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911 and the 'Muslim' Connection

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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I am actually waiting for a certain poster to show up as he posted his in another thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



They "hate us" because we are infidels if we are an Islamic nation they would love us no matter what we have been attack for decades long before 9-11 but then again


I will wait for him lol...




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 



A lot of times when getting in a debate with someone they always pull the 'well Christians didn't attack us on 911' or 'Muslims attacked us on 911' or something very similar. I am going to explain to you folks who may not be up to par with critical thinking skills why muslims attacked us on 911 and it is just a consequence of their nationality and our foreign policy


These recent conflicts involving muslim states have always been part of a larger plan.

Maybe its because these muslim states just happen to be in strategically vital regions...or perhaps, someone wants control over these regions.
edit on 7-6-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Exactly, and what better way to blame Muslims by blaming one of the biggest terrorist attacks that happened on 911 on them. How convenient.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


Yes how convenient and lucky eh?

Terrorists just happen to carry out an attack that gives the oil companies, and the military industrial complex, exactly what they wanted.

Nah, nothing is a coincidence when it comes to world events like this.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Exactly.

Also when NATO bombs a middle eastern country it is conveniently labeled as interference, but when they do it in retaliation it is called terrorism, and then they blame the Muslims...how pathetic and hypocritical.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


Am still interested in a reply to my last . . .

And . . . I assert that

REGARDLESS of our interventionism in Muslim lands . . . the bottom line would be the same. The history of Islam is clear.

The exhortations in the founding documents and countless elaborations or clarifications or interpretations by countless Imam's makes abundantly clear . . .

ABUNDANTLY CLEAR

that

1. Islam has as a major DELIBERATE strategy . . . appeasement and peacable conquest by birth rate etc.

UNTIL SUCH TIME AS

2. they have the political and/or military power to DEMAND conversion or mass beheadings.and enslavements.

3. That's ALWAYS BEEN TRUE regardless of what the nations around them did.

4. The noise that paying the tax and not converting is also acceptable is just that . . . noise. It is a TEMPORARY TOLERATED thing. Their GOAL--stated throughout their literature is CONVERSION OR EXTERMINATION until the only humans alive are Muslims. That's QUITE EMPHATIC in their literature from beginning to end. They have NOT repudiated such values and goals to the least degree.

5. Ruthless globalist interventionism by the USA et al is a convenient flash point excuse. Their goals would have been the same had we been a nation of isolationist Mennonite pascifists.

Again, Walid Shoebat's book

GOD'S WAR ON TERROR makes such things abundantly clear as well as a wealth of other facts. He's far from alone in such scholarly assertions.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 





Am still interested in a reply to my last . . .


The facts still remain that the government knew about 911 prior to it occuring and that OBL perpetrated it because of the reasons I put forth




REGARDLESS of our interventionism in Muslim lands . . . the bottom line would be the same. The history of Islam is clear. The exhortations in the founding documents and countless elaborations or clarifications or interpretations by countless Imam's makes abundantly clear . . . ABUNDANTLY CLEAR


Clearly false, if that is the cause, why didnt the terrorists attack Canada 911 style?




The history of Islam is clear.


You are not aware of any of the histroy, you state biased sources and cherry pick certain things that are suited to your liking




The exhortations in the founding documents


The Quran and True Hadits are the the only religious texts that Islam is bound to. Any other books that someone writes are merely an opinion and do not represent Islam if they deviate from the quran or hadiths.



1. Islam has as a major DELIBERATE strategy . . . appeasement and peacable conquest by birth rate etc.


If it is a deliberate strategy why is it not in the Five pillars of Islam? Did you go around and ask Muslims their deliberate strategies? So some of them don't believe in birth control...is that your problem with them..?




UNTIL SUCH TIME AS 2. they have the political and/or military power to DEMAND conversion or mass beheadings.and enslavements.


False again. Please provide evidence that they demand conversion or mass beheadings and I mean evidence in the Quran and/or Hadith not some crazy idiot who is not representative of Islam. Secondly the source you quote must be in the apporpriate context. For instance if there is a beahding quote in the quran in what context is it? Is it during wartime? peactime? Self defense etc. Please provide the relevant backings for your statements




3. That's ALWAYS BEEN TRUE regardless of what the nations around them did.


False again. Certain fanatics at times take over but this is not the ideology of Islam.




