In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
The point of my last post is that it is still a theory. I didn't need a drawn out reply. Evolution is not concrete no matter what technical terms(scientific law) are used to define it.

Your problem is in misunderstanding of the usage of "theory". There is the common usage of theory which is analogous to a hypothesis, and there is the Scientific Theory which is essentially a body of knowledge on a subject. For instance, we know that evolution occurs. Evolutionary Theory predicts and explains evolutionary processes. It is as much a theory as Cell Theory and the Theory of Gravity.

Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
You can continue to argue semantics all day, my point stays the same. Evolution is not concrete. I don't care what scientist say.

So you're not a scientist, and you don't care what scientists say? Are you certain you have the knowledge base to make a good assessment of scientific claims?

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Where is your Proven Science to explain the jump from non living matter to living matter without conceding that there must have been outside direction and design involved?

Not all hypotheses are proven, but we can have evidence to support them. For example, when lipids are added to water, they form liposomes and micelles automatically. This is what our cell membranes are primarily constructed of. Also, we know that amino acids and other organic molecules form naturally. We've observed them in space. The Urey-Miller experiment showed this as well. We have evidence that abiogenesis could occur with naturally forming molecules and structures, and we have models for how it might have happened.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Look at all the Atheists run and hide when it comes down to discussing the actual details of thier favorite fairy tale.

Interesting, live your life based on fiction book and call scientific work fairy tale... what is worst, in absence of anything valid to say to quite a lot of educative material posted here, you are opting to repeat something without any backings in the hope to distract people from real discussion.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
You guys wield only mockery and ridicule. When it comes down to actually discussing Science using our intellects, you all run away and hide from the facts.

We are using intellect. We ask our self if something is true, can it be proven... Opposing to religions where intellect is not welcomed, and everything is predetermined for you.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
As it turns out Science is the greatest enemy of the Atheist.

That is real wishful thinking...

Originally posted by SoulReaper
You have no response for the challange to the fairy tale that i presented here

Just as I said - repeating your self without any backings, not working in real discussion.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Where is your Proven Science to explain the jump from non living matter to living matter without conceding that there must have been outside direction and design involved?

Discussed here more then once, proven in laboratory, There are multiple links to many resources about it.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Why are you so afraid of your supposedly proven theory being put to the test? What happened to being open minded and subjecting all view points to the rigors of observation and logical deductions?

What observation are you talking about? (another repeat)

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Why are you so afraid to educate yourselfs on the actual odds of your assumptions being correct?

I tried, and even as having english as second language, I know its yourselves, not yourselfs. How about you?

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Why are you so afraid of people who live According to Faith?
Why are you so afraid of Christians when our religion is supposedly fading and destined to the footnotes of history?

Afraid? Not any more. Time where religion was capable to execute everyone who does not support their none-sense has past. It was much easier in past just to condemn someone for blashphemy and have him/her burn... From this discussion where you did not bring much we can see why.... and who is afraid.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Why are you incapable of discussing the glaring ineptitudes of the most commonly presented secular theories?

Why do you fall silent?
Where has the courage of the atheists gone?

ineptitudes???

Originally posted by INDOMITABLE
There is enough information on this verse on the internet for you to understand that it is a cultural and translation error than it being purely false. Times change as do meanings.

You're talking about Bible? This is something we can all agree on, and it is not just because of cultural and translation error, but as you said, word of past... We know now much more about life, our surrounding, our place in universe, and strangely enough, we are not center of universe....

Originally posted by HumanCondition
46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

"social mental illness"- really, are our mental hospitals and prisons flled with creationists

It doesn't really matter if someone believes in evolution or not (unless you are specifically working in this field)- it makes zilcho difference to life here and now, so this constant demonisation of people for holding such views is over the top

reply to post by PieKeeper



so you don't want him to bow down to a God, just your chosen "gods" of that particular branch of science and their theory which is the prevailing view amongst those "gods"


Good luck

Originally posted by blueorder
"social mental illness"- really, are our mental hospitals and prisons flled with creationists

It doesn't really matter if someone believes in evolution or not (unless you are specifically working in this field)- it makes zilcho difference to life here and now, so this constant demonisation of people for holding such views is over the top

Couple years back my cousins wife had interesting talk with her fellow employee about St. Nicholas, where girl in her 20's was offended by someone who said that St. Nicholas does not exist and yet she has proof, all the gifts she got from him...

Tell me, is that normal for someone who is 20-some years old?

There is no education/medication that can help that young mind.

Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by PieKeeper

 

so you don't want him to bow down to a God, just your chosen "gods" of that particular branch of science and their theory which is the prevailing view amongst those "gods"


Good luck

Have you resorted to just making up arguments in your head? What on earth are you going on about?

reply to post by SuperFrog



It is truly laughable that you think Living Organisms springing from non living matter has been proven in a lab.

You really don't understand science at all do you?

There has been no observation of a living organism self originating out of non living matter.

You are delusional to think that there has.

Even in the lab tests they are doing their best to provide the "goldilocks" conditions that they think need to be present to conceive Life out of non living matter. Thier efforts represent outside intervention and direction and would not mimic the environment of a completely untouched system being governed by random collisions of chemicals.

Even with thier best efforts at creating the perfect circumstances... there is absolutly no evidence that what they claim to have happened... could ever have happened. It is blind belief in non-scientific speculation.. in short it is faith in the impossible.

I also have Faith in what according to science is impossible, that our Universe was Created out of nothing. I simply have Faith in a God who is able to make the impossible, possible. At least I am honest and open minded.

You run and hide from the argument.

You hide behind "its already proven science" or "its already been discussed"

You are deathly afraid of your nonsense theory being exposed for what it really is.

Humor me and prove that you are not delusional and disingenuous. Provide me with a brief explination for how Science has proven that the Living Organism can spring from non-living matter. You can't and yet act like you could if you wanted to... but you just don't feel the need. Intellectual cowardice is the calling card of arrogent Atheists. You will no doubt resort to insults, mockery and deflection. consider yourself exposed and found wanting.

Perhaps you are just sadly confused upon what it means for something to be a proven scientific fact. I suppose I'll grant you this saving grace.

It is so amusing to me how incapable an Atheist is of acknowledging that God is a viable option. It destroys the security blanket that they cling to via science. Yet science is proving over and over that God is a far more logical conclusion to the discoveries of science then this big bang/evolutionary origin of Life that Atheists insist on.

Soul

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by HumanCondition
46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

"social mental illness"- really, are our mental hospitals and prisons flled with creationists

It doesn't really matter if someone believes in evolution or not (unless you are specifically working in this field)- it makes zilcho difference to life here and now, so this constant demonisation of people for holding such views is over the top

It makes a huge difference when the brainwashed Bible thumpers are deliberately crippling our children's futures by wanting their fairy tale taught in our schools over science. Our kids aren't competing with the kid in the next seat for a job in the mill or factory. They're competing with kids from all over the world--and they will be totally unprepared. You're not doing them any favors; in fact, you're deliberately sabotaging them.

Originally posted by HappyBunny

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by HumanCondition
46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

"social mental illness"- really, are our mental hospitals and prisons flled with creationists

It doesn't really matter if someone believes in evolution or not (unless you are specifically working in this field)- it makes zilcho difference to life here and now, so this constant demonisation of people for holding such views is over the top

It makes a huge difference when the brainwashed Bible thumpers are deliberately crippling our children's futures by wanting their fairy tale taught in our schools over science. Our kids aren't competing with the kid in the next seat for a job in the mill or factory. They're competing with kids from all over the world--and they will be totally unprepared. You're not doing them any favors; in fact, you're deliberately sabotaging them.

What they are doing is creating a mind set for their children where they will not be taken seriously and then they have to suffer thru this again untill they themselves have kids and teach them properly. All the religoius doing is delaying the process.

I wont be worried too much, i already see less and less children get caught up in church and religious
ceremonies and don't associate with other religious.

for advancement of human species,
stubborn dark age rules.


edit: this has nothing to do with spirituality, im all for that. "No to religion and man made gods!"

Originally posted by SoulReaper

It is truly laughable that you think Living Organisms springing from non living matter has been proven in a lab.

Correct, the hypothesis of abiogenesis has yet to be validated.

You really don't understand science at all do you?

I will hold you to this statement...

There has been no observation of a living organism self originating out of non living matter.

Correct.

So far, so... reasonable.

Even in the lab tests they are doing their best to provide the "goldilocks" conditions that they think need to be present to conceive Life out of non living matter. Thier efforts represent outside intervention and direction and would not mimic the environment of a completely untouched system being governed by random collisions of chemicals.

Woah, hold it right there. If scientists can replicate the conditions for life to arise, then that would be an extremely important piece of evidence in support for abiogenesis. If you think that that is somehow comparable to "intelligent/aided design" then you have zero understanding of science.

Even with thier best efforts at creating the perfect circumstances... there is absolutly no evidence that what they claim to have happened... could ever have happened.

