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Myth Busters of ATS UNITE! Myth, Conspiracy or Truth?

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posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Conspiracy and Myth on Ats falls under a few very defined categories:

1) Secret Societies. Under this category, we have motive from the following mythological groups: Cabals / False Religions / Freemasonry / Illuminati / Fallen Spirits

2) A further category of hidden mythological beings must come under their own heading: Aliens, Fallen Beings (Malevolent) and Divine Beings (Benevolent) and Dimensional Beings that can be either Malevolent or Benevolent

3) Government Madness and Politics

4) End of the World Scenarios

5) Signs of Destruction

6) Evidence for a Hidden Hand, Metaphysics and Religion / Creationism vs. Evolution / Design vs. Random Chaos with Mysterious and Unexplained Unity

7) Economic Concerns

I would like to use this thread to point out one inescapable fact. What I will outline here will either be a Myth or it will be a Fact. For a myth to be a myth, by definition, it is a false claim with an alternate explanation that is unknown. For a fact to be true, by definition, it must be opposite the idea of a myth and fully known. In the end, the only conspiracy can be that of the believable myth used to divert and divide the mind. When all things are examined, the the only way out of a conspiracy is to see the truth by fact. The myth cannot hold up against truth. It crumbles.

I have copied the list above. Feel free to do the same with your own answers. I will provide my own as a reflecting point. Feel free to confirm or bust my conclusions. My answers will rely on a biblical view.

1) Secret Societies. Under this category, we have motive from the following mythological groups: Cabals / False Religions / Freemasonry / Illuminati / Fallen Spirits

I think that it is safe to say that all secret societies are associations of a private nature between men. Included in all the societies above, we have a connection to the category below of malevolent and benevolent beings. Religion, as well as Pagan practices of Theurgy and Ritual Magic will be an attempt to gain access to beings with higher ambitions, wisdom, knowledge and ability. In the end, we find the best description for this in the Bible. The Bible is a chronicle of our history as applied to this category. As applied to myth, most religions are open and transparent. Although confused about their symbols, most religions are benevolent. Secret societies are secret and do not reveal their actions or beliefs. Those who do not practice religion or believe in higher realms cannot be applied to this category. They are creating their own myths apart from anything found in the Bible. Spirits do not exist. Only man exists and he is the myth to overcome.

2) A further category of hidden mythological beings must come under their own heading: Aliens, Fallen Beings (Malevolent) and Divine Beings (Benevolent) and Dimensional Beings that can be either Malevolent or Benevolent

In the Bible and within our history and ancient cultures, we have page after page and tablet after tablet telling the same story. The story finds it's best description in the Bible. Not only does the Bible tell the story, as confirmed by the Sumarian tablets, it does not whitewash God in any way. God is seen by truth. He gives and he takes. He stands against those who take and stand with those who give. All battles are fought by God as a Benevolent being. For God to be a myth, he must demonstrate himself within all our categories as truth. For religion, the story is clear. For historians, the Bible is the confirmation of what is found with archeology. With the secret societies, their myth crumbles apart from the Bible. It is the core document. For the Atheist, no such myth is true. The do not believe that God has a Word because they do not believe in God in any way, shape or form. If they do, then they belong in the first category of a secret society hiding its beliefs.

3) Government Madness and Politics

It is apparent that the governments of the world are clearly tied to secret societies and the hidden myths they produce. Government is a reflection of counterfeit truth. Diplomacy is deception and compromise. The Bible outlines this by condemning three groups: Moneychangers, Builders (Masons) and False Priests. The coming judgment is either a myth or fact. For it to be fact, it must confirm the truth behind all of our categories with all the ugly facts. As it clearly demonstrates, it has all the elements of fallen beings who influence our leaders in three categories of Moneychangers, Builders (Masons) and False Priests. For the religions, the truth is clear. For the Myth creators and secret societies, the truth is what they say it is. For the Atheist, no such truth can exist. We are merely products of our own myths.

4) End of the World Scenarios

The Bible claims to predict the future. Signs on Earth and in Heaven dictate what God says by confirmation. We experience His Word by revelation and by historical context that is parallel to the Word. Either this is a myth or it is confirmed. For the Religions, the truth is obvious. For the Secret Societies, the truth is hidden from the profane as we are called. The truth behind their myth is hidden by symbols that are urinated all over mankind as a joke. Little Orphan Annie and Daddy Warbucks financing war to create orphans is a good example. For the Atheist, everything, including history, is a myth and random by rational reasoning.