4. The noise that paying the tax and not converting is also acceptable is just that . . . noise. It is a TEMPORARY TOLERATED thing. Their GOAL--stated throughout their literature is CONVERSION OR EXTERMINATION until the only humans alive are Muslims. That's QUITE EMPHATIC in their literature from beginning to end. They have NOT repudiated such values and goals to the least degree.


Conversion through peaceable means does not mean extermination. Has a muslim tried to convert you? Have all the 1.5 billion muslims tried to convert you? Have they tried to exterminate you? Where is your evidence for this?




5. Ruthless globalist interventionism by the USA et al is a convenient flash point excuse. Their goals would have been the same had we been a nation of isolationist Mennonite pascifists.


False again. Then why did USA get attacked and Not Canada? Why did they not attack Brazil? What about Switzerland? They are very neutral and a pacifist nation, how come they did not get attacked?




Again, Walid Shoebat's book GOD'S WAR ON TERROR makes such things abundantly clear as well as a wealth of other facts. He's far from alone in such scholarly assertions.


Some biased nutjob. He is not a source, as I have stated before Quran and Authentic Hadiths are source.

It is merely his OPINION, and you are siding with another hatemonger who has similiar opions as yourself without providing any evidence whatsoever.

Lastly Please state the Five pillars of islam and show me where it states any of those things which you have mentioned above..



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


Talk about bias! Sheesh!

My Muslim roommate of more than a year agrees with Walid Shoebat.

BTW, Walid uses primary Muslim sources for all his significant points.

The glib pretense that the other writings besides the Quaran and Hadiths have absolutely no merit or input on the lives of the average Muslim is nonsense.

Regardless, the Hadiths and Quaran have plenty outrageous stuff in them, alone.


So do a list of other experts on Islam far more experienced IN Islam than virtually any non-Muslim Westerner.

I still contend that OBL was set-up and used by the globalists. Of course it matched his own agenda, as well.

Your notions of what is false in my prior assertions come across to me as exceedingly biased and uninformed.

Cheers.
.

edit on 9/6/2012 by BO XIAN because: addition



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Well then why did not the terrorists attack Canada 911 style..?

Why was USA the target?

Plus I don't know if you are still in contact with your roomy or not but ask him this question and/or show him this thread. I want to hear a muslims view on this situation.
edit on 083030p://6America/ChicagoSat, 09 Jun 2012 20:54:09 -0500 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Exactly, and what better way to blame Muslims by blaming one of the biggest terrorist attacks that happened on 911 on them. How convenient.


Usama bin Laden is NOT on the FBI most wanted list in connection with 911. Why not? According to FBI spokesman, Chief of Investigative Publicity Rex Tomb, “The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” www.thetruthseeker.co.uk... www.fbi.gov... (accessed 20 August 2006)
---------------
The 'FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11'. Vice President Cheney says, 'We've never made the case, or argued the case, that somehow Osama Bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11'
www.twf.org...
--------------
Bin Laden, in a September 28, 2001 interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat, is reported to have said:

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 



My Muslim roommate of more than a year agrees with Walid Shoebat


Ah, that "muslim" roommate of yours again.
It seems like his opinions are your source on all things Islam.

Well, I'd like you to meet my "christian" colleague. He does naughty things that christians shouldn't be doing and he also believes stuff that christians probably don't.

So can I quote him.... and say his opinions represents "christian" beliefs and practise?
Can I make outrageous statements about christianity and say "hey, my christian colleague believes it"?


edit on 10-6-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


Talk about bias! Sheesh!

My Muslim roommate of more than a year agrees with Walid Shoebat.

BTW, Walid uses primary Muslim sources for all his significant points.

The glib pretense that the other writings besides the Quaran and Hadiths have absolutely no merit or input on the lives of the average Muslim is nonsense.

Regardless, the Hadiths and Quaran have plenty outrageous stuff in them, alone.


So do a list of other experts on Islam far more experienced IN Islam than virtually any non-Muslim Westerner.

