In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Originally posted by NoJoker13
You still miss understand, you CANNOT shed or gain a chromosome through EVOLUTION. Knowing this fact.

Can you prove that statement to be a fact as you claim?

reply to post by luciddream


I wasn't trying to discredit the science of evolution just merely point out that its a guestamation. Truth is no credible scientist can explain how or why life was created. Nor can they explain the far and away advanced nature of humans, there is no evolutionary explanation for why we fly spaceships to other planets and monkeys still swing from trees. Yes it may explain why we lost our hair, or why we eat meat, etc. but not why we are so advanced.

I don't have another explanation. I personally believe the only explanation is "we have no idea". Because thats the actual truth...

reply to post by Barcs


Again I'm not trying to prove 'facts' here, I'm stating that many here are excepting something as fact, that to this point, still isn't. It's an excepted THEORY and seems to be the correct path but still hasn't been proven to be true and has some HUGE holes in it's theory. Therefor anyone claiming either side to be correct is an IDIOT because the unfoulable data simply doesn't exist.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


No, sorry. If you read my last three posts, you'd know that my problems with Christianity stem from the way it was organized after Jesus' death, its eschatology, its rigid rejection of science in favor of pure metaphor, and, frankly -- the doctrine of "original sin." For me personally, a maker vast enough to create entire universes using physics as its toolset, is unlikely to have set up a false enemy in order to perpetuate suffering and allow for "free will." The entire basis of that belief structure is very first century, and in desperate need to revision. It simply does not "add up."

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

You still miss understand, you CANNOT shed or gain a chromosome through EVOLUTION. Knowing this fact, how could we share a common ancestor with a chimp that has a different number of chromosomes? It's an impossibility at this point an is actually sudo science to suggest that fact, every other animal has a clear path of where they came from, we do not, so please like every other person here have enough common sense to know that we don't know enough to get an clear answer on the subject matter. Only time will tell and a creationist AT THIS POINT, is as close to the 'TRUTH' as you are.

No. You still misunderstand. We share a common ancestor not only with chimps but with all life on Earth. After diverging from the chimp & bonobo lineage, in our lineage two chromosomes fused (nothing was shed). And anyway, chromosomes can also be lost and gained. There are numerous examples of this having happened, and you're just arguing from IGNORANCE.

reply to post by Barcs


I was obviously, or I thought, being facetious. "man" split from the evolutionary tree from apes supposedly 4 million years ago. but yet modern man has only existed for 200,000 years. so where are all the fossils of the ape-men? if ape-men existed for 4,000,000 - 200,000 years... where are they all, should be millions, if not billions. surely 1 fossil of an ape-man would put this discussion to rest...

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by Danbones

 

Whats the title say "MAY". humans MAY have also bred with aliens... truth is I don't claim to know, because the science is inclusive. I mean turn on the science channel programs on origins of life, they will say the same thing.

Not some whack job, dinosaurs and humans hung out, but NOBODY knows what the truth is, to suggest otherwise is ignorant

Nobody is suggesting they know the total truth except creationists, and that is in the face of FAIL after FAIL
(remember Galileo?)
Science recognizes its limitation and keeps on questing for the answer
so in that sense I agree with you...
It is is ignorant to claim one knows the truth when one doesn't

science has the prepondeance of evidence on its side
and as it has been shown with cockroaches and fruitfliesand MERSA - evidence that evolution exists is a
DONE DEAL

to claim there is no such thing as eveolution is IGNORANT to try to claim the right to teach that to children on equal footing with evolution should be considered child abuse and the criminals should be prosecuted

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Barcs

 

Again I'm not trying to prove 'facts' here, I'm stating that many here are excepting something as fact, that to this point, still isn't. It's an excepted THEORY and seems to be the correct path but still hasn't been proven to be true and has some HUGE holes in it's theory. Therefor anyone claiming either side to be correct is an IDIOT because the unfoulable data simply doesn't exist.