5) Signs of Destruction

The Bible is confirmed. The Secret Societies hide behind the myth the create to shelter us from seeing why we suffer at the hands of thieves. The Atheist is in denial at this point. Earth changes are simply natural and the Bible had a good guess.

6) Evidence for a Hidden Hand, Metaphysics and Religion / Creationism vs. Evolution / Design vs. Random Chaos with Mysterious and Unexplained Unity

The Bible contains all the answers to our questions. There are a load of questions, but why? Who creates the myth and who provides the answers? I think the evidence speaks for itself.

The Bible is Fact. The only myth is that we try to deny it with private associations against God. The General public is caught in the middle until the myth and it's symbols are known. At that point, we merely know them by their fruit. The urine stain of the ones who refer to God as a Dog Star is see in the reflection. God and Dog are mirrors. We simply need to know which one drops the load and which one shows us what it is.

Christ is the way, the truth and the life. We won't see it until we do.

7) Economic Concerns

Moneychangers and their turned tables. Jesus first act when entering the temple was to turn the tables. A financial table is a balance sheet. Where do we fit God into the balance of this equation? Positive or negative?


edit on 6-6-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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The debunkers are out in full force I see.

Be forewarned:

You're not going to convince anybody to change their mind.

Nor will they be able to convince you.


edit on 6-6-2012 by EvilSadamClone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





7) Economic Concerns

Moneychangers and their turned tables. Jesus first act when entering the temple was to turn the tables. A financial table is a balance sheet. Where do we fit God into the balance of this equation? Positive or negative?


Okay, I'll bite. If Jesus was so against the money changers, and so, against Wall Street and the banking industry's usury, supposedly instated by the dreaded Masons, how do you explain this parable of Jesus'?


26 But his master answered, ‘Evil and lazy slave! So you knew that I harvest where I didn’t sow and gather where I didn’t scatter? 27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received my money back with interest! 28 Therefore take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten. 29 For the one who has will be given more, and he will have more than enough. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30 And throw that worthless slave into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’” (Matthew 25:13-30).


Here we have an example of a slave owner that harvests where is didn't sew and gathers where he didn't scatter and chastises his slave for not putting his money in the bank to earn interest! This is stealing in my book and his advice of banking goes against Jewish law! www.tentmaker.org...



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
The debunkers are out in full force I see.

Be forewarned:

You're not going to convince anybody to change their mind.

Nor will they be able to convince you.


edit on 6-6-2012 by EvilSadamClone because: (no reason given)


Truth is on my side. The best reflection we have to define our history and society is the Bible. Truth shines as the fruit it bears. For instance, take a look at Christian music and Secret Society music back to back. One is benevolent and one is malevolent. One celebrates taking and the other celebrates giving. The only fruit worth considering for any part of our history is between the takers and the givers; altruism and objectivis; Aliester Crowley and Jesus. We need only know the truth to see the lie.

Sheep of the Good Shepherd, as stated in the lyrics. Christ gave his life. Our faith is based on what was done on the cross for humanity.



He sees the sun at night. That's light from the darkness. Free agents with big contracts. It's all about the money. Taking is the aim. He rewrites history. He'll go to grave before he becomes a follower. He reveals his confusion. His God is gain and greed, clear as it can be. The lyrics reveal the fruit. Delusion all the way. Life is not what we can do, it's what has been done for us. When we start with truth, all these things are added as well. Seek ye first the kingdom and His righteousness and the rest takes care of itself.






edit on 6-6-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 

Let me understand here, you wish to spark discussion on Conspiracy and Myth on ATS.....does that mean we are going to discuss the known truth of these topics on the one hand, and the Myths about a matter on the other hand? You know what will happen. For those who are into a "belief" they can never ever believe anything else, even if proven and showed to them, they will just label it with one of their many names for what they consider to be evil.

I will wait awhile, then come back for some reading and comment. Good post!



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by windword
 




26 But his master answered, ‘Evil and lazy slave! So you knew that I harvest where I didn’t sow and gather where I didn’t scatter? 27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received my money back with interest! 28 Therefore take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten. 29 For the one who has will be given more, and he will have more than enough. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30 And throw that worthless slave into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’” (Matthew 25:13-30).


In the bible, harvest was a time of reaping what was sown. The root symbol for the harvest was when God comes in judgment. What we sow in repentance becomes the fruit we reap when God arrives in judgment. He either says, "well done good and faithful servant," or he says, "Be gone. I never knew you." The harvest is a time that God calls all souls back again. Who planted us in the garden? Who cared for us as a good Shepherd? Who offers salvation from the garden for eternal life on a new Earth? He will reap what he has sown? Why were we sown? For ourselves only?

