In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

So for me to be right I have to refute everything written in a wiki article?! Lol... But you, just have to, once again, NOT tell me where I'm wrong. Because the truth is you really don't know, nobody does.

Never claimed anything other than you have no idea, and I don't have any idea, where or how life began or why humans are so advanced.

So keep claiming your all knowing and such... your beginning to sound like the creationist you despise. lol.

It's a wiki article that provides references for all the claims put forth. This is something you fail to do, and fact is that you can't refute a single point made. I don't care about baseless opinions, and until you can deliver more, this discussion will not lead to anything.

reply to post by NoJoker13


The theory of evolution *never* states that man came directly from Chimps. It states that we share "a" common ancestor, 6 million years ago.

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

HUMANS DID NOT EVOLVE FROM CHIMPS. How many times does this have to be repeated?

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Barcs

 

Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

How ignorant are you? We did not come directly from the chimps. This is evolution 101 taught in the elementary school! Why is this so god damn difficult for you to understand? Sharing a common ancestor means that once upon time there was a species from which numerous contemporary species descend.

I feel sorry for anyone that feels they are "more intelligent" than someone because they believe in evolution. You can tell the difference between someone who follows through with the evolutionary theory because they're critical thinkers, and the other people who "say" the believe it because they never dared question their teacher/professor lest they be ridiculed in front of the class, etc. In other words, coerced. Creationism/religion has this problem also, obviously, but I get bent out of shape whenever the militant "evolutionists" call themselves more enlightened/intelligent/tolerant. etc.

The sad part is, whether you believe in evolution or "creationism" as it were, it makes not a bit of difference to how successful or intelligent you are, nor does it say how well you interact with others. If you're just some stupid, militant bastard that stereotypes, and does nothing short of spit in the face of other people whenever they challenge you.... then well, maybe there is way more to the "people are apes" thing than people realize. . . .

Most militant evolutionists tend to be brats, and they are not people you want to be around, in my experience.
Most militant creationists are conservative Christians, or Catholics.. and you generally don't want to be around them either. Basically anyone that makes a "big deal" out of secondary subjects, or their "beliefs" usually at the expense of the people around them. Completely lacking courtesy or the precious humanity they so claim to uphold.

The rest of the folks are what I would like to call, "normal". They realize it's wholly none of their business whether someone believes they evolved from apes or came from the spaghetti monster in the sky. They also realize it's not a yardstick from which to measure someone's worth or character, unless said person is "militant" and incendiary of course. These are the real intelligent people. You know, people that go on with their lives and devote their time to matters of real worth and value.

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

HUMANS DID NOT EVOLVE FROM CHIMPS. How many times does this have to be repeated?

YOU NAZI! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE AUTHORITY OF THE GENERIC SHOOL CURRICULUM!

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

HUMANS DID NOT EVOLVE FROM CHIMPS. How many times does this have to be repeated?

That the thing, the other side never takes in the information, only spews what they been indoctrinated.

You can explain that Chimps and Man shared same ancestors but it wont do anything. They will read this but revert back to their original thought soon.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Barcs

 

Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

How ignorant are you? We did not come directly from the chimps. This is evolution 101 taught in the elementary school! Why is this so god damn difficult for you to understand? Sharing a common ancestor means that once upon time there was a species from which numerous contemporary species descend.

Does it make ya feel smart? Really, does it? Your argument may be helpful if not for your condescending attitude.

The fossil record of our ancestors (among other species) clearly show a progression. Erectus, for example, began as less like Sapien and progressed through time until the fossils show that Erectus was more like man.

Infact, one of the major problems in evolutionary anthropology is trying to decide where one species stops and the next begins. This is why we see a proliferation of newly proposed species. Very often when a skull is unearthed it is found to not be exactly like any other. It fits between this skull and that one on an evolutionary scale.

This is where science is today. Creationism, meanwhile, is still trying to figure out how to reconcile an incorrect bible with the facts and substantiated data that haunts them so.

I'll give it to you creationists though. You do learn from your failures. You've given up on a 6,000 year old Earth, and fake dinosaur bones. Most of you have. Now You've moved on to challenging microbiology. How many of you actually have any credentials that lend any weight to any of this blabber? I have my credentials. I spent the years studying science, learning what we know and what we don't. I had to abandon religion (with great difficulty) because it is irrational.

