In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by Omniview

 

I am the scientific minded type and hold religion as control for the masses however in the way of evolution is the fact that there has not been found a direct link from us to the monkey or even from monkey to the earliest species of man. We've found remains of early humans but no remains for a being that is somewhere in between monkey and man. I believe in evolution but I dont think we evolved from the ape. I believe we were a seperate species all together different from the ape.

I agree we are a different species to Apes ...

He's some old skeleton's they dug up that has a mixture of ape and human features: A. sediba

Two fossil skeletons of early humans appear to mark a halfway stage between primitive "ape-men" and our direct ancestors. A year of detailed study has revealed that the skeletons are a hodgepodge of anatomical features: some bones look almost human while others are chimpanzee-like.

The two fossils, an adult female and a juvenile male, were discovered in the Malapa cave system near Johannesburg, South Africa, in 2008. Both about 1.2 metres tall, they are unusually complete and well-preserved and date from 1,977,000 years ago.

Other groups have focused on the pelvis, feet and ankles. They all come to the same conclusion: A. sediba is halfway between Australopithecus and Homo. Berger says it's not surprising that the fossil is a confusing mixture, pointing out that that is exactly what we would expect in a transitional fossil.



www.newscientist.com...

Originally posted by Reflection

Originally posted by Tbrooks76
Evolution vs Creation….Dumb debate…

You all do realize it’s 100% speculation. None of us were there, no go good accountable records with details were taken so anything someone choses to believe about it is pure speculation based on what ‘facts’ the want to believe. There is no 100% fact trail to follow, each side of the debate has tons holes in their theories rather they want to admit it or not. An Evolutionist cannot explain or recreate how the first cell got life, a creationist can’t explain how/why God made the universe so huge and light from stars billions of miles away is hitting the earth. When you look at debates on this, Creationist have damm good point that Evolutionist ignore and well Evolutionist have great points Creationist ignore. Debating it stupid because all you do is point the holes in each other theories…

It boils down to is which set of ‘facts’ you want to follow to get the desired outcome your happy with.
Evolution vs Creation is all personal preference.

This is yet another example of trying to make religion a science (holes in the theory) and evolution a religion (100% speculation).

First off there is no such thing as 100% fact trail. Just like there isn't a 100% chance that with the next step u take the atoms on the ground won't separate and you end up falling into a black hole. It's astronomically improbable, but not 100%.

The reason science is different than religion is because science speculates on whats observed. Religion speculates on blind faith.

Personally, I'm "happy" with highly probable outcomes.... Occam's Razor.

Btw, evolutionists job is not to explain how the first cell, or cells, formed. Just how they evolved from that point.

There are a lot of other sciences working on that problem. The merger between physics and biology continues to grow everyday.

You wrote: First off there is no such thing as 100% fact trail
That is what I said!!! Its what make both evolution and creation a belief not a fact.


religion is a belief
evolution is a belief
science is science,

science and just to tool to explain things. Evolution itself is not science, it's a theroy which at its core is a belief.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
This whole idea of God as just another "guy", except infinitely bigger, is so narrow minded that it's as utterly ridiculous and absurd as the notion that the miracle of life is a purely random occurance without any sort of guiding or organizing principal of creativity.

Why is the latter absurd? If you invoke a preexisting intelligence to explain the laws of nature and reality, then how absurd is the origin of that? I don't claim to understand how it's possible that everything exists. Nonetheless, ever since, things like how galaxies, solar systems, planets, and life from inorganic matter form, have happened through natural processes. Of course it's impossible to rule out a divine intervention, although it really does not look like one was ever needed. It's coincidental that we exist. We wouldn't be here if that meteorite hadn't hit Yucatan ~65 million years ago. Can you seriously believe that this was planned?

You raise some good points and indeed it's rather mysterious in either case!

I suppose if intelligent design were detected say in the formation of DNA or something like that, a case could be make for a creator God of some sort.

Mystics down through the ages of course claim to have had unitive experiences with a divine intelligent source which transcended the self and ordinary reality.

The problem today is that most so-called "believers" think of God as just another guy except infinitely bigger, but definitely other than ie: separate from, which is even more crazy imho.

Jesus himself reframed "God" to the woman at the well as "spirit and truth", and this is what feels right to me, which would indicate that the same center and source of all, is always present, but rooted and grounded in the truth and reality as it is ie: objective truth and reality.

The debate is stupid because most people don't get the definition of a theory. A theory is an description explaining a event based on empirical data. The fact that life changes, which is evolution is a fact. However the theory of evolution which says that evolution occurs because of natural selection is a theory, just like creationism. A perfect example is gravity, it's a fact that gravity exists, but we create different theories(Newton, Einstein) to explain why it exists. We know life has changed over time (evolution), but Darwin explained it using natural selection.
On the earlier matter that 46% of Americans are stupid because they believe in creationism is stupid in itself. All of humanity is subject to the same psychological biases that make us human, some however have grown up or been exposed to different environments thus leading to their different beliefs.
ps: never post supposed facts without providing links to the evidence.

