My first thread :)

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posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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Hello, So this would be my very first Thread here on ATS , and i would like to present to you a subject that everyone should understand , and it is something that i was studying in school not so long ago , "criminal Justice "

With that said , i would like to show you a quick understanding on how our system really works

its simple and to the point , I touched on this topic on another thread , and i thought maybe i could create a thread and enlighten some folks
, so don't beat me up to much


if i have found the wrong forum , please Mod's feel free to move it

so now then ,! oh one more thing , never mind my spelling and grammar



Right ! so lets get to it ! "the Wedding cake model " of the justice system
, it looks good and can be very tasty ...... if you have money of course ...



so here is how it works !


looking not so tasty now eh ? no worries , i had the same thought after i figured out what it was all about , so to make this a quick read , ill fill in the holes with some external explanations.


The relation is fairly easy to grasp. Here are some related cases from Kansas that fit into the criteria: The lowest level of the cake is built to handle the bulk of all cases, or the misdemeanors (lesser). Generally misdemeanors will not end up as news even for small towns, but oddities do pop up every now and then in the "A World unto Itself" layer. The range of misdemeanors is extensive from drug possession to trespassing. One thing to note is also a person's professional conduct. What a "reasonable" professional would do in their field. Two years back, an abortion clinic doctor in Kansas preformed several late-term abortions in which all he said were clear and legal to do while they were all risky and near if not past the final date according to the law. A reasonable doctor would have gotten a second opinion on more then 19cases, and so the state's attorney general filed 19 charges of found ill-conduct acts[1].

Samuel Walker a writer for Wadsworth CJR publishing created a model to explain the different elevations of Criminal Justice Courts which was contradictory to the "President's Commission Model" back in 1997. He dubbed it the "Wedding Cake Model" of criminal justice. Just as in a traditional wedding cake (Not like this) there are four layers of the cake. Their names, starting from the top they are: Celebrated Cases, Heavy Duty Felonies, Light Weight Felonies and A World unto Itself, respectively.



Significance:The Wedding Cake Model Theory of Criminal Justice assists in better understanding the operation of the criminal justice system. How these cases fit into the overall justice system leads to a clearer understanding of the mechanics of the judiciary. Moreover, by making distinctions between different types of cases -- particularly between celebrated cases and other types of criminal proceedings -- an observer better understands the differences between the norm and the exceptions in the criminal justice system.



it continues on to explain the other layers of the cake , but ill let you have just a little bite and , then you can continue through this tasty treat of unfairness ! ..

so long story short , people like you and i or i and you , everyday people who work hard and live normal lives , well some times we get into trouble and SHTF and we call upon a lawyer and hope that he does his job right , *COUGH* but 99.9% of the time i would guess they just bargain back and forth with the DA and make or break deals . and you would still be guaranteed to walk away with at least probation( or still get the shaft ) , because lord knows the DA wont settle for letting you go free ! , but if you were at the top layer of that cake and your face was all over every news outlet and you had lots of money you might just be able to get away with murder ! and this is why , because the top layer of the cake get the full workings how the law , meaning the DA does their job, the defense does their job and they fine detail everything , but this cost time and money , and people on the lower section do not get this , hope this makes sens , the second link is a better read , kansascjr.devhub.com...

this link gives a better explanation

siliconebutton.blogspot.com...
and ATS i am glad to be on board , and you betcha ! lightning strikes here !

peace


edit on 6-6-2012 by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-6-2012 by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 03:56 AM
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i am not sure if i am supposed to make an intro post first ? sorry if that is the case , but feel free to ask me any questions about me lol



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 04:04 AM
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Ok I will push a token into this lit slot:

What did this information tell you about life?
Do you want to eat alot of cake and die of heart attack?



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

Criminal Justice eh...Wow! I am fortune enough to perform a JOB when asked that puts me in close proximity to people that I don't think we even have Classification for as far as how and I hate to say the word EVIL but nothing else fits in these cases.

I am brought in as a problem solver and if I am there it means that every other possible negociation has either failed or were being used...the second answer is the most common. So if I am there with my team it is to do one of two things...get them to play ball by either paying them off with a promise that is services are not rendered we will be back.

Or if they will not consider this...we solve the problem. In either case...what these people do to their fellow Human Beings is so appauling that it takes some getting used to but their removal is not something I would say the team does not ENJOY. But what do you say about that?