Evolution is a fact. Sorry. The THEORY of evolution isn't complete fact because there are hypotheses involved that currently being tested and experimented on. The process itself is a slam dunk and to think otherwise is denying basic biology. All holes in evolution are lies that are spread by dishonest creationists and nothing more. Read a real science book instead of getting your information from liars.

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Actually your wrong about that, we can't measure the evolution of humans, that's the problem, if we could you could show me our 100% match in our past.

We have mapped the entire homo sapien genome as well as some of our ancestors. As a result we know that Neanderthals bred with homo sapiens. We can see the clear genetic link to them as well as denosivans.

www.sciencenews.org...

So if we can measure the mutation rate in humans and know that natural selection is true, then explain to me how evolution does not apply, since those 2 things DEFINE evolution.

We take something that seems right and then associate it with something else. Your science says this took place 200k years ago, not nearly enough time to rearrange chromosome structure, that type of evolution, ACCORDING TO SCIENCE, takes millions of years. Also there's the fact that an animal that evolves from a genus leaves that genus behind, so in theory why are chimps still around? Another paradox... Please use some common sense, you know nothing more then the people many here call ignorant.

Your understanding of human evolution is very poor. Please provide a link that suggests the chromosome fusion took place 200,000 years ago. You are now just making stuff up to fit your theory or belief system or whatever it is. Humans didn't evolve from chimps. Another lie. Please use common sense, you know nothing about evolution at all.

It does,nt matter what theory you subscribe to. Whether you take a scientific view point or a creationist one. They are essentialy trying to prove the same thing. You can always say in both cases. Well, what came before that?.. and before that?

All we can be certain of is that we exist as proof there is,nt nothing. So we can look at the Universe and say yes we exist. Similarly whatever gave birth to the Universe can look at it and say it exists. The Univerese would,nt exist otherewise.

There does,nt have to be an agenda. Any attempts to give meaning to the proccess just puts a humanistic view point on something that is,nt human. Why do we keep pretending that we know, and keep looking for signs that we are right?

Its better to accept that we know nothing and explore the things that are what i call the great truth. Yes we exist. The only thing we can be sure of is that we are concsciouse. It is our Consciousness that gives birth to everything we experience. Thats all we need to know.

I personaly doubt that the creator or God or conciousness itself. Whatever you want to call it has any agenda other than to see itself. The universe is nothing more than a mirror. Any dualistic concepts that we hold are merely human ones created to balance are emotions and reinforce our morals, and are,nt held by anything other than humans.

You could say that a fox that attacks a young chicken and tears it apart is evil. Its only evil if you hold that belief. The fox does,nt have any concept or belief in Evil and so it has no feelings of remorse.

reply to post by rhinoceros


O has it in the time line given? Site the examples please because I'm, calling you out, on the fact that animals can lose or gain a chromosome in 200k years or fuse for that matter. Since your clearly so intelligent and have a way of talking down to people like your the all knowing, please further explain yourself and site the evidence you claim to have. You call me ignorant, but true ignorance is accepting THEORY as fact, since evolution is a theory that makes you ignorant and the top scientists in the world would agree with me.

Originally posted by KnawLick
So please, I would love to hear the errors in my argument in all seriousness?

You say there's no evidence. Meanwhile, in real life, there's a massive massive mountain of evidence, and no evidence (nothing at all) to the contrary. Modern synthesis is perhaps the most backed up theory humans have ever conceived. But yeah, continue your life in ignorance. If you ever change your mind, just read a god damn science book or perhaps a wiki article like this. Only argue again once you can refute every single point e.g. the linked article makes. Thanks.

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by Barcs

 

I was obviously, or I thought, being facetious. "man" split from the evolutionary tree from apes supposedly 4 million years ago. but yet modern man has only existed for 200,000 years. so where are all the fossils of the ape-men? if ape-men existed for 4,000,000 - 200,000 years... where are they all, should be millions, if not billions. surely 1 fossil of an ape-man would put this discussion to rest...

DUDE. Search google for human evolution and fossil formation. There have been dozens of species found in between humans and our ancient apelike ancestors, despite fossilization being incredibly rare. Stop arguing from deceptive creationist websites. Read the actual science.