Originally posted by Tbrooks76

Originally posted by Reflection

Originally posted by Tbrooks76
Evolution vs Creation….Dumb debate…

You all do realize it’s 100% speculation. None of us were there, no go good accountable records with details were taken so anything someone choses to believe about it is pure speculation based on what ‘facts’ the want to believe. There is no 100% fact trail to follow, each side of the debate has tons holes in their theories rather they want to admit it or not. An Evolutionist cannot explain or recreate how the first cell got life, a creationist can’t explain how/why God made the universe so huge and light from stars billions of miles away is hitting the earth. When you look at debates on this, Creationist have damm good point that Evolutionist ignore and well Evolutionist have great points Creationist ignore. Debating it stupid because all you do is point the holes in each other theories…

It boils down to is which set of ‘facts’ you want to follow to get the desired outcome your happy with.
Evolution vs Creation is all personal preference.

This is yet another example of trying to make religion a science (holes in the theory) and evolution a religion (100% speculation).

First off there is no such thing as 100% fact trail. Just like there isn't a 100% chance that with the next step u take the atoms on the ground won't separate and you end up falling into a black hole. It's astronomically improbable, but not 100%.

The reason science is different than religion is because science speculates on whats observed. Religion speculates on blind faith.

Personally, I'm "happy" with highly probable outcomes.... Occam's Razor.

Btw, evolutionists job is not to explain how the first cell, or cells, formed. Just how they evolved from that point.

There are a lot of other sciences working on that problem. The merger between physics and biology continues to grow everyday.

You wrote: First off there is no such thing as 100% fact trail
That is what I said!!! Its what make both evolution and creation a belief not a fact.


religion is a belief
evolution is a belief
science is science,

science and just to tool to explain things. Evolution itself is not science, it's a theroy which at its core is a belief.

Are you of the opinion that a religious belief and a scientific theory should hold the same amount of credence?

Personally I've come to suspect that the entire manifest reality is comprised of one very tricky, observing, photon, where "God's" motto might be "unity in variety" or "in the many, one", What that ultimate frame of reference is though is something that a science of parts and materialism could never fathom or discover. God will remain God (as mystery) forever it would seem, no matter how close we get to discovering the origin and destination of everything. The whole point of "belief" I think revolves around the notion of a type of relationship WITH the transcendant Godhead (Absolute), who, no matter how mysterious or ineffible, is nevertheless PRESENT, even intimitely so, and in answer to the why - for the purpose of SHARING something of value, which is better than there being nothing at all and no relational frame of reference, which, if you were an eternal mystery, might get rather boring after a few eternities, to the point that you as the nothing/everthing might be willing to be blown into an infinite series of fragments with the dim hope that someday, you might rediscover yourself and explore your own true nature AND get to have friends (children) with which to share it all. It's quite the gambit, if there is a God, so if he/she/whoever does exist, my hats off to him for his courage and willingness, to be broken down for the sake of koinonia (intimate/deep participative sharing in communion), hmph, maybe even long term cosmological macro-history is capable of repeating itself within the context of a localized, historical frame of reference... now wouldn't THAT be something, if Jesus really WAS God in the flesh!

So here's how it went, i think.. in the beginning.

"Who am I?"


"KaBOOM!"

Actually, after talking with my son, maybe the 46% are right. He told me that he was aware that Jesus was talking with Chuck Norris and a commoner (for want of a better term) on a boat out in shark infested waters, just off the coast. Apparently the boat ended up with a hole in it and was sinking. Now the fun started, Jesus said, OK follow my lead, stepped out of the boat and proceded to walk to shore. Naturally the commoner did the same with FAITH in Jesus. Oops, he sunk and was eaten. Not to be outdone, Chuck stepped out, walked across the water and stood next to Jesus on the shore. Jesus turned to him and said "do you think we should have told him about the rocks?" Chuck turned to him and said "what rocks".

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Tee hee, they have photos of the giant sequoias that are 100 years old.
Scroll down this page and you will find old daguerreotype photos taken during the 1800's
www.cathedralgrove.eu...

I followed your link and didn't find any mention saying that this 96 ft thick tree was 100 years old. Or even that one, which was about 30 ft thick.

Tee hee.

I think it groks.. ^^^

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree with some of what you're saying. But evolution doesn't try to tell us how we got here it only tries to explain the biological diversity found here on this planet.

Children should educate themselves about different world views and ideologies but not in the public school science class room. That should be reserved for philosophy class.


Here are a couple of sites that explain evolution and why it is seen as fact by most of the international scientific community:
en.wikipedia.org...
evolution.berkeley.edu...