We have one rule and one rule only...PREPARE FOR THE WORSE....and know that we are the ones they must worry about. It easy for people like this to ush around a group of Families...it is another for them to stand up to us...and if they choose that road...we solve the problem. Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


i say , to hell with the people who , preform the devils bidding everyday ! (devil being the justice system of course ) but you knew that ! maybe you can teach me more about due process ?

peace

Lightning strikes here



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by HamrHeed
Ok I will push a token into this lit slot:

What did this information tell you about life?
Do you want to eat alot of cake and die of heart attack?


it tells , me that our justice system and everything in this life is based on $$$$$$$$ need i say more ?



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


i say , to hell with the people who , preform the devils bidding everyday ! (devil being the justice system of course ) but you knew that ! maybe you can teach me more about due process ?

peace

Lightning strikes here

There is only one Judge in the field...and that is ME. When things go right and I do my job well...everyone goes home. If we have to come back because one party did not hold up their end of a deal or worse...USE US...and we REALLY HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS...DUE PROCESS is their PAYMENT....a payment that becomes...DUE!

And no one ever skips out on what is due!

The Biggest Mistake when they wrote some laws and in particular the issue of the Killing of an American who admitted by his own words that he had become a TRAITOR...and the PLANNER of the Killing of U.S. Citizens or Soldiers...all they had to do with this law was write into it that a person who publicly states they are a TRAITOR...will at that moment have their U.S. Citizenship REVOKED! If they put that into the law...we would not be dealing with all the legal flap.

Let's be HONEST....that SOB would KILL Men, Women and Children by his own hand if they were U.S. Citizens. He would have no problem with pulling a trigger or detonating an IED. So...the argument is BULL S#!%!
Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


"Holds up their end of the deal " I knew it was a bunch of deal making going on
but all the others stuff, one could agree with, what do you think about common law?



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

Common Law....as in if two people live together for 7 years Common Law?

Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


you the judge , you should how about common law ! come on now



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by LightningStrikesHere
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


you the judge , you should how about common law ! come on now


I am the Judge in the FIELD. Actually....there are many definitions to the words...Common Law. If you are talking about The part of English law that is derived from custom and judicial precedent rather than statutes.....or if you talking about certain U.S. State Laws called Common Law that applies to living with a Girlfriend for a period of over 7 to 10 years...that couple is considered after that passage of time...Husband and Wife...and in some U.S. States...this may apply to same sex couples.

There is also a legal term using the words Common Law to describe a precedent that has presented itself as a Modification of Old English Common Law issues.

So...which one are you talking about? Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 




this type of common law , and why does this not apply in the U.S ? and i would like to know how you feel about this , and has anyone ever tried to establish this in your court room ? if possible ?


many thanks

LSH
edit on 8-6-2012 by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

I am sorry...I really can't make out what is going on due to the bad sound track. I did hear the Judge take a recess without declaring a time period and that is when the man standing stated that the Judge had abandoned the court and the charges should be therefore thrown out and end of case...but other than that...you wil have to ll me in more on this.

I work...a lot...and because of my celebrity status...I do not go out much and when I do watch something on the TV...it is usually a Digital Briefing about a possible job or it is myself and the guy's working on the Sound Track of our new Disc. We are perfectionists and this sometimes takes a bit of time.

But if you give me some background on what this was all about...I would be happy to give you an answer.
Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

I am sorry...I really can't make out what is going on due to the bad sound track. I did hear the Judge take a recess without declaring a time period and that is when the man standing stated that the Judge had abandoned the court and the charges should be therefore thrown out and end of case...but other than that...you wil have to ll me in more on this.

I work...a lot...and because of my celebrity status...I do not go out much and when I do watch something on the TV...it is usually a Digital Briefing about a possible job or it is myself and the guy's working on the Sound Track of our new Disc. We are perfectionists and this sometimes takes a bit of time.

But if you give me some background on what this was all about...I would be happy to give you an answer.
Split Infinity





sure , no problem

this is what he posted in the video title

The key is simply know who you are, stay in honour and stand your ground peacefully. I was in "court" because I parked mine or my wife's conveyance on my Sovereign land (i.e.) lawn. No ticket, straight to a court summons issued on a fictitious entity. On and for the record this file was filled with goodies and they waited until the entire case docket was done before they called a name that sounded familiar as in an account that I am administer for. Unfortunately for the court, there were over 20 people there in support of me and most of them were Sovereigns as well...Included in the room were 3 other Peace Officers from WFS and myself, a sworn to the people Peace Officer and duly witnessed and Notarized as such....Hope this is helpful...Case dismissed with cause and prejudice, note the judge bowing before he abandoned the court. This video was recorded in Common Law jurisdiction and authorized by myself as such. Copyright September 1st, 2010 Keith of the Thompson Clan, All



so my take on is , is that he established common law jurisdiction in the court room , and he represented him self as the administrator to his account , much like a judge is the administer to the court , and by not stating his "legal" "law given name " this did not bind him to any contract of the court? i also heard him state he was representing him self as a public official , i believe if you establish common law in a court you have to be tried by a common law judge ? i am just going off of what i gather from the video , so with all due respect please correct me if i am wrong , but judges and police are all public servants correct ? and if this is true then why does it not show in everyday life ?

