Ohio runner stops in state final to aid fallen opponent

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Sol23

 

It's his father, and it's the Olympics.

That was a beautiful event, not comparable to the one in the OP. It wasn't a fellow runner sabotaging their own finish and risking disqualification, and it wasn't the pinnacle of a career ending in one courageous finish.

The video you linked was beautiful. Kerri Strug's vault was beautiful. Lightning McQueen and Doc were beautiful. The girl in the OP was naive and immature.

Kerri Strug's Gold Medal Vault on an injured leg. She nailed the landing, and then couldn't even walk!

This video has nothing to do with this. There was no act of one human helping another. Its just something to fill and empty post.

If this young woman was looking for a job; I would hire her in a minute over any self obsessed, win at all costs, competitor. I am an employer of a number of people and what this person demonstrated was what I am looking for to grow my company. Compassion not mean spirited me first attitudes.

The responses to this thread reveals much about the posters personalities. I see a lot of weaklings trying to play the tough guy.

Originally posted by olaru12

If this young woman was looking for a job; I would hire her in a minute over any self obsessed, win at all costs, competitor. I am an employer of a number of people and what this person demonstrated was what I am looking for to grow my company. Compassion not mean spirited me first attitudes.

The responses to this thread reveal much about the posters personalities.

I totally dis agree. Companies are worried about their bottom line and their profit margins. Someone that cares too much about everyones feeling isnt going to be cut throat enough for the corporate world. Companies want the win at all cost person. Not the person that is going to give everyone a discount or a good deal on their product or that is a pushover in a board room because they want to make sure everyone is happy. I hate to say it but thats the truth.

Originally posted by PvtHudson
I know its easy to feel good about this story and prattle on about "sportsmanship", but the truth is she lost. they both lost.What good did it do anyone?

Actually she won the state title, and looked classy doing it.


This isn't directed at any one person.....but.....you're a fool if you think helping your fellow man should be looked down on.

reply to post by Sol23

This video has nothing to do with this. There was no act of one human helping another. Its just something to fill and empty post.

Exactly. She finished it on her own, without help, and that was honorable. Although, her coach did carry her away afterwards, and that made for even more dramatic photos and human interest.

Too many humans depend on someone else helping them. What about the pride in dragging yourself across the finish line? Where is the pride in ruining another person's race?

You either make it, on your own, within the rules, or you don't. This is not compassion, this is CHEATING!

Compare CHEATING with HEROISM, and I'll take the Heroics thank you.

Heroics:

I formed a tripod with my arms out in front. I put all my weight on my arms to take the weight off my legs and hoped for the best. I was almost up and then my legs wouldn't hold. I fell back and rolled over on my back feeling so frustrated and confused. I gave in to hopelessness for the moment and then tried again. Soon I was up and moving onto Alii Drive.

I was vaguely aware of the blinding affect of the bright camera lights in my face, and thankfully if I couldn't see them, maybe they couldn't see me. By now I was a mess. I started to run. The slight turn in the road by the large Banyan tree 200 feet from the finish, was enough to throw me off balance and down I went.

The spectators seemed to be right next to me. I soon felt some arms come around me as I attempted to get up. I heard the voice of Valerie Silk in my head warning that if you receive outside assistance you will be disqualified. I pushed my helpers away and made it appear that their help was unsolicited and that I was trying to honor the rules.

I was within 100 feet now and could see the finish line. I was thrilled by the sight and wanted to cross the line running, showing my respect for the race that had taught me so many things about myself throughout the day. A woman was trying to hand me a lei, I put my hand up slightly to signal no. From the slightest side glance I realized it was my Mom holding out the flowers to me and I felt bad for waving off her sweet gesture. The next moment I was down again and I knew I wouldn't have the strength to get up on my own. The helping hands would surely disqualify me.

My only option was to stay down and crawl. It was a relief to not have to struggle so awkwardly in front of so many in an attempt to right myself. It felt safe and unobtrusive to stay down on all fours and get to that line as fast as I could. It was only 20 feet away.

F ull Article

Here is the video from the article for those who could not view it. Even more amazing was the lack of action taken by the meet committee.. I guess they are suppose to disqualify the runners who do that and in this case ignored it and took no action. Admirable girl and staff.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Xcath? Is that you?

Admirable girl and staff.

You are the ATS expert in rank and file, by the book, letter of the law opinions. You never see gray areas or justifications for breaking rules. Yet you call this "admirable?"