The money represents what God gave you when entering the wilderness. We each have gifts and abilities beyond our thoughts. These investments are not made by us. We merely enjoy them while here. We are charged with working in the fields of the vineyard for God. How does God operate? He gives by suffering first. A true investment is not what you take, but what you give. If you smoke, you get cancer. This is a reward that is taken but not earned. It ends in cancer and the debt that was caused. Taking reward always leads to debt. On the other hand, if a person suffers first and works at building their health, they live longer. The reward is gained by the suffering of exercise. The same is true with raising a family. We must suffer the work to gain the reward.

The suffering servant is the one that invests what is given by God. To invest, the suffering is required to gain the reward.

In the Bible, the parables and symbols are both true on the surface and true when we reduce the symbolism to the root meaning.

Who is the evil worker--the one that goes to work each day and suffers for his family or the one who goes to the bar and stays out until all hours? Who is the evil Priest--the one who serves or the one who is served? Who is the evil moneychanger--The one who honors and protects the investment of others so that they gain the reward, or the one that steals the money and transfers the debt to the people they serve? Who is the evil Builder--The one who builds on a solid foundation of truth or the one who builds on a foundation of greed and gain for themselves? One generates reward for others and the other generates reward for themselves.

A gardener must suffer the hoe.


edit on 6-6-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by windword
 




Here we have an example of a slave owner that harvests where is didn't sew and gathers where he didn't scatter and chastises his slave for not putting his money in the bank to earn interest! This is stealing in my book and his advice of banking goes against Jewish law!


Stealing is taking a reward that is not earned. The landowner owns the land. The workers are paid what is agreed. Have you read the parable of the vineyard workers? They each worked differing hours, yet they were paid the same. They agreed to this. They also complained that the landowner did not treat them fairly. Despite this, he owns the land and they agreed. We are not the owners. We are earning our reward from Him. We can deny it, but how?

Did you make your eyes see? Do you make your hair grow? Did you make the sun rise or the earth turn? Do you grow your body? The only thing you do is think and move. That's it. God has done the rest.

It's never about what we have done, but what has been done for us. When we realize the enormity of what God did to raise us as children, we can only humbly thank him for giving us the very consciousness we posses. Without him, we are literally nothing. With him, we are something from nothing. It's all Him and not us. Like the land owner, he is the benefactor and we are the one who benefits from what is given. We are to then make the investment and follow his example by suffering for others. Reward is generated and part of that reward is Gods.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 

Let me understand here, you wish to spark discussion on Conspiracy and Myth on ATS.....does that mean we are going to discuss the known truth of these topics on the one hand, and the Myths about a matter on the other hand? You know what will happen. For those who are into a "belief" they can never ever believe anything else, even if proven and showed to them, they will just label it with one of their many names for what they consider to be evil.

I will wait awhile, then come back for some reading and comment. Good post!


I think I have driven all the Conspiracies to one root truth. Know them by their fruit. The fruit either gives or it takes. If you can use this as a polarity to then see the truth, it reveals itself.

The Bible is right there on the side of positive. It predicts the future, provides the answers, identifies the characters, produces a solution and demonstrates all that is true about good fruit. It also hides nothing that seems unpleasant about itself. It is true to reality. God does not lie. He only clings to the one law: LOVE and the protection of those who do the same.

Give and do not take. Honor and do not destroy. Heal and do not steal. Love and do not hate. Each of these are merely mirrors of giving and taking. The root is what is shown by the fruit it produces. What did Christ give to us? What has Satan taken? Know them by their fruit. All of us reflect one or the other by our choices. God will judge. Christ is our advocate. Satan is the accuser. We are the witness (observer of ourselves). God stand beyond the accused and welcomes us to his side with Christ as the one paying our penalty. In the end, God is a Father who does it all for us.

We can't complain of divine justice. "You must be born again." There's no choice. God takes and he then gives back again. There is an end to it at the final call. We may very well be there, even at the door. I would start knocking.




edit on 6-6-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


That is a completely different parable, with a completely different moral. You totally sidestepped my question about the parable that IS in question.

There is nothing to say that the land on which the master did not sew or scatter is his, but even that is beside the point. The master gave each slave money. When he returned the slave that gave him back the same money was chastised for not "putting the money in the bank to earn interest."

