Do These Conjoined Twins Share Consciousness?

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posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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For the Hogan twins, this raises the interesting possibility that they may share both sensory experiences and conscious thoughts.



As fantastic as it sounds, there is little doubt in [neurosurgeon Douglas] Cochrane's mind that the girls share some sensory impressions. When they were 2 years old, he performed a study in which Krista's eyes were covered and electrodes were glued to her scalp. While a strobe light flashed in Tatiana's eyes, Krista was emitting a strong electric response from the occipital lobe, which is where images are assembled. The test also worked when the girls switched roles. The results were not published, and some neuroscientists believe that this kind of test, which measures changes in brain activity beneath the skull, is imprecise in determining what region of the brain is at play; but most would agree that any response in the other twin's brain suggests, at a minimum, connectivity.


It would appear that the older the girls get, the more they share consciousness. On was turned away from the TV, but began to laugh when the other saw something funny on the screen. They seem to get up at the same time without needing to tell the other to do simple tasks and when one is hurt they both seem to feel the pain. One of the girls likes ketchup, the other does not. One was eating ketchup, and the other girl tried to wipe off her tongue. I'm amazed by this story.

Shorter Read

Longer Read




posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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The explanation Cochrane proposes is surprisingly straightforward for so unusual an outcome: that visual input comes in through the retinas of one girl, reaches her thalamus, then takes two different courses, like electricity traveling along a wire that splits in two. In the girl who is looking at the strobe or a stuffed animal in her crib, the visual input continues on its usual pathways, one of which ends up in the visual cortex. In the case of the other girl, the visual stimulus would reach her thalamus via the thalamic bridge, and then travel up her own visual neural circuitry, ending up in the sophisticated processing centers of her own visual cortex. Now she has seen it, probably milliseconds after her sister has.


From the longer article.

This seems to explain rather simply how they believe it works with the 'bridge'. Also interesting is that they both refer to themselves as I, and also each individual as I. As in, 'I have two pieces of paper.' When each girl is holding a sheet of paper.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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Fascinating. I read both, the long and the shorter ones. The brain and its workings are life-long interests of mine. I'm somewhat unnerved by the family's circumstances, though, and the thought of making their lives a "reality show" is somehow quite distasteful...
but as the longer article said, they need the money (are receiving welfare now), and the girls would "never have a normal life anyway". A talent scout is courting them? Really?

If only they might become neurologists themselves. With the right upbringing and education, (and of course mutual ability and interest in doing so) they could be world class neurologists and advance neuroscience beyond its current state exponentially. They "rarely venture out of their home", but they're going to kindergarten. Are they being prepared for that? How "far behind" are they developmentally?

I wonder, though, if their seizures, developmental delays, and the poor attention to their health needs on the part of their caregivers (neglecting their eyes, and Tatiana's teeth) spell for them a life (lives) of intellectual poverty, and perhaps a failure to make the most of the extraordinary people/person they are. Brings up some really intense questions. The one little sweetie has high blood pressure, too...
perhaps their health will always be compromised.

One other random thought: For as close as they are to being one individual, and even seeing what the other sees, they can never look each other in the eye unless they use a mirror. But then, we can never look ourselves in the eye anyway.

Exceptionally interesting story.
Thanks for sharing it. S/F
edit on 6-6-2012 by wildtimes because: watched video on longer story....provided more info on them...



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





I'm somewhat unnerved by the family's circumstances, though, and the thought of making their lives a "reality show" is somehow quite distasteful... but as the longer article said, they need the money (are receiving welfare now), and the girls would "never have a normal life anyway". A talent scout is courting them? Really?


I think if done tastefully (hey it could happen) having a reality show wouldn't automatically be bad. I too am rather unnerved by the families circumstances. I hate to be a jerk but if you're living on welfare perhaps use a condom... I can see it happening once but 3 pregnancies is uh, bad.




How "far behind" are they developmentally?


About a year behind developmentally. Not too hard to catch up. Perhaps they do have a chance to become neurologists, though you're right, both would definitely have to be interested.




intellectual poverty, and perhaps a failure to make the most of the extraordinary people/person they are.


I worry about this too. Perhaps if they get a reality show they will be more closely watched and given better opportunity. Hate to sound like a prick but I don't think Mom and Dad are going to be the most nurturing people from a mental standpoint.




One other random thought: For as close as they are to being one individual, and even seeing what the other sees, they can never look each other in the eye unless they use a mirror. But then, we can never look ourselves in the eye anyway.


Perhaps it's me being awake a bit too early for my taste but that last sentence sort of screwed with my mind. Interesting thought. Reminds me of people saying 'you are now breathing manually.'