also is it true that if you are stopped buy a peace officer and you start talking to him , that means you have entered into a verbal contract with him for is serves ? does a court room honor this the same way ? by stating your name ?

thanks in advance , i hope that all made sens

humbly

LSH
edit on 9-6-2012 by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

Well...something as trivial as a ticket in my State of Massachusetts....would first state on the ticket whether you wish to contest it. If it was a Car on Private Land that was a Registered Vehicle....a ticket would never be written. If the vehicle was not registered...the Town or City might Fine You...but a Registered Car on Private Land...NO WAY would a ticket be written.

In the United States and every state or territory as the U.S. has a lot of territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, The U.S. Virgin Islands....etc...and all people who live in Territories are U.S. Citizens.

Anyways...I have NEVER SEEN A JUDGE act the way the one in your video did in such a disrespectful manner.
Even if you received a parking ticket...the back of the ticket allows you to contest it. This is trivial so it would go before a Magistrate...who would be present with about 10 to 20 other people who contest their ticket and the Police Officer for each ticket written must be present...if the Cop is not there...the ticket is voided. If the Cop is there then both of you present your case to the Magistrate relatively informally. The Magistrate renders a verdict...if you still feel the verdict is wrong...you can take it to Court where a Judge will hear the arguments. Now if you have a good driving record without any tickets...it is the Cops word against your and you will usually win. If you have multiple tickets...you will probably loose.

But in the States....a Man or Woman's Land and Home is their Castle and as long as you are not doing something outrageous or dangerous...the Police would never step foot on your property. In my State...although I do not smoke....You can carry up to an ounce of POT and even if caught...it is a $100 Fine. It is not a CRIMINAL OFFENSE...and here is the thing...even if the Police catch you with Pot...they cannot ask for your ID so there is no way for them to write a ticket! So Police do not even bother anymore with POT unless you are DRIVING and are wasted. Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

Well...something as trivial as a ticket in my State of Massachusetts....would first state on the ticket whether you wish to contest it. If it was a Car on Private Land that was a Registered Vehicle....a ticket would never be written. If the vehicle was not registered...the Town or City might Fine You...but a Registered Car on Private Land...NO WAY would a ticket be written.

In the United States and every state or territory as the U.S. has a lot of territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, The U.S. Virgin Islands....etc...and all people who live in Territories are U.S. Citizens.

Anyways...I have NEVER SEEN A JUDGE act the way the one in your video did in such a disrespectful manner.
Even if you received a parking ticket...the back of the ticket allows you to contest it. This is trivial so it would go before a Magistrate...who would be present with about 10 to 20 other people who contest their ticket and the Police Officer for each ticket written must be present...if the Cop is not there...the ticket is voided. If the Cop is there then both of you present your case to the Magistrate relatively informally. The Magistrate renders a verdict...if you still feel the verdict is wrong...you can take it to Court where a Judge will hear the arguments. Now if you have a good driving record without any tickets...it is the Cops word against your and you will usually win. If you have multiple tickets...you will probably loose.

But in the States....a Man or Woman's Land and Home is their Castle and as long as you are not doing something outrageous or dangerous...the Police would never step foot on your property. In my State...although I do not smoke....You can carry up to an ounce of POT and even if caught...it is a $100 Fine. It is not a CRIMINAL OFFENSE...and here is the thing...even if the Police catch you with Pot...they cannot ask for your ID so there is no way for them to write a ticket! So Police do not even bother anymore with POT unless you are DRIVING and are wasted. Split Infinity



this much i understand kind sir , i am more interested in the common law jurisdiction the defendant established in the court room , i believe this is where the " recusal" occurred , if that is the right term , i think that is why the judge was not too happy with the administrator ,because he had no jurisdiction in the court room , what say you ?

have you ever had to deal with anyone trying to establish this in your court room ?

humbly

LSH



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

In a trial of so trivial as a Parking Ticket...the Judge would have the Magistrate Case information in front of Him...if there is precedent....and it is the defendants responsibility to present the precedent that is in favor of the defendant...you would win very quickly. If you are being ticketed for something that is not your car or the Vehicle is registered in anothers name that is not yours...and if you had nothing to do with this...the Judge would chastise the Prosecution as the Prosecution must first state the charges...and in say a case where the Prosecution reads a name that is not yours and they are asked to stand....and no one stands...and say the Cop points you out and you prove you are not this person...case is dismissed. The only way it would not be dismissed is if you were caught speeding or parking the car illegally even if it was not your car...the charges would hold. But in your case...unless there is an ordinance that say's a car parked on the lawn can be ticketed...and the ticket is written after it was parked and the cop did not see you park it...there is no case.