...and lastly a link to an article from About.com entitled, "Evolution: Fact Or Theory? How Can It Be Both? What's the Difference?"
atheism.about.com...

Thanks

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Loneliness begat the universe? Well, yes -- and the desire to know itself.

that's actually pretty good. Statistically 50 percent of all persons in the US have below average IQs That only 46 percent of them believe in creationism means that at least 4 percent of them were still smart enough to realize what a crock of crap creationism is.

What if the truth is both creationism and evolution but in ways most people cannot comprehend yet?

Something needs to be created but is it created by itself and can it evolve by itself? Or someone/something molding the energy? I think it is absurd to think in absolute terms especially when dealing with unprovable theories.

And what is god? What is satan? Do either exist? In what form?

How many people contemplate what demons and angels are? Maybe they are aliens?

What are ghosts? What is exotic energy? What is a soul?

Mainstream science and mainstream religion fail to answer anything properly. This is intentional! The less the slave knows the more power your master has over you. Some people probably know 99.999% of the answers of the questions people don't even know how to ask.

Statistics lie. There is always an agenda. Specially when it comes to religion, evolution, church and science.

I love Sunday mornings in the complex where I live. Me and my dog get up early and go for a walk. It is totally quiet. She likes to pretend she is hunting and the quiet helps her hear all the animals. It is so quiet. I let her off the leash. Normally that is impossible because on any other morning there are cars and people out. But on Sundays? Not a whisper. It is like that all morning long.

At least where I live, not many people go to church. Those Sunday morning walks all alone with the animals?

Thats Church. Thats my religion. Thats when I worship.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Loneliness begat the universe? Well, yes -- and the desire to know itself.

Yeah, so as an insurance policy, the M.O. was, obviously, "go BIG or go home", because God certaintly doesn't seem to be realizing self-awareness here on Earth, except very very occassionally and periodically.

Makes you wonder what an entire planetary or even galactic, inter-species civilization of God-conscious, self-realized, sentient beings, might be like..

"Our father, who art in heaven
Sacred be thy name (goes by many names)
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven...?"

My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people.
~ Ezekiel 37:27

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
~Revelation 21:3

But alas (sigh), at the rate we're going, instead of God as spirit of truth and life in self-aware realization, settling down for a nice retirement here on earth (so to speak) we'd rather have an eternal debate between Creationists and Atheists.. we're absurd!

i'm a creationist who believes creation occurs over time..

so evolutionist then?

what's going on with all these words that mean the same thing?

46% of all statistics are meaningless.

Creationism definitely makes more sense than evolution because normally the egg comes before the chicken.

It is like the GMO crops where scientists manipulate the genes to produce better crops.

The "we came from cavemen and somehow evolved by ourselves to become modern man" is BS!

My theory is we were placed on earth by intelligent beings and we forgot our lineage OR the fallen angels breed with primitive cavemen and we are their offspring. I put more credence in the first theory though and that might explain the forgetten monuments on mars, the forgotten civilisations of atlantis and lemuria. Neither mainstream science nor mainstream religion dare to go public with what they know. It is all classified god knows where......

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Very interesting will definitely check this out and reply when I get a chance.

Thanks

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by HumanCondition
Actually I never said they were unintelligent or retarded.

No, no, of course you didn't. They just don't agree with you so they have mental issues.

Evolution is observed everyday and can be seen in your own anatomy.

When you think of Evolution, you are talking about Micro-Evolution, which is simply variation.

When I think of Evolution, I think of 5 things-

Cosmic Evolution, Stellar Evolution, Chemical Evolution, Organic Evolution, and Macro-Evolution.

None of these have been proven true, and just because all six of them (the five above and Micro-Evolution) are all apart of the same theory, does not mean they are all true when you can prove one of them (Micro-Evolution, an OBSERVABLE, TESTABLE, TRUTH).

Nothing in the Bible has proven to be true also both creationism and evolution are theories. You say you are disgusted with 54% of americans who believe in fairytales, well the Bible is full of fairytales.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I find it strange and disturbing just how many people would rather reject the God of Christianity, without even investigating it, and instead, make of fallen angel aliens, their God, it too is absurd, how fast people would rather place themselves in submission to questionable "powers and principalities" than be liberated from the snare by a God of absolute love and forgiveness. A great delusion indeed..

I much prefer the idea of a formative causation/creation within the context of a non-local, quantum holographic cosmological unity where the first shall be last, and the last, first. It's much more satisfying, and, as an added bonus, precludes the possibiity of predation whereby eat or be eaten does not get the last word and where God himself has been "processed" (see Holy Trinity), willingly, as spiritual "food" for our own enjoyment!

Get thee behind us Satan. - our destiny is to be absolutely free and liberated in the domain of limitless possibility, as spiritual beings made in the image and likeness of God the first/last cause. Sorry you lose, by my you're effective at signing up willing recruits with an anti-religious and anti-Christian bias..