Exceptionally interesting story. Thanks for sharing it. S/F


Thanks for the great reply.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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What if, when they are older, one decides they like alcohol and the other does not.

Hehehe..... Could be interesting!



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


I added a couple more thoughts above....
after watching the video. They show the mom covering one girl's eyes, and showing a toy to the other, and asking the blindfolded one "what is mommy holding?". Yep, they see what each other see; they feel what the other's foot feels being tickled.

I can't help but think about their plight if they grow to maturity. How would that work with hormones, sexuality...wow. I wonder if there are any cases of this type that are boy/girl twins. Yikes.

The family is so cavalier about the whole thing -- weird. But then, I have no room to speak about it. Still, do you wonder (like I do), if they are getting auxiliary coaching on how best to parent them? There was no mention of life expectancy.

And then it brings up the question of....if I found out during the pregnancy, what would I decide to do? It would be a very difficult problem to work through, for me.

One of the issues I have with modern medicine is that in my thinking, there is a fine line between sustaining life/lives that without medical care would not survive.

Ack. Anyway, thanks for opening that door to the ethics and sociological pov. Sketchy to bring up, I know there are lots of people who would be appalled at the idea of allowing nature to take its course without intervention...
tough choices indeed.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by AlexanderTurboLover
 


Yeah, they already have disparate "tastes"....I can't imagine having to endure the flavor of something I don't like to eat without even putting a bite of it in my mouth.
Wow.
And imagine what other "different tastes" they might have? Music? Can they use earbuds without "sharing" the sounds? Talk about compromise. Yikes.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


I would say yes and no Domo1. Yes because they are sharing the same genetic fluids and neuro energies within 1 body so somewhere they will have = behaviors and traits. No because they are developing their own personalities and if they were 1 conscious they would think as 1. Think as 1 meaning like when 1 wants ketchup then they both would everything would be the same for them and as described within the OP their developing diffferent personalities related to their CONSCIOUSNESS. Hopes the best for their development here on EA*RTH.
edit on 6/6/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





They show the mom covering one girl's eyes, and showing a toy to the other, and asking the blindfolded one "what is mommy holding?". Yep, they see what each other see; they feel what the other's foot feels being tickled.


Oh wow that's nuts. I missed that part. So they actually can see.




I can't help but think about their plight if they grow to maturity. How would that work with hormones, sexuality...wow. I wonder if there are any cases of this type that are boy/girl twins. Yikes.


I have no idea how that's supposed to work.




The family is so cavalier about the whole thing -- weird. But then, I have no room to speak about it. Still, do you wonder (like I do), if they are getting auxiliary coaching on how best to parent them? There was no mention of life expectancy.


I really hope the family is getting a ton of help. Again I hate to say it but the parents sound, uh, questionable.




And then it brings up the question of....if I found out during the pregnancy, what would I decide to do? It would be a very difficult problem to work through, for me.


That's a really tough question. I have a problem with abortion at a certain point, and like so many people don't know what that point is. In a case like this I would be more pro abortion. The complications and potential suffering of the children would weigh heavily on my mind.




One of the issues I have with modern medicine is that in my thinking, there is a fine line between sustaining life/lives that without medical care would not survive.


There are times when people will go through with a pregnancy and I find it completely morally repugnant. If you are aware in the early stages that the child is going to live for a very short time, and suffer during it I believe it is your responsibility to terminate the pregnancy.

I hadn't even thought of the moral and sociological points. You sort of opened up Pandora's box didn't you?

I'm going to get another cup of coffee and ponder for a moment.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Good points, Ophi...I know you were responding to domo, but you inspired another thought for me: What if despite their own tastes, personalities, they KNOW what the other is thinking at all times?

It says they often move together as though they've made a common decision....without discussing it.
Also, the one torments the other one...trying to force her to eat chicken fingers, for example. I can see them "spontaneously" battling it out without anyone else knowing what their "problem" is. And they wouldn't be obliged to explain it either! Reminiscent of "hearing voices in your head"....but it's not mental illness. It's another voice in your head. You know its thoughts, wishes and intentions without having to be "told" about them.

Difficult parenting job, that!



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


But to me the fact that they DO seem to act as one at times, and share visual and tactile stimulation suggest that they are sharing part of their consciousness. I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around it (ugh
).



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Domo1
 



I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around it (ugh ).

Yeah, me too. Really having trouble. That's why I hope they are at some point able to shed some light on it for us "one-brain" types. The vid was dated last year. They're older now. More articulate.

I wonder if they get regular sessions with a neutral adult...to kind of 'pick their brains' on what it's like to be them/her.