Actually, the pieces of the puzzle have been coming together over the last few decades. You better not be trying to pull a "god of the gaps" on us...

It is blind belief in non-scientific speculation..

No it is not. We KNOW life exists. We KNOW the basic building of blocks of life can arise naturally and of their own accord. To state that speculation of the next step is "unscientific" is pretty darn ignorant.

in short it is faith in the impossible.

Oh really? And you know this... how, exactly? Because your pastor told you?

I also have Faith in what according to science is impossible, that our Universe was Created out of nothing.

I thought you "understood" science? If you did, you would know that science does not state that creationism is "impossible", rather it is unscientific as it is untestable, unfalsifiable and runs contrary to the evidence we do have.

I simply have Faith in a God who is able to make the impossible, possible. At least I am honest and open minded.

Wait, so it's "open minded" to dismiss scientific evidence and believe in some ancient book for which there is zero supporting evidence because you happened to be born and raised in a Christian nation, most likely by Christian parents? Amiright?.

You run and hide from the argument.

Creationists have no argument. They have no evidence and compeltely ignore the actual, scientific evidence that contradicts their fairy tale.

You hide behind "its already proven science" or "its already been discussed"

As opposed to creationists who hide behind their hold book and claim "Goddunnit! case closed!".

You are deathly afraid of your nonsense theory being exposed for what it really is.

Are you doing the ol' switcheroo on us with this statement?

Humor me and prove that you are not delusional and disingenuous.

You believe in talking snakes and zombie prophets. People in glass houses and all that.

Provide me with a brief explination for how Science has proven that the Living Organism can spring from non-living matter. You can't and yet act like you could if you wanted to... but you just don't feel the need. Intellectual cowardice is the calling card of arrogent Atheists. You will no doubt resort to insults, mockery and deflection. consider yourself exposed and found wanting.

I feel a "god of the gaps" coming along...

Perhaps you are just sadly confused upon what it means for something to be a proven scientific fact. I suppose I'll grant you this saving grace.

Why do you ignore scientific facts like evolution? Because it contradicts your fairy tale?

It is so amusing to me how incapable an Atheist is of acknowledging that God is a viable option.

Evidence, please. At least make a testable hypothesis for the existence of god.

It destroys the security blanket that they cling to via science.

Says ye who clings to iron age folk tales.

Yet science is proving over and over that God is a far more logical conclusion to the discoveries of science then this big bang/evolutionary origin of Life that Atheists insist on.

Ok, now we're in certifiable bullcrap territory. Why have you resorted to making things up? I thought you "understood" science? Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to accuse others of scientific illiteracy, eh?

reply to post by SoulReaper


SR,

synthetic cells are created for some time now. There are many projects and some of them are already showing great results, but guess who and why does not like this research.

Your faith and science are not the same category, and that is origin of your misunderstanding of science and scientific world.

Here is interesting question for you - should we have steam cell research in USA or not?

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by HumanCondition
46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

Translation-

46% of the US is retarded, and I am more intelligent then those 143 million people.

To the rest of you- Evolution is a theory and has NOT been observed, never, ever, ever. It has never been proven, and it is not science.

Debate me, I challenge you. Any claim, any question, any attack- I accept all.

You must be part of that 143 million people.

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by HappyBunny

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by HumanCondition
46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

"social mental illness"- really, are our mental hospitals and prisons flled with creationists

It doesn't really matter if someone believes in evolution or not (unless you are specifically working in this field)- it makes zilcho difference to life here and now, so this constant demonisation of people for holding such views is over the top

It makes a huge difference when the brainwashed Bible thumpers are deliberately crippling our children's futures by wanting their fairy tale taught in our schools over science. Our kids aren't competing with the kid in the next seat for a job in the mill or factory. They're competing with kids from all over the world--and they will be totally unprepared. You're not doing them any favors; in fact, you're deliberately sabotaging them.

What they are doing is creating a mind set for their children where they will not be taken seriously and then they have to suffer thru this again untill they themselves have kids and teach them properly. All the religoius doing is delaying the process.

I wont be worried too much, i already see less and less children get caught up in church and religious
ceremonies and don't associate with other religious.

for advancement of human species,

stubborn dark age rules.

