The folly of Christian theory; God's immateriality; Proof of God; discussion

Please stick with one of the three topics listed, no personal attacks welcome.

The problem wih Christian theory is their relentless divine intervention: creation of the universe in '7 days', creation of Adam, the flood, divine retribution (war and murder), Jesus Christ.

This is very misleading.

God is immaterial, the universe is material. For God to intervene he would violate His Nature (eternal/uncreated). God must intervene by not intervening, as elucidated by the Upanishads:

"The Self Knows without knowing, for nothing is separate from it."

God envisions the universe, which is to say He envisions Himself since He is all that is (nothing can be compared alongside infinity), thus His 'vision' does not interfere with creation, in the same way that looking at something does not change its nature. This Vision can be experienced in meditation as the Light within the Mind. That is the only proof of God.

reply to post by Lord Jules


There only appears to be material existence. Nothing actually exists, it only appears to exist for an instant and then disappears then another configuration appears and then is gone and so on and so forth.
You are what sees and knows this vision as ever changing.
You are the changless one.

You are the all seeing, all knowing and everpresent presence that allows existence to appear to exist.
It all appears to you, oh one upon high.

Originally posted by Lord Jules
Please stick with one of the three topics listed, no personal attacks welcome.

The problem wih Christian theory is their relentless divine intervention: creation of the universe in '7 days', creation of Adam, the flood, divine retribution (war and murder), Jesus Christ.

This is very misleading.

God is immaterial, the universe is material. For God to intervene he would violate His Nature (eternal/uncreated). God must intervene by not intervening, as elucidated by the Upanishads:

"The Self Knows without knowing, for nothing is separate from it."

God envisions the universe, which is to say He envisions Himself since He is all that is (nothing can be compared alongside infinity), thus His 'vision' does not interfere with creation, in the same way that looking at something does not change its nature. This Vision can be experienced in meditation as the Light within the Mind. That is the only proof of God.

Do you know yourself's, self, intervening in the light of the creation knowing what is seperate and above the lowest of vision and meditation??
BTW what are your sources or is this just a brain fart?

There are GodS

Some interfere, some don't.

Short answer:
No one knows, no one will ever know.
That's why religion is irrelevant.

(Of course, this is only my PERSONAL take on this, the rest of the universe is free to be guided by faith, if desired.)

reply to post by Lord Jules

It depends on the true nature of the human being in creation, and of God as spirit.

I think that Jesus, due to fateful circumstances and a controversial birth and likely a rather painful childhood, was, as a young man and self realized master (through extensive training and reflection) "re-born" of the spirit such that he came to enjoy, in his true "I am" state of being, an intimate, familial relationship with God (Abba) as the Absolute and the spirit of truth and life. He then entered what might be called a "fated wedge" to realize a divine calling and purpose to perform a Great Work or Magnum Opus on God's behalf (who's will is the will to love), so that mankind, in receiving this same spirit (receiving Christ himself), might also enjoy the true life as intended through reconciliation and atonement (at one ment), a relationship that would otherwise be impossible to establish by subjective experience or by self-striving (by faulty human resources) alone, since God as the Absolute is absolutely holy, perfect, and just, with absolute integrity and wholeness or completeness, and therefore, without any compromise (with human sin and evil) whatsoever.

What we see and recognize in Christ's Great \Work is a high standard of Justice and Mercy without compromise, who's MO is forgiveness from the apex of a universal principal of God's lovingkindness, all the way down, drawing men and women from a lowly, fallen or corrupted nature, up, and uplifting them to be with him where he is in spirit and in truth.

Without Christ, God is inaccessible as the immaterial absolute, so what we really have with Christianity is the notion of God, as the absolute will to love, entering into history on our behalf, so that we would not be orphaned in our separation from God, or God "processed" for our enjoyment and satisfaction, that we might have life to the full even to overflowing, with our good-willed, good-natured humor restored.

And so, while the fundamentalists who blindly accept the doctrine of Jesus Christ as a divine intervention for the purpose of reconciliation and atonement are, in the final analysis, correct, they do not understand the sheer genius of it, and yet because it is delivered unconditionally, and as a type of simplicity on the far side of complexitry, I suppose they don't have to, but I myself cannot take something on faith alone, it needs to make sense and it does.

I would call myself an evolutionary Christian mystic, meaning that we are like a work in progress whereby the end result is a hightened spiritual (and psychological) experience of what it means to be alive and a child of God or a sacred being made in the image of God (imbued with self conscious awareness).

But to begin to fathom it and come to grips with it, in a way that makes sense and which resonates - a person must approach the whole thing with open-mindededness and willingness and without any sort of apriori contemptuous bias prior to investigation. To understand it (Christianity) in the knowledge of personal experience, which is the only kind of real knowledge there is, one must also possess a certain degree of courage and the capacity to recognize the genius of it, which presents a universal principal of truth and justice that is so alien to our stupid human conceptions, that indeed, like C.S. Lewis has pointed out, it has the fingerprints of a divine intelligence all over it.

But to be a Christian believer or knower (gnosis) one need not accept the Creationist account as literal, nor the various aspects of God presented in the OT as entirely representative of God's true nature as a God of love and sympathetic, harmonious compassion towards all people, no matter their state or stature.

It represents a universal principal of the love of God as a process of evolutionary transformation for the spirit of man reunited with God, whereby the lowly and fallen or corrupted, is uplifted, and where the first are made last and the last, first.

It's absolute brilliance and sheer genuis cannot, given an open minded and open-hearted inquiry, be ignored or underestimated. And if it's the least bit significant, which it is, then by extension it is of the utmost significance and importance. It means either nothing, or everything. It's an all or nothing proposition, which is the only possible way it could be given. That it goes to the heart and cuts to the core of our self-willed nature, it can also be offensive to the pride of man and provoke rebellion, which, to me, is a sign as to it's power, to overcome all evil.

What others hate about it (that it cuts to the core) and think of as offensive, is imho, it's greatest defence, whereb y it may be said that the best defence, is a good offence!

Christian "theory" basically states that man's true nature, destiny and purpose, is an exalted state.