46% - well this is America and lets not get carried away here.

It is Americans we are talking about, and the average American is no cleverer than a string of sausages.

It would be interesting to know why the other 54% do not support that idea and what correlation it has to their upbringing.

I would like to see how bother sets of people were raised and where in the US the 46% predominantly come from.

reply to post by blackcube


I'm proudly one of the 46%. I know a lot of ATSers are not. I can respect their choice, and hope they can respect mine. I've been witness to a few miracles in my life which evolution could never explain. Even without the miracles though I'd believe in God on faith alone.

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

O has it in the time line given? Site the examples please because I'm, calling you out, on the fact that animals can lose or gain a chromosome in 200k years or fuse for that matter. Since your clearly so intelligent and have a way of talking down to people like your the all knowing, please further explain yourself and site the evidence you claim to have. You call me ignorant, but true ignorance is accepting THEORY as fact, since evolution is a theory that makes you ignorant and the top scientists in the world would agree with me.

The human lineage diverged from the chimp & bonobo lineage 6-8 million years ago, so where are you getting the 200k figure from? For chromosomal fusions go to scholar.google.com and search "chromosome fusion". In the first page of results we have detailed accounts of chromosome fusions in bears, grasshoppers, flies, humans, yeast, and deers. It can happen in just one generation. It's not magic. Get over it.

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

O has it in the time line given? Site the examples please because I'm, calling you out, on the fact that animals can lose or gain a chromosome in 200k years or fuse for that matter. Since your clearly so intelligent and have a way of talking down to people like your the all knowing, please further explain yourself and site the evidence you claim to have. You call me ignorant, but true ignorance is accepting THEORY as fact, since evolution is a theory that makes you ignorant and the top scientists in the world would agree with me.

I'm asking you for the second time. Please back up your statement that the fusion occurred 200,000 years ago. I mean you don't even know what a scientific theory is, so I'm not really expecting anything scientific. My prediction is your next response will repeat the same lies again, despite being given sources on the chromosome fusion and other applicable data.

reply to post by rhinoceros


So for me to be right I have to refute everything written in a wiki article?! Lol... But you, just have to, once again, NOT tell me where I'm wrong. Because the truth is you really don't know, nobody does.

Never claimed anything other than you have no idea, and I don't have any idea, where or how life began or why humans are so advanced.

So keep claiming your all knowing and such... your beginning to sound like the creationist you despise. lol.

reply to post by Barcs


Then where is the one with 23 chromosome pairs? An why are chimps still around? Two questions that if you can answer for me I'll believe that the evolution of man directly came from chimps. I never said I didn't believe in evolution or religion my point here is that neither side no enough, again we're discussing HUMAN evolution here, don't know enough to be correct on the matter. I do believe in evolution and that it is fact, although the theory of how that happens is not. The path of human evolution cannot be mapped from A-Z until it can your theories on the subject are simply unfounded and that's my point.

reply to post by Barcs


I never said I even believe in creationism... You just assume that. What I believe is the truth, that we have no idea how life started or why humans are so much more advanced than everything else.

I just hate evolutionist people like you that are ALWAYS right. You sound no better than the creationist. Your both to blame!!!

The truth is there ARE shades of grey in this world and you DON'T know the answer to every question. So stop pretending like you do. None of us do, not you, not me, not the smartest scientist on this planet. Just accept to truth, WE DON'T KNOW!

Evolution is no way science fact.

It is science's way of explaining how man got here through the world around us. It is not science's place to tell Human Kind that God does or does not exist because science is not out to disprove God or provide proof. Science is out to understand the world / space around us within our best means possible.

I personally think it is good science looks at science and not religion. Religion has no place in science simply because we don't have the capacity to understand God. Leave religion to the pastors / family and science to the scientist.

Everything must be explained through the Scientific Method. It is simple and easy for us to understand more complicated matter or ... non matter.

You either believe the universe has existed forever or you believe God has existed forever. 50 50 chance here.

I much rather be safe than sorry. You can live your life as you want , die and nothing is there , but if it is ... you better hope you chose correctly.