I really hope you're right, but when 16% or thereabouts of high school science teachers in addition to the parents are also creationists, what chance to the kids have?

edit: this has nothing to do with spirituality, im all for that. "No to religion and man made gods!"

edit on 6/11/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

With you there. You can be spiritual without being religious.

reply to post by SoulReaper


You can't just repeat the same thing over and over and hope it'll become true. If you aren't going to provide evidence of your claims, or show where the science behind evolution is faulty, you have no case. Plain and simple. I'm not saying religion is wrong, I'm defending science and trying to understand why somebody of your belief set would reject it flat out.

reply to post by PieKeeper


You post this video as if this proves abiogenesis is a viable theory.

I'll give you an analogy of what this video proves.

It would be like me claiming that I could leave the earth and fly all the way to the moon and back with no mechanical help... then jumping 2 feet off the Ground and telling you that I have now proven my claim to be viable. After all if I made it the first 2 feet why couldn't I make it the rest of the way?

Do you even have the slightest concept of what is required for even the simplest living organism to survive independantly and sucessfully replicate itself??

I suggest you do something that Atheists are deathly afraid of. EDUCATE yourself on the discoveries of modern Biology.

I'll post you a link and i dare you to read through it with your supposedly "open" mind. I can pretty much gaurentee that you will dismiss the problems with Abiogenesis with an illogical and religious ferver.

Here is the link

Abiogenesis is impossible

And yes that information is compilied by Christians in an effort to actually submit your scientific theory to the rigors of observation and logical deduction. You know what scientists are supposed to do to thier own theories.

In light of recent discoveries in modern biology, the leading antitheist minds are now turning to concepts like panspermia and the like rather then continue to beat the dead horse of abiogenesis.

Try to keep up with current discoveries of modern science and biology and stop spouting old boring fairy tales that have essentially been proven impossible.

Soul

Originally posted by SoulReaper
I'll post you a link and i dare you to read through it with your supposedly "open" mind. I can pretty much gaurentee that you will dismiss the problems with Abiogenesis with an illogical and religious ferver.

Here is the link

Abiogenesis is impossible

And yes that information is compilied by Christians in an effort to actually submit your scientific theory to the rigors of observation and logical deduction. You know what scientists are supposed to do to thier own theories.

SR, did you note that all references in your link are old (mostly 60's and 70's and few newer ones). 13 years is long period in science, don't you think so?

Speaking of education, do you have a problem with English language? I am using this board to study English, and you are not helping at all. (compiled, fever, guarantee... just form paragraph above)

reply to post by john_bmth


Like I said you run and hide from the challange.

You have no ability to provide even a basic explination for how life could spring from non living matter.

Life is complex, even so called "simple" organisms are more complex then anything man has been able to create. So its not suprising that you are incapable of doing what I ask

There is not one Scientific discovery that runs contrary to belief in a Creator God.

NAME one.. I dare you... you can't come up with one example of a scientific discovery that cannot be shown to work hand in hand with a creator. Your all bark with nothing behind it.

I'm still here waiting for you to actually back up even one of your nonsense claims.

God is not on trial here, and cannot be put on trial via Science. Science is not able to dis prove God and never will be able to. After all science is merely discovering what God has created and how it works. The mechanisms present in Creation cannot possible prove that they were not indeed created.

the nonsense of big bang/ abiogenesis/evolutionary rise of humans is on trial via the Scientific method and logical deduction. It has been found untenable, unworkable, and not credible.

Soul

reply to post by SoulReaper

You post this video as if this proves abiogenesis is a viable theory.

No...everyone here keeps on repeating it's a HYPOTHESIS. Evolution on the other hand is a scientific theory that has been proven and is actively applied in modern science.

You have no ability to provide even a basic explination for how life could spring from non living matter.

NO ONE can!!! That's why abiogenesis is still called a HYPOTHESIS!

There is not one Scientific discovery that runs contrary to belief in a Creator God.

Which god? We know for a FACT that the literal interpretation of the Christian Genesis account for example is 100% demonstrably wrong

And of course there's literally hundreds of cases where the bible is demonstrably wrong...the same goes for the Koran.

God is not on trial here, and cannot be put on trial via Science. Science is not able to dis prove God and never will be able to. After all science is merely discovering what God has created and how it works. The mechanisms present in Creation cannot possible prove that they were not indeed created.

And that's your BELIEF...one that has ZERO objective evidence as backup

the nonsense of big bang/ abiogenesis/evolutionary rise of humans is on trial via the Scientific method and logical deduction. It has been found untenable, unworkable, and not credible.

Evolution hasn't been debunked in over 150 years and we are actively applying it in modern medicine. If it were wrong, we wouldn't have many of the meds we have today. So calling it "nonsense" just shows how uneducated you are