It appears to me that Jesus is endorsing the banking system of Wall Street. Tell me how I'm wrong about this, don't give me run around about different parable about equity and equal pay.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


That is a completely different parable, with a completely different moral. You totally sidestepped my question about the parable that IS in question.

There is nothing to say that the land on which the master did not sew or scatter is his, but even that is beside the point. The master gave each slave money. When he returned the slave that gave him back the same money was chastised for not "putting the money in the bank to earn interest."

It appears to me that Jesus is endorsing the banking system of Wall Street. Tell me how I'm wrong about this, don't give me run around about different parable about equity and equal pay.


Wall Street and the banking industry are designed around the Federal Reserve. They have forced the Carbon to be used as a Petrol Dollar Ponzie Scheme. The Fed receives the cash flow from the Carbon trading around the world. All purchases of petrol must be done in American dollars. By the way, Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons and is the mark of mankind. Aside from this, why do they do this? Follow the money. The banks, government and wallstreet investors in the form of corporations will take loans and grants from the overall fund. They then use this money to purchase cheap goods from China and purchase free oil. They then sell these products back to the American people and the world as cheap goods and services. The original money does not get paid back, but is skillfully transferred to the people as debt. The worst of this comes from the Government. They give money away to banks, corporations and foreign entities as bribes for compliance. The debt still goes to the people.

Is this what you were referring to? The people are comparable to the land owner. The workers are taking what is given and then some. Who gets the debt? God condemned the one who sat on the investment. The moneychangers are not sitting on the investment at all. They are taking reward that is not earned. They create a debt that is then transferred to the people. This is why we are 17 trillion in the hole.

The money is put to good causes at times. We build roads and infrastructure. Off the top, the workers graft off billions for themselves. Reward that is taken causes a debt. Suffering work creates reward for the land owner and the slaves. Both benefit. God was making the point.

Suffering is the point.

Taking reward or simply being neutral is does not produce return on the investment. Thieves do that.

One thief on the cross repented. One blamed Christ. Which one was forgiven?



edit on 6-6-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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OP doesn't want a real discussion, he just wants to spout things out.

A real discussion is point, counterpoint.

Hey everyone I want to talk about the Titanic.

Okay, the Titanic didn't really have a design flaw, it was just met with overwhelming force. Scientific experiments with samples brought up from the ocean floor where the Titanic sank proves that.

Then:

So, Pepperoni Pizza is the best pizza in the world.

Okay, did you know that In 1889, during a visit to Naples, Queen Margherita of Italy was served a pizza resembling the colors of the Italian flag, red (tomato), white (mozzarella) and green (basil). This kind of pizza has been named after the Queen as Pizza Margherita.


Then:

So how about that movie the Poseidon Adventure? Isn't it a great classic or what?

so on and so forth.

I'm sorry, but you really can't have a real discussion going on like that.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


That is a completely different parable, with a completely different moral. You totally sidestepped my question about the parable that IS in question.

There is nothing to say that the land on which the master did not sew or scatter is his, but even that is beside the point. The master gave each slave money. When he returned the slave that gave him back the same money was chastised for not "putting the money in the bank to earn interest."

It appears to me that Jesus is endorsing the banking system of Wall Street. Tell me how I'm wrong about this, don't give me run around about different parable about equity and equal pay.


Wall Street and the banking industry are designed around the Federal Reserve. They have forced the Carbon to be used as a Petrol Dollar Ponzie Scheme. The Fed receives the cash flow from the Carbon trading around the world. All purchases of petrol must be done in American dollars. By the way, Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons and is the mark of mankind. Aside from this, why do they do this? Follow the money. The banks, government and wallstreet investors in the form of corporations will take loans and grants from the overall fund. They then use this money to purchase cheap goods from China and purchase free oil. They then sell these products back to the American people and the world as cheap goods and services. The original money does not get paid back, but is skillfully transferred to the people as debt. The worst of this comes from the Government. They give money away to banks, corporations and foreign entities as bribes for compliance. The debt still goes to the people.

Is this what you were referring to?


Kinda. The global financial systems are indeed complicated. But bankers/money changers were still corrupt back then, as they are today.



The people are comparable to the land owner. The workers are taking what is given and then some. Who gets the debt? God condemned the one who sat on the investment. The moneychangers are not sitting on the investment at all. They are taking reward that is not earned. They create a debt that is then transferred to the people. This is why we are 17 trillion in the hole.


The workers are not the ones creating debt. Money equals that amount of energy needed to achieve a goal. Work is the productivity focused and skilled energy creates.

