In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

LOL! I hear THAT! Split Infinity

I can do that:
Natural numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9...infinity
Even numbers 2,4,6,8,10...infinity
The set of even numbers can only ever be half what the set of all natural numbers is.

a little perspective...

thats 138 000 000 people more or less ...

in ONE country.

how can scientific and religious minds co-exist like that without one side blowing up at the other?

amazing.

As I see it, the only reason anyone ever has a problem with the idea of evolution is because they see it as at odds with creationism. Evolution by itself, as divorced from religion makes a lot of sense. I think it's pretty obvious that we've been here longer than 10,000 years. Like it or not, evolution, to one degree or another, permeates most scientific thinking. Look at all the "superbugs" that have been created by antibiotic overuse, and all the flu viruses that keep mutating - perfect examples of evolution. For my two cents, there's certainly more evidence of that than that we've only existed for 10,000 years and were all created at the same time. Christianity offers some good things, but its time its proponents stopped hanging onto ideas that are ridiculously antiquated.

reply to post by blackcube


I always find it funny that nearly everyone is either a creationist or an evolutionist. Us Interventionists and "Matrixists" are so underrepresented. I could be wrong too, but I generally consider the creationists and evolutionists to be wrong. Can 99.999% of the world be wrong? Yes. What is so hilarious to me is the certainty to which both groups are so proud of - with neither having great proof that they are absolutely right and the other (or any other) is wrong.

At least entertain the notion that you don't have it all figured out, since that's the truth of the matter. Heck, I believe in evolution, but I find it terribly strange that man us the only major species with a definitive missing link" - evolution alone simply doesn't explain how humanity got here. Truly, I believe evolution explains man exactly as well as creationism does. The difference is, creationism has existed for all of mankind's existence, throughout the world. Unfortunately, the interpretation of creation stories has been butchered by the unintelligent for millenia, leaving the general belief nothing but a useless shadow of the real story, which is there, written in probably hundreds of different ways, for those with eyes to see.

Originally posted by Orderamongchaos

An attempt to ridicule abiogenesis, what a great way to debate.

Again, an attempt to ridicule. Are you a child? You certainly post like one.

Yes, yes I do. You believe a magical man made all of uranium?

Jolly good show.

Okay, so God made an element specifically designed to incite radiation among the environment. What a terrible God, I certainly wouldn't worship a God like that.

Uranium has more than just destructive uses.

It was used in photographic chemicals, specifically uranium nitrate, as a toner - in lamp filaments, to improve the appearance of dentures, and in leather and wood industries for stains and dyes.

God made trees, where we get lumber. Will you blame God for making spears, used to kill people and animals, too? Good luck with that.

Indeed it can.

And you just left science. Say hello to Religion and Faith!

The problem is that when you think of mutations, you are picturing an orangutan giving birth to a human or something silly such as that. It doesn't work that way and you should stop pretending it does.

Actually I'm not. I'm thinking of variation in change, such as a primitive beast given birth to another primitive beast with a slightly shorter tail. Then that primitive beast with a slightly shorter tail, gave birth to another primitive beast with an even shorter tail, and so on and so forth, and eventually (after the other mutations), you have the Neanderthal men - which were just regular men with slightly bigger heads (because they aged longer, fits perfectly with the Biblical account).

I'd like to point out, your honor, that these changes have limits.

Dogs will never produce a new species of canine that are the size of houses, or a species of canine that can fly.

I would love to hear why science is all wrong about half-life. Enlighten me, if you will.

Evolutionists assume that the rate of decay has remained constant since the beginning - this is uniformitarianism, that the "past is the key to the present" - you assume that the rate of cosmic bombardment of the atmosphere has always remained constant, and that the rate of decay has remained constant. A plausible assumption, people went along with it for awhile, and some still cling to it.. except..

The Sun is changing the rate of radioactive decay, and breaking the rules of chemistry.

Woops! You have a problem now!

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

"Evolutionist"?! What's that supposed to mean? Afaik, there is no such thing as an "evolutionist"...
I think your brain is overtly "concussionalistic" as a result of practising too much radical "gravitationalism".

Sorry, does that offend you?

Evolutionist - Merriam-Webster

I guess I can sit here and argue "'Creationist'?! What's that supposed to mean?!" but I'd rather stick to the topic.

edit- Ha.. "Creationist" isn't even in there. Yet that word is thrown around much more than Evolutionist. Strange, isn't it?

Oh, and you mixed up evolution and abiogenesis by the way.

So have Evolutionists. Not all of them, but for the majority, they always assume, because one species can have variation, that the entire theory of Evolution is correct - that it proves the Big Bang, that it proves Stellar/Organic/Chemical evolution, etc etc.

reply to post by blackcube


46 + 30 = 76% who believe in God.

That 30 % believe in evolution WITH Gods assistance so they believe in God.

The rest do not believe in God. Just evolution.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
Yeah, and.....why is this a problem?