What is admirable about letting your team down, breaking the rules, and risking aggravating an injury?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Xcath? Is that you?

Admirable girl and staff.

You are the ATS expert in rank and file, by the book, letter of the law opinions. You never see gray areas or justifications for breaking rules. Yet you call this "admirable?"

What is admirable about letting your team down, breaking the rules, and risking aggravating an injury?

Because in this case it was the right thing to do.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Going to a cop's house and returning the favor of a tazing might be the "right" thing to do to, but I'm pretty sure you would never approve of such a thing.

I disagree that this was the "right" thing to do. There were plenty of people on staff to assist that girl, and the rules clearly state that you cannot help another runner. Both should have been disqualified. What is to keep an extremely fast teammate from pulling a slower one to a 1, 2 finish? The rules are there for a reason.

There are plenty of places in the world where "right" and "legal" don't jive with one another, and I don't believe you would ever side with the "right" thing over the legal thing. In this case, helping the other runner was illegal, not to mention stupid, dangerous, and useless.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Going to a cop's house and returning the favor of a tazing might be the "right" thing to do to, but I'm pretty sure you would never approve of such a thing.

I disagree that this was the "right" thing to do. There were plenty of people on staff to assist that girl, and the rules clearly state that you cannot help another runner. Both should have been disqualified. What is to keep an extremely fast teammate from pulling a slower one to a 1, 2 finish? The rules are there for a reason.

There are plenty of places in the world where "right" and "legal" don't jive with one another, and I don't believe you would ever side with the "right" thing over the legal thing. In this case, helping the other runner was illegal, not to mention stupid, dangerous, and useless.

They took 14th and 15th place....

I am not always by the book, contrary to how people like to portray me. Like to road block thread where I stated that even though it was legal, it should not have occured.

In this case she did the right thing... It served as a reminder that we are all human and sometimes the rules are just stupid.

The "Right Thing" isnt always the right thing to do. I am not putting her down for or even saying she shouldnt have done it. I am saying that in this context as a runner and competitor myself I would not have done it and had she been DQ'd for it and lost the state title and or her team lost the team title for it she would have been letting a lot of other people down who worked hard for that title. She took a big and completely un necessary risk. If the other girl were injured the trainers would have assisted her. If she wasnt and if they scored her in the position she crossed the line the she got a score she did not earn. There are two sides to ever coin and I am not saying we should put her down for it but this could have just as easily backfired on her.

Ok.. Just realized they took 14th and 15th. So one did let her team down by helping the other and then one got a place she didnt earn and in doing so took that spot from someone that might have worked for it and didnt have someone help them. Its called cheating, try it in the Olympics and see what happens. I know they didnt cheat on purpose but in a way they did and it is still cheating.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
It served as a reminder that we are all human and sometimes the rules are just stupid.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

So by that logic, everyone should be allowed to break laws and have no consequences, just as long as they think they "are just stupid," right?

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by Xcathdra
It served as a reminder that we are all human and sometimes the rules are just stupid.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

So by that logic, everyone should be allowed to break laws and have no consequences, just as long as they think they "are just stupid," right?

Rules.. not laws... there is a difference believe it or not.

For intsance the attention im getting in this thread over my views on sportsmanship is stupid. The attempt to somehow link my profession to this topic is stupid. The attempt to get me to engage in a back and forth on laws and rules and a sports meet is stupid.

I think the girl did the right thing.. You and others dont...

Why try to turn this conversation into something else?

To me, thats just stupid.

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by Xcathdra
It served as a reminder that we are all human and sometimes the rules are just stupid.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

So by that logic, everyone should be allowed to break laws and have no consequences, just as long as they think they "are just stupid," right?

Yep. And I'm the guy here that is all for breaking rules. I do it all the time, but if one is going to break a rule, they need to make sure first of all that it is worth it. Something will be accomplished by it, and it isn't just a useless risk. Secondly, they need to make sure their loyalties are in the right place, and breaking the rule benefits the people that depend on them, and doesn't instead set the people who depend on them up for unintended consequences. Lastly, one needs to decide if the person they are breaking the rule for would really even want the rule broken, or would they be willing to accept their own consequences.

In this case, the decision was stupid on all counts. There was no payoff, the girl still got last place. There was however consequences to the one that helped. She hurt her team, and she set herself up for disqualification. There was risk of injury involved, and the fact that the ruling board didn't take action sets a very bad precedent.