Reading through this thread is rather entertaining. It is funny to see people debate things that they really know nothing about. I hate to tell you but reading up on a few websites or perusing the christian book store does not make you qualified to make any statement whatsoever. You have the right to, but that doesn't make it valid.

My favorite quote, "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its' way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

HUMANS DID NOT EVOLVE FROM CHIMPS. How many times does this have to be repeated?

YOU NAZI! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE AUTHORITY OF THE GENERIC SHOOL CURRICULUM!

god did it. make sense.

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

What do you think RNA is made of... I have a bachelor in biology, your right evolution doesn't aim to make species smarter. It makes them more likely to survive the forces driving on their existence. So a orange seal will generally die before a camouflaged white one in the artic etc. But what were these forces driving on homo erectis that werent driving on apes?

There is also no evidence of one species changing into another. There just isnt. So humans have 98% ape genes. Show me the species or remains that has 99% or 98.5%? We didn't go from 100 straight to 98. And anything inbetween would have had a hard time breeding, as different species produce sterile offspring, if any at all.

Never said evolution was wrong but to blindly follow it is ignorant.

Hi KnawLick, It's nice t hear from someone that has actually studied biology, you ask a very good question there I think. However the differences between Man and Ape have become much more widespread.

The 98% difference has been lowered to around 96% but this only compares the protein coding sequence which makeup less than 2% of the entire genome. So we have a 96% similarity within only 2% of the entire genome(s).

Since the Chimp DNA has been roughly drafted it's been found that comparing the entire genomes we are only around 70% smiliar which is well within the bounds of expectation considering we share a similar body plan. This number is likely to be lowered even more as the details are fllled in.

Furthermore the chimp genome is about 10 to 12% larger than ours. To further accentuate the differences the Y chromosme is dramatically different. So much in fact that the scientist conducting that particular study could only comeup with one possible explanation, which leads to another one of your points.

They speculate that early homonids actually mated with chimps! and then human evoluton started again so to speak.This is highly unlikely for the reasons you mentioned. But as we know they must create a story without evidence in order maintain the paradigm. This is pretty much the substance of NeoDarwinism. Stories are created to fill the holes.

Recently the gorrilla genome was mapped and a good percentage of those genes around 20 to 30% If I recall correctly are closer to ours than we have with the chimps, throwing further disparity into the nice clean picture the Darwinists have tried to paint for us. These new pieces of information completely dismantle all thier hopes of making a nice evolutionary connection as well as throwng the whole hodge podge lineage idea further from reality.

One more point I'd like to menton is that the effort for most of the darwinian skeptics is not to introduce religion or intelligent design into the classrooms, no not at all. The efforts are to introduce both the strengths an weaknesses of NeoDarwinism.

No matter what side of the fence you happen to sit on this should be encouraged because this is what science is about, theories should and must be challenged and one should be allowed to hear and voice an opinion.

But alas this is what the Darwinists fear, why is that? If the theory is robust enough it will survive. Survival of the fittest you could say.

The masses do not know any better because they have not been told the full story unless they have independently studied for themselves. This is simply because no opposition has been allowed. Even worse is that you would be fired discredited and persecuted for even expressing doubts. Generally if you start with a belief you will naturally favour arguments from that side and filter what doesn't fit. It's human nature.

Most of the general population who have been conditoned into a belief system and mistake evolution for gene plasticity and epigentic effects, eg. Bacterial resistance, selective breeding etc.. Not all who disagree are religious fanatics, Many simply intuitively feel within themselves that something dosen't sit right.

Just to add, I came to my own conclusion through biology, I've never read the bible and have been to church about five times in my forty plus years on this planet. And those few times were extremely painful to me. Sorry Christians, I still don't judge though.

Sorry for the long post, Your comments brought up many thoughts for me.

Cheers!

reply to post by Erectus


Have we found the missing link? Just curious.

reply to post by SyphonX

I agree that people shouldn't just "believe" in evolution. On the contrary they should evaluate facts, and realize that it's a force of nature, and that things indeed went down more or less like modern synthesis depicts. However, the sad fact is that the majority of humans are not very intelligent..