I mean, no secrets, ever? None? You know EVERYTHING I'm thinking? How hard would that be to deal with? Especially if it's a combo of the two. They can want things separately, but they'll always know what the other wants. I never had a sister...I just can't even comprehend having one attached to my head and in my brain.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


This is what I'm wondering too. Also it kind of reminds me of trying to explain the color blue to a blind person. Imagine growing up with someone else in your head, you would think it's normal.

i think it would be hard enough feeling/hearing or seeing sensations that were not technically from your own body, but add another voice in your head... Ahhhhh!

Very glad you popped in here.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by Domo1
 

Glad to be here!!
My husband thinks I'm weird/off for being interested in this stuff. I'm as curious as the next person in terms of the "anomalies"....but I rarely shy away from having a good look, even seeking them out for my own curiosity and exploration.

Funny how we're told "don't stare", but we all kind of want to "stare"... normal, imo. Some call it sick. Whatever. I think there are more people than admit to it that are interested in seeing the "atypical."



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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And yet....I am opposed to them having a "reality" show, on the grounds that it's exploitative! Sheesh.

I want to know about them, yes, but I don't want them to feel uncomfortable, and I don't want to "intrude" ... just... learn about them. I'm that way with everybody, though.... how people think and behave...is my favorite subject of study. So, exceptional people are really fascinating...
but I don't want to "stare." Well, yes, I do. But I'm not supposed to. Right?



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


@Good points, Ophi...I know you were responding to domo, but you inspired another thought for me: What if despite their own tastes, personalities, they KNOW what the other is thinking at all times?

I think this is where the physical relation between the neuro transmitters and other body fluid shares effects them even with thought as thought it related to physical electrical outputs within the brain between neuro transmitters as well wildtimes. Some data below



reply to post by Domo1
 


Yes there may be some physical attributes related to their behaviors and activities, but I feel the conscious aspect is related to the metaphysical more like how they interpret and feel about various things/situations. For instance 1 may carry more compassion then the other 1 may have more aggression then the other 1 may pray the other may not feel a need. These are the conscious/metaphysical relations I see that would have to be in effect to show evidence of them sharing 1 conscious or soul and I see 2.

NAMASTE*******
edit on 6/6/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Here's a website that discusses conjoined twins...it prohibits c/p from the text, though.
Facts About Multiples
Says conjoined twins are ALWAYS the same gender, although sometimes only one will have genitalia. But that's rather off-topic from the OP, which is regarding shared consciousness.

Ophi, still, how would they know the difference between what is "their" thought, and what is the other's thought? I know about synapses and stuff, and shared fluids, but this is more about the "mind" than the "brain"...
if you are totally aware of how another person feels, thinks, what they want, when they're angry, happy, sad, .... how do you know it's not "YOU" thinking it? Talk about empathy! Ketchup is one thing...a tiny thing....but imagine when it comes to bigger issues...like...boys...jobs...friends...

Gha



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


That's what's really interesting to me, they're not entirely sure how much is actually being shared. Could be a lot, could be a little from what I read. Thanks for the link. I was just going to try to dig up some more info.



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Ophi, still, how would they know the difference between what is "their" thought, and what is the other's thought?

wildtimes, the thing is they as a pair should be able to tell within themselves. I think your saying how would they be able to sense who is incontrol of the body and thoughts as well. I think a observation/evaluation with the proper observers would bring forrth the data you ask. The eval. would include questions asked to both of the children maybe in a written fashion preventing their ears sensory intakes from interfering with the eval. the 2 would then respond on laptop/ ipad /or in writting which may also help eval. as the questions are sent to each. The timing of the questions sent and the lay out may help to better observe, like same questions asked but not in same patterns @ first and then do a same questions @ same times observation afterwards combine the data and there the proof may exist of if they are sharing the same thoughts or using their own minds. SO q1 on the same Q eval would be do you like cats to them both @ the same time and carry on from that point...

I am not saying I am 100% accurate or correct, but this is what I feel would help to verify if infact these are 2 consciousness within 1 combined vessel or 1 conscious with 2 bodies (like hive minds)
edit on 6/6/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 

I'd love to be the one doing the 'testing' on this.
Written, you say? They see through each other's eyes...so that wouldn't work. Gosh, it really is fascinating. I hope they do get the chance to express themselves...I suspect it's somewhere in the grey area of the continuum...
You ------------------------------We -------------------------Me

Maybe with electrodes? I don't know. I wonder how they did in kindergarten? Is one a quicker study than the other? Do they give the same answers on quizzes? Both know the alphabet and numbers? Or is one ahead of the other....


I'm sooooo nosy!!



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