But any form of precedent that has been ruled on before is what the case will stand on. I could hardly believe what I was seeing in your video as something that is this trivial is usually solved very amicably. Even something such as say there is a town bylaw that says that a Garage cannot be built closer than 10 feet to a property line. One day you get a Fine from the Building Dept. that say's your Garage is only 7 feet from the line and it must be moved or torn down...and there are houses up and down the street who have their Garage 7 Feet away...they could be Grandfathered in if 10 years has gone by but if Building Permits were given 9 years ago for let's say 5 Garages that all 5 were built 7 feet away....even if you just built yours with a permit and now they are trying to change the distance as you have just broken ground....what they allowed for 5 other they MUST ALLOW FOR YOU. If they do not they are pointing you out individually and it is a Spot Zoning Issue even though the Law says it must be 10 feet...they cannot prosecute or Fine Just you without the others and since they allowed the others and they are not yet Grandfathered....they cannot give you the permit and take it away when there is a precedent that 5 others were allowed this variance.

The U.S. Has the most complex set of Laws in the World but what one is allowed to do...cannot be denied from another. And a JUDGE would NEVER ACT IN THE WAY I SEE IN THIS VIDEO...He should be removed!
Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

In a trial of so trivial as a Parking Ticket...the Judge would have the Magistrate Case information in front of Him...if there is precedent....and it is the defendants responsibility to present the precedent that is in favor of the defendant...you would win very quickly. If you are being ticketed for something that is not your car or the Vehicle is registered in anothers name that is not yours...and if you had nothing to do with this...the Judge would chastise the Prosecution as the Prosecution must first state the charges...and in say a case where the Prosecution reads a name that is not yours and they are asked to stand....and no one stands...and say the Cop points you out and you prove you are not this person...case is dismissed. The only way it would not be dismissed is if you were caught speeding or parking the car illegally even if it was not your car...the charges would hold. But in your case...unless there is an ordinance that say's a car parked on the lawn can be ticketed...and the ticket is written after it was parked and the cop did not see you park it...there is no case.

But any form of precedent that has been ruled on before is what the case will stand on. I could hardly believe what I was seeing in your video as something that is this trivial is usually solved very amicably. Even something such as say there is a town bylaw that says that a Garage cannot be built closer than 10 feet to a property line. One day you get a Fine from the Building Dept. that say's your Garage is only 7 feet from the line and it must be moved or torn down...and there are houses up and down the street who have their Garage 7 Feet away...they could be Grandfathered in if 10 years has gone by but if Building Permits were given 9 years ago for let's say 5 Garages that all 5 were built 7 feet away....even if you just built yours with a permit and now they are trying to change the distance as you have just broken ground....what they allowed for 5 other they MUST ALLOW FOR YOU. If they do not they are pointing you out individually and it is a Spot Zoning Issue even though the Law says it must be 10 feet...they cannot prosecute or Fine Just you without the others and since they allowed the others and they are not yet Grandfathered....they cannot give you the permit and take it away when there is a precedent that 5 others were allowed this variance.

The U.S. Has the most complex set of Laws in the World but what one is allowed to do...cannot be denied from another. And a JUDGE would NEVER ACT IN THE WAY I SEE IN THIS VIDEO...He should be removed!
Split Infinity




hey split , thank you for your reply , and sorry if it took me some time to get back you , i did not see the reply in my inbox , thank you for breaking down this for me , however with all due respect , i think their was more going on here in the video , then just simple ticket laws , as you will notice they did not discuss the charge at all , it was a matter of establishing common law jurisdiction in the court room or claiming sovereignty , also note again , i believe this was the reason for judge to be upset



note : the subject in the video does the same thing , i am indeed interested in this i am going to study it more , thanks slit , and i want to take a guess at what type a judge you are ?