You seem to want an admission of faith from those who believe in evolution.

I have faith in science. I have faith that evolution is fact.

I'm glad at least one can admit that - the reason it's a "problem", is that faith should not be considered science at all. Yet, it's okay to have faith IN science, but not to dictate your life, but to explain naturalist views of the universe.

Last time I checked that's ok. Besides if God wants to punish me for living a good, kind life simply because of this, he really isn't worthy of worship, because if this is the god that's out there I would rather spend an eternity in hell than spend a moment in his presence.

This is a whole different issue all together, but if I may just give you one analogy - let's say there's this man, he's a really good guy, helps people out all the time, feeds the poor, takes care of orphans.. the usually. A genuinely good person.

Secretly, though, he's a serial killer, and his latest victim was the person closest to you - your mother, your wife, your child, whatever. He stands before the judge, and the judge knows him as a good person. He says, "Hey, no problem man.. I know you did bad, but your good outweighs the bad. I'll let you go free."

How would YOU feel about that verdict? Would you say the judge was a good or bad judge?

God's standards are so high, he's comparing you to Him, and in order for Him to be perfect, and a good judge, he needs to punish those who do wicked. Besides, it's personal - the sins you commit to others are also sins against God himself. Fortunately, there's a way to avoid hell - through forgiveness.

Originally posted by NotTooHappy

LOL! I hear THAT! Split Infinity

I can do that:
Natural numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9...infinity
Even numbers 2,4,6,8,10...infinity
The set of even numbers can only ever be half what the set of all natural numbers is.

Remember...these numbers extend into the Negative as well...such as -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,

As well as Prime Numbers....1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, or -1, -2, -3, -5, -7, -11, -13, -17

Now if you said WHOLE NUMBERS...I would agree with you but half of 5 is 2.5 or 2 and 1/2.

Using Prime Numbers...half of 17 is 8.5.

You have to state whether you are using the example with whole numbers or not. Even in a NEGATIVE PRIME NUMBER...One Half of -3 is -1.5.

Tricky...LOL! Split Infinity

I think it is possible evolutionists and creationists are both right! Evolution is obvious but if we were tinkered with or genetically enhanced as per the Annunaki story or by something we very would call gods (far enhanced) then everyone is right and needs to stop fighting over it. It is obvious we have changed and come a long way in 10k years. We have wiped out all other hominids etc. and our very genetics show tinkering in the lab which is proof of a sort of creation of some kind.
I think we existed but were boosted. Therefore both stories could be in harmony. No need for evolution and creation battles for the well informed.

No wonder the British didn't fight very hard...This reminds me of the inhabitants of the "B" Ship in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

reply to post by WormwoodSquirm

Please supply some proof that we were tinkered with Genetically?
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

We are missing 2 chromosomes for starters. Here is an interesting link I found. I have read many science pieces implying it but dont have time to dig them up. It would take hours.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

You don't understand how science works, do you? There's not much "blind faith" involved.

You don't understand the difference between science and the scientific paradigms, do you?... There's nothing but blind faith in the paradigms. The theory of Evolution is a paradigm of science. It is NOT science.

Jaden

Unreal. I would however like to see this percentage by age, I have a feeling the under 30 crowd would be much lower.

wow, 26 pages of guff. How can smart people (and I reckon there are some very smart people on here) manage to keep this drivel going for soooo long? To the godists, qudos for trying to save the non believers. To those who can see the primitive part of the human condition, there's not much chance of freeing up such hard wired thought patterns.

Evolutionists use decidedly unscientific methods to prove their theory. And by theory i mean the idea that Evolution somehow provides an alternative to the concept of a Creator God. They pretend that if they can show evidence of observing any real biological process that this somehow means that every process proposed by evolutionists is obvious and true. This isn't just bad science, it is ignorance and denial in its finest form.

There are many highly unlikely, unobserved processes that must have happened for the theory to hold up. Processes which CANNOT be duplicated by any scientist in any lab today to cause LIFE to spring up out of non living matter, gases ect.

Do you realize the Faith needed to believe that Life Sprang from non living matter by itself with no direction?

Do you realize the amount of information coded into a single biological cell?

Do you understand the odds of that massive amount of information, self originating, self compiling, and self organizing is so minute that we cannot properly express how low the odds are using any figure that can be comprehended by the human mind?

Much less the complexity of an advanced biological creature such as the human form.

Did you know that many non Christian scientists looking at the design present in nature are actually quite convinced that we were engineered by some Non Earth entity. They simply refuse to call him God, they would rather believe in the power of a Supreme race of non humans, so advanced and beyond us that they Programmed our genetic code and seeded our planet at the Beginning.

Science and God are not at odds with each other. Science as a pursuit into the Truth of how things work is one of mans primary avenues toward discovering his creator. God is a cohesive and viable explanation for how our universe came to be and for where all the complex information originated.