I still contend that OBL was set-up and used by the globalists. Of course it matched his own agenda, as well.

Your notions of what is false in my prior assertions come across to me as exceedingly biased and uninformed.

Cheers.
.

edit on 9/6/2012 by BO XIAN because: addition



On his website, Shoebat says,




As a member of the PLO I was involved in terror activity, and was imprisoned in Jerusalem for three weeks. In prison, I was recruited to plant a bomb in Bethlehem as a result of which, thank God, no one was injured.


Is there a statute of limitations for terrorism? Surely the security services should question him in case he relapses into his old ways. By my reckoning, this betrayer is capable of anything.

At one time Shoebat was a terrorist, another time he attacks those he conspired with then he was a Muslim and now he is a Christian. When is he going to flip sides again and hurt someone new.

Is Shoebat sane?



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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Usually I strongly disagree with Pro’s threads but I have to say based on his opening post, I agree with what he has to say. I would say that this is a very simplistic answer as to why they attacked America but if somebody asked me to simply explain it, I would explain it as the OP has.

So S&F pro



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Well then why did not the terrorists attack Canada 911 style..?


1. The USA is the leading target of the globalists to bring down to ashes in order to enable an easier setting up OVERTLY of the global government on the world stage.

2. The USA--as you seem to love to rant--as a fairly ruthless domineering, control freaque tool of the globalists has abused and angered many peoples far and wide--to their understandable outrage.

3. The universal law of REAPING WHAT WE SOW is coming home to roost--to mix metaphors.

4. Canada is largely seen as a more or less benign poof of a country most useful for moving to as a comfortable modern safe place to live.




Why was USA the target?


See above



Plus I don't know if you are still in contact with your roomy or not but ask him this question and/or show him this thread. I want to hear a muslims view on this situation.


I called him several months or longer ago. I occasionally email him. He's seriously turned off on bothering with the net and any of his cohorts. He's done far more research into Islam's past facts and true history and is burned out trying to reason with the average Muslim. He refuses to bother any more with such on the net. I think he grudgingly responded to whatever question I was posing to him at the time but didn't really want to get into it even on the phone. He's really burned out on arguing about such things.

If I get around to it, I may bother him again with such questions. If I get a response, I'll post it back here. He will not come on the thread, I'm fairly certain. He REALLY IS burned out about doing anything ont he net about such stuff.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by MI5edtoDeath
 


Evidently you've not even read the dust jacket of his book.

His book is one of the most important and impactful books I've read in my 65 year life and I've probably read many thousands of books.

It is also one of the BEST RESEARCHED, AUTHENTICATED, DOCUMENTED AND THOROUGH books on his topics that I've ever come across.

Actually, of all the books I've read on any topic--it's probably in the 0.0001% of the best researched, most authenticated, best documented and most thorough.

Usually I read such books in days. This one has taken me a month or two. Of course it's 500+ pages but mostly because it's so meaty and thorough and takes pondering along the way.

imho, it would not matter if Shoebat was a drunken lobotomized duplicitous slug. The book can stand on it's own merits exceedingly well.

Thankfully, with so many pages of so many words, Shoebat's personality and psychological health come through QUITE WELL. It is not hard for this psychologist to assert quite firmly that he's definitely sane.

He's still got some of the punchy fiestiness of a terrorist type personality and of the whole Middle Eastern IN-YOUR-FACE communication style--but so what.

He's probably more grounded in reality and more sanely coping with reality than 95% of the Christians I know.

Assaulting Shoebat because one disagrees with his message is a cheap shot and also an ad hominem attack. I thought those were now off limits here.

Oh, right. They're off limits for CHRISTIANS to dish out toward others. They are quite OK for others to dish toward Christians. After all, it's ATS !!!TRADITION!!!

Oh, Right. I forgot. /sarc



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Help yourself.

Let me know when he agrees in his words and actions with a thorough, well documented, thoroughly researched, well articulated book congruent with 100's of quality, accurate sources over 600 or so years of history.
.
.
BTW, I believe Walid Shoebat's GOD'S WAR ON TERROR is smack in the middle of the topic of this thread.