TRAFFIC ? lol by all means correct me if i am wrong XD

Humbly

LSH
edit on 9-6-2012 by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by LightningStrikesHere
 

I HATE TRAFFIC! LOL! That's why I live in the Country. When I said a was a Judge...I mean in as far as how if I am brought in to a Job in the Field...as I have said before....I am "CIVILIAN" and I hope you understand the quotes....If I am in the field...I am brought in to SOLVE A PROBLEM that cannot be solved by ordinary or standard practice.

I am no longer a Spring Chicken and if it was not for the fact that I work out so hard and long for the purposes of TOURING...there is no way I could keep up with the Twenty Somethings that are my Team. Even though I am in excellent shape...AGE IS A BITCH and I huff and puff as the other guy's fly across terrain.

I swim a Mile three times a week and l also Run but not on the road any more. I am and always have been unusually strong but this does not help me cross long distances over rough land. The Guy's who work with me understand my style of dealing with people who would just as well shoot you and I have only not gone on two jobs as is my right as I am older. But the two times I did...I worried the whole time and was miserable so now I just go when asked and after seeing my replacements and hearing from the Guy's...ARE YOU GOING? They ask because they know I make decisions based on keeping us alive.

They also know that I am not afraid of the people we deal with as I and the Team knows we are the most Dangerous element in the area and words do not effect me and I am very good at striking Fear into the Mind of Men who are used to Killing and Controlling a Village. But I make it clear that we are not Villagers and Men of this nature are COWARDS. I have made one real mistake over the years and this is when I was shot in the Chest at close range several times. I was wearing a High Tech. Ultra-Light Vest that still allowed Ballistic penetration due to the close range but it saved my life...I asked for my rifle lying on my side and using a team mates body part...balanced the weapon and ended the Threat. I have never been that angry before and I have also never been so since but it was a STUPID MISTAKE that could have gotten one of the younger guy's killed and it will never happen again.

What I learned was that communication is key and in certain parts of the World...they hear stories of Americans and wish to test themselves but they have no real training...they believe their GOD will suffice but they have little understanding of the abilities as well as the Fire Power we are able to bring to bear...as well as we are all Professional Volunteers. I and my team are MUCH LARGER in stature than the average people that we encounter in the Third World. We are Larger, Fitter, Much more Muscular as well as we do not work from a perspective of Cruelty or Pettiness. They tend to be fitter than the average Villager mostly because they steal their food as well as Food AID...but I understand what they really are...One Time 18 to 29 year old virgins who live in a Country that does not allow Alcohol, Porn, Fun, the ability to look at a woman's body and unless they have money to get Married...NO SEX...so they Live at a Madrassa where some become part of leadership...some sent to College...some used as Suicide Bombers...some indoctrinated to the point they can only think of How many Virgins they will receive after they Blow themselves as well as a Girls School UP! I feel sorry for these Men but Not the ones who have a Brain and are sent to College and become part of Leadership where they perpetuate the COWARDS CONCEPT of taking advantage of the POOR AND WEAK AND HUNGRY AND SEXUALLY DEPRAVED and convince these 18 year old kids to Blow themselves as well as others up all for a promise that you will NEVER SEE A MEMBER OF THE LEADERSHIP DOING...IE...DYING FOR THE CAUSE! The Leadership is a bunch of COWARDS that use others to achieve...NOTHING! Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


ok i think , i am starting to understand you now
, also you have just opened up a new can of worms
, the religion you did not speak of , is my area of study , you could say that its part of me , yes i am your all american raised on a farm , heck i was even Mormon once lol , anyway to address your concerns with people blowing them self's up or being convinced to do is .. well a bit inaccurate , one must understand that in this "religion" to do such an act is considered the worst possible thing you can do , but at the same time their can be no influence , thats not to say it does not happen , but it has to be a decision that is from the heart , and to except the action is based on their closeness to god , they have no attachment to this life , they have the desire to live in the here after with "GOD" or in heaven , and their understanding is that they will be come a shaheed , their are guidelines , but it NOT is permitted in this religion at all , their are many different sects and many misunderstandings, so one must decipher what is culture and what is religion , the news does not do a good job of dividing the two , also know that 99.9% of the stuff you hear about this "religion" coming from the mouths of people who heard it from people ect ect ect , is all hog wash , not saying your interested ,but if you are then i would urge you to do your research , one more point i want to address , is that women in this "religion" are regarded as pearls , they do indeed have more rights then men , when it comes to marriage and other things , and i tell you all this with honesty ,


so my second guess is that your a MERC ? lol forgive me if i am worng


once more its an honor to speak with you , and thank you for your time


Split

LSH
edit on 10-6-2012 by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)





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