Evolutionists must resort to Aliens whenever they encounter a process which cannot be explained by throwing a bunch of molecules in a puddle and leaving it there for billions of years until it decides on its own to become Useful toward the creation or advancement of life.

There is no obvious nor scientific proof that Evolution can replace the Concept of God as the Alpha source, the origin point for matter, information, and most importantly life. In fact Evolution has NO explanation for an origin source other then to say that it appears that at some point... all that we can see touch and observe seems to have sprung all at once out of nothing. They call it the big bang, I call it creation. The difference is I have a cohesive and viable explanation for why life, matter, and energy sprang out of the nothingness.... Evolutionists have Aliens as a half ass attempt to kick God to the curb... but even with Aliens in the mix.. they still cannot explain where the Aliens came from.

You can have your aliens. I'll gladly keep my belief in a creator God.

Soul

These threads will never have a conclusion as neither side will give an inch as both feel they are right (Iknow who are the "more" right though ).
Oil and water (although if you shake oil and water long and hard enough you get a colloid...just sayin').

Originally posted by SoulReaper


Evolutionists use decidedly unscientific methods to prove their theory. And by theory i mean the idea that Evolution somehow provides an alternative to the concept of a Creator God. They pretend that if they can show evidence of observing any real biological process that this somehow means that every process proposed by evolutionists is obvious and true. This isn't just bad science, it is ignorance and denial in its finest form.

There are many highly unlikely, unobserved processes that must have happened for the theory to hold up. Processes which CANNOT be duplicated by any scientist in any lab today to cause LIFE to spring up out of non living matter, gases ect.

Do you realize the Faith needed to believe that Life Sprang from non living matter by itself with no direction?

Do you realize the amount of information coded into a single biological cell?

Do you understand the odds of that massive amount of information, self originating, self compiling, and self organizing is so minute that we cannot properly express how low the odds are using any figure that can be comprehended by the human mind?

Much less the complexity of an advanced biological creature such as the human form.

Did you know that many non Christian scientists looking at the design present in nature are actually quite convinced that we were engineered by some Non Earth entity. They simply refuse to call him God, they would rather believe in the power of a Supreme race of non humans, so advanced and beyond us that they Programmed our genetic code and seeded our planet at the Beginning.

Science and God are not at odds with each other. Science as a pursuit into the Truth of how things work is one of mans primary avenues toward discovering his creator. God is a cohesive and viable explanation for how our universe came to be and for where all the complex information originated.

Evolutionists must resort to Aliens whenever they encounter a process which cannot be explained by throwing a bunch of molecules in a puddle and leaving it there for billions of years until it decides on its own to become Useful toward the creation or advancement of life.

There is no obvious nor scientific proof that Evolution can replace the Concept of God as the Alpha source, the origin point for matter, information, and most importantly life. In fact Evolution has NO explanation for an origin source other then to say that it appears that at some point... all that we can see touch and observe seems to have sprung all at once out of nothing. They call it the big bang, I call it creation. The difference is I have a cohesive and viable explanation for why life, matter, and energy sprang out of the nothingness.... Evolutionists have Aliens as a half ass attempt to kick God to the curb... but even with Aliens in the mix.. they still cannot explain where the Aliens came from.

You can have your aliens. I'll gladly keep my belief in a creator God.

Soul

I'll go back to my earlier post as yours is another example of it.
Since evolution cannot currently be proven beyond all doubt, in your eyes it is wrong.
Since you are unable to explain it then it must be God. That is what you're saying isn't it?
Illogically illogical and the whole basis of the "belief" in the paranormal.....
"I don't know what it is so it must be that".

reply to post by Pardon?


You cannot take a piece of God and study him in a lab... Science and Humans have their limits.

This does not mean that there is not evidence of God present in the Universe, I happen to see it all around me. In fact the complexity, sheer enormity of information, and precise balance of the physical forces both on a macro and micro level scream of a powerful intelligence at work in their origins.

In no other avenue of life would any logical human being deny this. You don't walk past a house and assume that it used to be a forest a billion years ago but that the trees evolved themselves into 2x4's and nailed themselves together in a useful and intelligent manner all by themselves. If you claimed this... you would be called a moron.

Explain to me how the gigantic Assumptions of Evolutionists are any different. And I am certainly not talking about the obvious biological changes that can and do occur all around us all the time. I'm talking about Non Life becoming life and NON complex molecules smashing into each other in a warm pool becoming Complex and useful biological systems.

Force when not applied intelligently leads to chaos and destruction.
Anything subjected to the environment for long periods of time lends itself most often to decay, disorder, death and equilibrium.... not increasingly complex life forms, order, or useful biological information on the molecular level.

God is a quite logical and cohesive explanation for the source of all that science can discover.

I find the answer of the atheist or evolutionist to be decidedly not logical, cohesive or viable.

Sure you can deny the concept of God... my challenge to you is to provide me with evidence of a MORE cohesive explanation... I've never heard one, but I'm more then excited to hear you fumble your way through an attempt.

Soul