The next time some team needs 1 more point to win the team championship, the 4th place guy can just shove his 3rd place teammate past another runner to take 2nd, and that team can steal a championship, and if they try to disqualify them, the team can say, "that rule is antiquated, and has been ignored by the board before," and then site this case.

Cheating is cheating, no two ways about it, but if you are willing to cheat, and willing to take the consequences, at least make sure the payoff is worthwhile.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I think the difference is that she broke the rules and is being rewarded for it. Not that what she did was so wrong because it wasnt. It was an act of kindness on her part and thats all fine and dandy but she still broke the rules in the sport she chose to compete in. Where else is that rewarded? Thats not sportsmanship.

World English Dictionary
sportsman (ˈspɔːtsmən)

— n , pl -men
1. a man who takes part in sports, esp of the outdoor type
2. a person who exhibits qualities highly regarded in sport, such as fairness, generosity, observance of the rules, and good humour when losing

SOURCE

reply to post by Xcathdra

The attempt to somehow link my profession to this topic is stupid.

Nobody mentioned your profession. I mentioned your opinions in other threads, including cop threads, but that doesn't mean you necessarily had to be a cop yourself.

Rules and Laws are technically different from a legal standpoint, but the morality behind adhering to one or the other is exactly the same. A rule breaker is probably also a law breaker. I routinely drive faster than the speed limit, roll through stop signs, etc. Those are stupid laws. I do not routinely murder people, those are pretty good laws.

The Olympian being helped to the finish line by his father broke a rule, but it was a magical moment, it didn't impact any other team members, and it was worthwhile. A competitor stopping to help someone is stupid, because it negatively impacts their own team, and it doesn't serve any purpose for the person who got helped.

The people trying to help the girl in the Ironman competition were rule breakers, and they could have disqualified her from the competition. It was help she didn't even want, and help she didn't have the energy to be having to push away and refuse. All those "helpers" were just making her finish that much more difficult.

The 10 commandments are rules, not laws, but they are pretty useful and important rules, but also rules I break every now and then. I have coveted a lot of stuff, and even adultered some of it. Is it worse to have broken those rules or the speed limit laws? I can tell you I have no regrets about speeding, but I do have regrets over a few rules I have broken.

Originally posted by TheTardis
..... Where else is that rewarded? Thats not sportsmanship.

really?

Originally posted by TheTardis

World English Dictionary
sportsman (ˈspɔːtsmən)

— n , pl -men
1. a man who takes part in sports, esp of the outdoor type
2. a person who exhibits qualities highly regarded in sport, such as fairness, generosity, observance of the rules, and good humour when losing

SOURCE

Fairness - She stopped and helped another runner who fell less than 20 feet from the finishline. She made sure that runner crossed the finish line first because she was ahead of her before falling.

Generosity - knowing she would be disqualified for helping another player, she opted to take that risk (she was already in last place) to help the player up off the ground and help her with the lat 2 feet to cross the finish line.

Good humor when losing - she knew she lost yet it didnt stop her from seizing 14th place by jumping over a downed player. She lost, she knew it, and she lost graciously by her actions.

Since the rules werent enforced by the officals why arent you guys going after them? Also if the people who decided not to enforce the rule, as is their choice, are they unsportsmanlike as well? Since it was up to the officals to take action or not, and they opted not to, what does that make them?

What does that say about you and the others?

Sometimes there are more important things than winning. I'm not a competitive person, so for me, helping out another person in need is always going to rank highest in my priorities over any kind of competition, but that's just me. If I was in that race, I would have stopped for a hurt kitten, too. LOL

I understand some have a competitive nature and that's fine but maybe for that girl, winning wasn't as important as the well-being of her friend. I love reading stories like this, thanks for sharing.

reply to post by Xcathdra


It isn't Fair, because no one helped all the other runners.

It isn't Generous, because it could have gotten her disqualified, and it could have injured her worse.

It also negatively impacted her own team that was counting on her, and it also put the race officials in the unteneable position of having to decide between rules and bad publicity. They made the WRONG choice when they chose to cater to the crowd.

My posts have gone after the officials as well. They set a poor precedent for future races. How will they enforce the rule differently next time? How will they disqualify someone in another race, when they didn't in this one? The officials should be accountable for their unsportsmanlike conduct as well.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Ya know what.. life is not always fair...

Situations like this make those unfair moments tolerable.