If a wealthy man wants a wall, he asks the mason, "How much will it cost?" The mason calculates the cost of supplies and estimates the labor and comes up with an amount. An agreement is made, a wall is built and supplies and labor are paid for accordingly. The only conceivable debt is the one incurred by the rich man who desired something he couldn't make on his own. In the meantime, families are fed and a nice wall is sheltering his property.




The money is put to good causes at times. We build roads and infrastructure. Off the top, the workers graft off billions for themselves. Reward that is taken causes a debt. Suffering work creates reward for the land owner and the slaves. Both benefit. God was making the point.


Not the point of the parable. The point seems to be that God likes to make a profit, and interest bearing accounts are one way to do it.

Again, you can't blame the overspending of today's political arenas on the lowly worker. In the parable the workers were slaves, meaning their reward was no more than room and board, maybe clothing.

This parable is where the song, "This Little Light of Mine Comes From." The message, in reality, is about not hiding your talents under a bushel out of fear of rejection from God. But, it is painfully obvious that TPTB have tampered with the scripture and put words into Jesus' mouth to steer the masses into believing that Jesus supports the money handlers, when other scripture points to the fact he didn't.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by windword
 




The workers are not the ones creating debt. Money equals that amount of energy needed to achieve a goal. Work is the productivity focused and skilled energy creates.

If a wealthy man wants a wall, he asks the mason, "How much will it cost?" The mason calculates the cost of supplies and estimates the labor and comes up with an amount. An agreement is made, a wall is built and supplies and labor are paid for accordingly. The only conceivable debt is the one incurred by the rich man who desired something he couldn't make on his own. In the meantime, families are fed and a nice wall is sheltering his property.


Sure. Then the Government steps in and wants to tax the wall. They then tax all walls. In the mean time, the take that money and give it to the Mason to build themselves a wall around my wall. I paid for both walls. The Mason then figures out that he can hire the lawmakers and have them pay him triple for building walls that do not need to be built. The Mason then gives his lawmaker a cut. Eventually, we are littered with walls we didn't need and debt we can't pay. This is the kind of corruption and debt that Jesus was speaking of.

Instead, we should have been investing in clean energy. Technology that gives back is the key to allowing our technology and world to be born again. Instead, Daddy Warbucks needs more money. 90% of the world's wealth is not enough. War is the answer to get more walls built. Daddy Warbucks is the same Mason building the walls for the government. He plays both sides of this fence.






edit on 6-6-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by windword
 




Not the point of the parable. The point seems to be that God likes to make a profit, and interest bearing accounts are one way to do it.

Again, you can't blame the overspending of today's political arenas on the lowly worker. In the parable the workers were slaves, meaning their reward was no more than room and board, maybe clothing.

This parable is where the song, "This Little Light of Mine Comes From." The message, in reality, is about not hiding your talents under a bushel out of fear of rejection from God. But, it is painfully obvious that TPTB have tampered with the scripture and put words into Jesus' mouth to steer the masses into believing that Jesus supports the money handlers, when other scripture points to the fact he didn't.


You are implying that God takes. Instead, he gives and expects us to do the same. Only suffering for reward can create reward. Taking creates debt. The evidence is with God and what the Bible says about giving and taking. We verify by seeing all the debt in the world. A land owner hires servants. A tyrant forces labor after taking freedom and ownership away from the slave. God is not like this.

Is God served by human hands? Is he interested in silver or gold? We can let him answer:

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


A valid rant on the state of affairs in today's political arena. But it has nothing to do with the parable at hand.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





He sees the sun at night. That's light from the darkness. Free agents with big contracts. It's all about the money. Taking is the aim. He rewrites history. He'll go to grave before he becomes a follower. He reveals his confusion. His God is gain and greed, clear as it can be. The lyrics reveal the fruit. Delusion all the way. Life is not what we can do, it's what has been done for us.


I'd definately say he is under the great delusion. It's gotta start sometime, now is as good a time as any. Gangstas are "All about ME". Ofcourse we can see what kind of lifestyle and spirit is evoked from the "All about ME" attitude.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by windword
 




Not the point of the parable. The point seems to be that God likes to make a profit, and interest bearing accounts are one way to do it.

Again, you can't blame the overspending of today's political arenas on the lowly worker. In the parable the workers were slaves, meaning their reward was no more than room and board, maybe clothing.

This parable is where the song, "This Little Light of Mine Comes From." The message, in reality, is about not hiding your talents under a bushel out of fear of rejection from God. But, it is painfully obvious that TPTB have tampered with the scripture and put words into Jesus' mouth to steer the masses into believing that Jesus supports the money handlers, when other scripture points to the fact he didn't.