[color=6699FF]He gives abundant background on the mentality of Islam as it relates to using terror as an 'evangelistic tool' from Islam's earliest days to the present.

He does not buy into the party line the government gave explaining 911, either.

In terms of Walid's conversion to Christianity . . . I was fascinated to learn that he was NOT procylitized out of Islam or into Christianity. Even as a teen, he began to notice incongruencies and brazen contradictions in Islam. Over time, HE STUDIED HIMSELF out of Islam and into Christianity.

I came to his book dragging my feet. A Christian brother loaned it to me after jangling me with Biblical interpretations I really had a life-long mind-set AGAINST regarding some END TIMES prophecies.

I realized, after a few weeks, that I needed to get my own copy and read the whole thing. Thankfully, I found a cheaper copy.

I was all set to disprove the assertions Walid was making.

Alas, I had to admit I was WRONG.

Walid documented meticulously and many layers thick and redundantly what he was saying that I'd disagreed with my whole life.

He shredded and blew away as useless dust the 'Anti-Christ's kingdom is a revived Roman empire' meme of Hal Lindsey et al.

He documents extremely thoroughly that the Anti-Christ and the Muslim Mahdi will end up being one and the same personage . . . eventually using terror as a major operational Standard Operating Procedure.

He documents, extremely convincingly, to my chagrin, that MYSTERY BABYLON of Biblical Prophecy is going to end up being Saudia Arabia.

He documents that all the Biblical prophecies about the Jewish Messiah which mention the Messiah conquering a nation in conclusive obliterating revenge--that EVERY ONE OF THOSE NATIONS is a Muslim nation.

Soooo, help yourselves, if you wish to deal with his statements, deal with them on their own merits.

Ad hominem attacks on his character or anything else about his person will ring hollow and be a white flag signaling that you have no merit to your attacks against his assertions.


.
.


edit on 10/6/2012 by BO XIAN because: sentence structure and meaning corrected

edit on 10/6/2012 by BO XIAN because: additions



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 

Nice double standard there.
Looks like you expect us to take your "roommate" seriously, but my "christian" colleague is an invalid source , because you dont agree with him. Of course, its not the first time and it surely wont be the last.


In terms of Walid's conversion to Christianity . . . I was fascinated to learn that he was NOT procylitized out of Islam or into Christianity. Even as a teen, he began to notice incongruencies and brazen contradictions in Islam. Over time, HE STUDIED HIMSELF out of Islam and into Christianity.

SO WHAT?

There are many christians who have "studied" themselves out of Christianity and into Islam?
Are you going to pay any special attention to them? If not then Walid need not be so relevant in any discussion. See, this type of reasoning works both ways....and we know discussions based on personal views tend to go nowhere.

Speaking for myself, I started moving towards Islam AFTER I noticed inconsistencies and theological glitches in christianity. I spent 10 years in christian educational institutions....where I caught on christianity out of my own interest. I spent another 6-7 years as a "christian" believing what most christians believe. I also spent a good portion of my life hating muslims and running anti-muslim websites....and now look at me.

I too can say I "studied myself" into Islam, and left Christianity behind. I'm not highlighting myself as unique or anything, but rather just pointing out that when in it comes to religion, people tend switch camps. The opinions and views of a muslim who becomes christian is no more "special" or important than that of a christian/hindu/buddhist who becomes a muslim.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 




He documents, extremely convincingly, to my chagrin, that MYSTERY BABYLON of Biblical Prophecy is going to end up being Saudia Arabia.


If you are that interested in end times events, it might be a good idea to crack open your bible and read from it, instead of being all starry eyed about some "ex-muslim" who repeats the falsehoods of christian fundamentalists.

Note that
1. The first beast and the beast that the whore rides both have with 7 heads and 10 horns...meaning they are the same.
2. The whore who rides the beast AND Jerusalem are both described as having the blood of the saints and holy men. Both are also described as being adorned in scarlet and gold. Both are known to boast before meeting their end.

The bible makes it clear that it is Jerusalem that is the whore riding the first beast. I've also noticed many christians making the same connection.