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by Barcs

 

I never said I even believe in creationism... You just assume that. What I believe is the truth, that we have no idea how life started or why humans are so much more advanced than everything else.

I just hate evolutionist people like you that are ALWAYS right. You sound no better than the creationist. Your both to blame!!!

The truth is there ARE shades of grey in this world and you DON'T know the answer to every question. So stop pretending like you do. None of us do, not you, not me, not the smartest scientist on this planet. Just accept to truth, WE DON'T KNOW!

I'm just defending science and correcting people's misunderstandings. Science is based on facts. The truth is we are learning about why humans are so much more advanced. Scientists are trying to answer these questions every day. To discount their research as if its a pure guess is not only an insult to the scientific community, but also to anybody in the world that has ever used the scientific method of fact gathering. I never claimed to know everything, only that the science behind evolution is solid. If you don't agree, show me the exact science experiments that are wrong and explain why. Show me the scientific evidence that supports ANY theory besides evolution. I'm not saying I'm all knowing, I'm saying that I trust a scientist to explain how something works, over a layman or religious person that hasn't done an ounce of study on it or even read the basics.

All I'm saying is STOP the war on science and knowledge. It's not justified. You are welcome to believe whatever you like provided it doesn't harm others, but don't tell someone who has studied and researched something for 30+ years of their life that they are wrong and simply guessing unless you have done research yourself that proves them wrong.

reply to post by Covertblack


There is no such thing as a missing link.

reply to post by squiz


Wow, you actually gave a good explanation without being an a&**#* Star for you!

reply to post by luciddream


This is true for both sides actually. Symbolic concrete thinking is simply an earlier step in the cognitive maturity process that many never grow out of. They regurgitate and look to authorities for their conviction. They lack the tools to extrapolate, or synergize novel information.

This has nothing to do with their native intelligence; rather -- this is a function of a relative lack of education, and relative lack of intellectually stimulating throughput.

Originally posted by Covertblack

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Barcs

 

Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

How ignorant are you? We did not come directly from the chimps. This is evolution 101 taught in the elementary school! Why is this so god damn difficult for you to understand? Sharing a common ancestor means that once upon time there was a species from which numerous contemporary species descend.

Does it make ya feel smart? Really, does it? Your argument may be helpful if not for your condescending attitude.

When people still insist on stupid questions like why chimps still exist if we evolved from then, I can't help but being condescending. Ignorance plagues this place..

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by HumanCondition
46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

Translation-

46% of the US is retarded, and I am more intelligent then those 143 million people.

To the rest of you- Evolution is a theory and has NOT been observed, never, ever, ever. It has never been proven, and it is not science.

Debate me, I challenge you. Any claim, any question, any attack- I accept all.

so, what do you call it when a bacteria or disease changes to become resistant to certain drugs or treatments, and then produces an offspring with said resistances? The offspring is born ready to fight off our drugs, and yet its parent had to develop these resistances. that's evolution. that's been observed.

how about natural hybridization? when two different species create a viable offspring which belongs to neither parent species completely? What is a Liger? Those have been observed in zoos. If two Ligers mate and produce offspring, then that offspring is neither lion or tiger. so what is it?! it's a new species. it's evolution happening right in front of our eyes and all around us.

also, what does it matter than evolution is a theory? what else would you call it? it's a reasonable explanation to an age old question backed by evidence gathered through observation and experimentation. what else do you call that? unless you're thinking that if it were "proven" then we'd call it the Law of Evolution. which we wouldn't. a law is easily expressible in mathematical terms, a theory is more complicated and cannot be described with mathematical equations. one is not superior to the other.

reply to post by rhinoceros


I never said I even believe in creationism... You just assume that. What I believe is the truth, that we have no idea how life started or why humans are so much more advanced than everything else.

I just hate evolutionist people like you that are ALWAYS right. You sound no better than the creationist. Your both to blame!!!

The truth is there ARE shades of grey in this world and you DON'T know the answer to every question. So stop pretending like you do. None of us do, not you, not me, not the smartest scientist on this planet. Just accept to truth, WE DON'T KNOW!