You are implying that God takes. Instead, he gives and expects us to do the same. Only suffering for reward can create reward. Taking creates debt. The evidence is with God and what the Bible says about giving and taking. We verify by seeing all the debt in the world. A land owner hires servants. A tyrant forces labor after taking freedom and ownership away from the slave. God is not like this.


In this parable the master gives his slaves money to hold for him, until his return. It is expected to be returned, it is not a gift. There is no one taking. The slave in question is afraid, maybe of being duped or robbed, or investing in a failure crop, whatever, so he decided to hide the money until the master's return.

The master gets his money back, but is angry that he didn't get a profit upon his return. He chastises and banishes the slave because he should have "put the money in the bank, so that he would have earned interest." How angry would the master have been should the slave have been robbed on the way to the bank, and had no money to give the master?

This parable isn't about a reward. It isn't even about suffering for a reward. It is about not bringing in a profit for the master!

My point is, this isn't in character with other teachings of Jesus. It is blatantly obvious that this text was inserted by bankers, politicians and popes. It is not God's word. There are other examples, but for this thread, I'll stick with just this one.



Is God served by human hands? Is he interested in silver or gold? We can let him answer:

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”



This has nothing to do with the parable, and are not the words of Jesus. He isn't even talking about Jesus, he's talking about his God. I am not impressed or interested in anything Saul of Tarsus has to say.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by windword
 




This parable isn't about a reward. It isn't even about suffering for a reward. It is about not bringing in a profit for the master!


You are missing the point. It's not about money. The parable is about stewardship. The Talent was equivalent to 15 years of wage. It was the largest denomination. It has dual meaning. It also signifies what God has given us as stewards in the church and world. These include our natural, spiritual and material gifts. We are to give forward and not be lazy. Suffering work is necessary to use what we have. The stewardship is the grace of God poured out on the world. I can invest my time on ATS and possibly turn a sinner toward repentance. This is the work of a believer and follower.

Matthew Henry Commentary

We have three things, in general, in this parable.

I. The trust committed to these servants; Their master delivered to them his goods: having appointed them to work (for Christ keeps no servants to be idle), he left them something to work upon. Note, 1. Christ’s servants have and receive their all from him; for they are of themselves worth nothing, nor have any thing they can call their own but sin. 2. Our receiving from Christ is in order to our working for him. Our privileges are intended to find us with business. The manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 3. Whatever we receive to be made use of for Christ, still the property is vested in him; we are but tenants upon his land, stewards of his manifold grace, 1 Pet. 4:10. Now observe here,

(1.) On what occasion this trust was committed to these servants: The master was travelling into a far country. This is explained, Eph. 4:8. When he ascended on high, he gave gifts to men. Note, [1.] When Christ went to heaven, he was as a man travelling into a far country; that is, he went with a purpose to be away a great while. [2.] When he went, he took care to furnish his church with all things necessary for it during his personal absence. For, and in consideration of, his departure, he committed to his church truths, laws, promises and powers; these were the parakatatheke—the great depositum (as it is called, 1 Tim. 6:20; 2 Tim. 1:14), the good thing that is committed to us; and he sent his Spirit to enable his servants to teach and profess those truths, to press and observe those laws, to improve and apply those promises, and to exercise and employ those powers, ordinary or extraordinary. Thus Christ, at his ascension, left his goods to his church.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I don't know where you get all this hooey about suffering from this parable. And, I don't care what Saul of Tarsus has to say on this matter or any other.

This parable is about courage and ingenuity. It's about making a profit for the master. The slave who put all his money under a rock, was banished to darkness and gnashing of teeth, simply for keeping what his master entrusted to him in tact, but not making a profit.

This is a parable that I have seen Christian televangelists use to get your granny to take her money out from under her mattress, to put to their good use. This parable preaches against conservative values and encourages one to invest in risky ventures, thus enabling Wall Street piranha.

Do you really think that Jesus would advise people to put their money with the money changers, who he despised, knowing full well that in the future his words would be used to fuel money changers that pale in contrast to the ones who's tables he overturned? Do you really think that Jesus would turn his servants away at heaven's gate because they failed to produce a profit of souls?

I don't.

The gift of discernment doesn't mean blindly believing and defending everything that is written in a book that has been used to justify some of the most evil actions this planet has seen. This simple line, stating the slave should have put his money in the bank is the tell sign of tampering, in order to promote an agenda that Jesus would have not wanted associated with his teachings.



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