Also, note that Jesus himself accuses Jerusalem of spilling the blood of the prophets...something no other place is accused of... not even Sodom or Rome or Saudi Arabia. To cut things short... I'll go with Jesus... you can stick with Walid.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Thanks for your responses and you are entitled to your opinion. When you get a hold of your 'muslim' roommate we at ATS would like to hear his input



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by BO XIAN
 

Looks like you expect us to take your "roommate" seriously, but my "christian" colleague is an invalid source , because you dont agree with him.




I didn't realize my English was so obtuse.

1. My roommate is real.

2. My roommate agrees with a massively meticulously researched book written by a former Palistinian terrorist born and raised in Bethlehem. The point was agreement between the two.

Folks can check out the pro and con reviews on Shoebat's book here:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339375816&sr=1-1


3. There's a 3rd witness that agrees on many major points as well.

Another excellent author, Joel Richardson in THE ISLAMIC ANTICHRIST evidently agrees on many main points as well.

.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339375816&sr=1-2

.

4. There's a 4th witness that agrees on many major points about Islam, as well:

UNVEILING ISLAM--AN INSIDER'S LOOK AT MUSLIM LIFE AND BELIEFS

[color=6699FF]THIS ONE WON THE GOLD MEDALLION BOOK AWARD



An updated and expanded edition of a best-selling and award-winning book! Raised as Sunni Muslims, brothers Ergun and Emir Caner converted from Islam to Christianity as teenagers. Now respected evangelical scholars and theologians, the Caner brothers are able to present an inside view of the Muslim life from a Christian perspective.


I also found that book to be quite thorough though not near as thorough as Shoebat's. And, the focus is different. However, they agree a lot in their descriptions of Islam from within.

.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339375987&sr=1-10

.



BO XIAN:
In terms of Walid's conversion to Christianity . . . I was fascinated to learn that he was NOT procylitized out of Islam or into Christianity. Even as a teen, he began to notice incongruencies and brazen contradictions in Islam. Over time, HE STUDIED HIMSELF out of Islam and into Christianity.




SO WHAT?


Uhhhh I'd have thought that was self-evident. It's one thing to be coerced in some emotionally needy point in one's life into a new philosophy or religion by those in one's social network.

It's quite a different kettle of fish to begin to--
.

[size=+1][color=6699FF]AGAINST ALL FAMILY AND
.
[size=+1][color=6699FF]PRIMARY REFERENCE GROUP PEER PRESSURES
.

set off questioning the unquestionable and entertaining the expressly forbidden under pain of death and ostracism from all those cherished relationships.

If you can't wrap your understanding around that stark difference, I doubt I can help much in terms of enlightenment or increased learning.



See, this type of reasoning works both ways....and we know discussions based on personal views tend to go nowhere.


There's NO "BOTH WAYS" involved here. Talking about apples, bannas, cacti and whale snot as though they are all the same thing just doesn't cut it. You have provided not the LEAST COMPARABLE set of sources on the other side.

And, ALL the books and authors I cite above PRIMARILY DEAL IN HISTORICALLY ACCURATE SOURCES FROM ISLAM ITSELF. Call such personal opinions if you wish. I have just usually found it foolish to be so easily and brazenly displayed to be so terminally wrong.



Speaking for myself, I started moving towards Islam AFTER I noticed inconsistencies and theological glitches in christianity. I spent 10 years in christian educational institutions....where I caught on christianity out of my own interest. I spent another 6-7 years as a "christian" believing what most christians believe. I also spent a good portion of my life hating muslims and running anti-muslim websites....and now look at me.

I too can say I "studied myself" into Islam, and left Christianity behind. I'm not highlighting myself as unique or anything, but rather just pointing out that when in it comes to religion, people tend switch camps. The opinions and views of a muslim who becomes christian is no more "special" or important than that of a christian/hindu/buddhist who becomes a muslim.


I'd say that depends on a lot of factors.

However . . . time will tell if you have invested in a belief system which will bring you eternal life or eternal death.

My own suspicion is that there were emotionally laden and other factors which left you feeling angst or unfulfilled or some such as a Christian so you looked elsewhere. I am skeptical that you investigated Islam sufficiently thoroughly to base your eternal destiny on it.
.
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