, but with a little help of Hermetic magic… ?
What is the “John gesture”? Picknett & Prince identified that da Vinci in his paintings often depicted certain people as raising their right index finger skywards. This is very pronounced in da Vinci’s painting of John the Baptist, but even in the Last Supper, one figure makes the John gesture.
Other painters seem to have noticed this was one of da Vinci’s trademarks. Raphael depicted Leonardo as Plato in his The School of Athens, where Leonardo/Plato is depicted with the “John gesture”. That this “John gesture” is also present in many of the paintings in the Turin Cathedral, could be a mere coincidence, but we note that the “John gesture” is extremely rare to be found in iconography. So: coincidence? Or more evidence for Picknett & Prince’s theory?
What does the John gesture mean? In short, Picknett & Prince do not know, but do construct a possible scenario. John the Baptist is notorious for his right index finger, with which he identified Jesus as the “Son of God”. For Picknett & Prince, the “John gesture” should be read as a concealed reference to John the Baptist, in which the sign says “remember John the Baptist”.
Let us detach for now the “John gesture” from all of its built-up theorizing. What we are left with, is a curiosity in the work of da Vinci, whereby certain paintings show a person who is raising a right index finger. What could it mean? To repeat, the “John gesture” is not solely linked with John the Baptist; a number of people in his paintings show “the finger”, even though for the most parts they are linked with the Baptist. The key question is: what does the finger mean?
They don't have a clue. But I know what it means and signifies, and I am convinced that people like da Vinci and Botticelli knew things that the average Joe did not, but that they nevertheless wanted communicated, yet sereptitiously and by veiled inference, so as not to get them into any trouble with the Church.
And since no one's figured it out and stated it outright, except perhaps in the Vatican archives or something, we have the priviledge of allowing such paintings as John the Baptist and Adoration of the Magi, to speak to us now, today, even in this very thread right here at ATS.
Still more clues to follow, stay tuned..
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I'm not sure I could even pull it all together for you at this time, it was a little piece here, something there, excerpts from the Gospels, an old coin purported to show the face of Jesus, Catholic Church imagery, the Gnostic Gospels, statements by his cousin and forerunner John the Baptist (demonstrating that he was coming from somwhere else), extrapolating..
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Will need to do some work to dig it up and offer some links and references. I'm sorry I don't have anything to offer you at this time to back it up.