Originally posted by waynos

Very nice, made me smile. I wasn't expecting........................that

Altogether now...

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...Cardinal Fang, bring in...THE COMFY CHAIR!

But, I thought the Russians sold the migs to them and inturn reverse manufacturing made more , there also renamed after purchase right.

Originally posted by devilwasp
whats wrong with being a commie? even though china is not communist.

Oh nothing, its just that you support a country whose founder killed millions who wanted freedom and BTW China is ruled by the communist party of china for around 80 years and you say its not communist!!
What are going to claim next? Joseph Stalin and Mao were neighbors in Brooklyn and that’s where they picked up their " not communist" ways??
really?

Originally posted by devilwasp
this is comeing from the country that stole the tech from germany and claimed it as thiers?

If you have ever researched about the end of WW2 you would know that Von Braun came to work for Us and that’s were he was able to develop his " tech " further which Hitler didn't pay much importance
Also we took Von Braun and the tech because we had the initiative to see it to its full potential, while the British were busy rebuilding Uk we had to counter another threat not as complacent as the British i.e. USSR.

If you say that all modern jet aircraft designs are from the Reich then basically the whole world copied the principles of flying form the Wright Flyer!!
Further more we didn't sit still and beg for help when germany attacked, we fought them ,won and took what we wanted! That is not stealing and as soon as Von Braun went to the US he became a US citizen therefore all his work from then on would belong to an American !He got the opportunity that he didn't get under Hitler.

Originally posted by devilwasp
well since when do most airforces have enemy's that actually want to go to war hmmm i can name 1 it begins with a U and ends with an S

Well I dont know which country you are referring to but the USAF doesn't want to go to war, we are always forced into it because we feel that its is our duty to put the world at order for the sake of all the people who love and want freedom fom tyranny and imperialists.
That includes saving your butts back in WW2!!

Originally posted by devilwasp
uhh dude we can, see after a while of inventing stuff and giveing it ot other countries we decided to let some one else build it then get the tech and upgrade it.
yeah with russian engineers and lots of money that could have saved a lot of lives.

Yeah just like your inventing stuff right now - inventing yourself a false sense of pride, face it- Your empires gone bye-bye and you are disgruntled.



[edit on 10-11-2004 by IAF101]

I have to say that not only are you wrong but you are simplistic and infantile with it. Your grasp of History is so warped I reckon you learned it from Fox News.

Oh nothing, its just that you support a country whose founder killed millions

'Being' a communist is not supporting any country. The meaning of communism is basically 'fair shares for everyone'. This is far removed from the corrupted and politicised form of communism that we all came to despise since the end of WW2. Maybe that concept is too complex for you?

the British were busy rebuilding Uk we had to counter another threat not as complacent as the British i.e. USSR.

Here you display your ignorance again. After Germany fell Churchill tried desperately to get the US to carry on the war against Russia, Britain warning YOU that communist Russia (not communism) was a bigger threat than the Nazis. Truman knew that the American people wouldn't accept it and refused. Not that we were in a position to fight on anyway, financially if not militarily, but this is quite different from your view.

basically the whole world copied the principles of flying form the Wright Flyer!!

Actually, if you are taking that view the Wrights only copied George Cayley anyway.

Further more we didn't sit still and beg for help when germany attacked, we fought them

What the HELL do you think WE were doing between 1939 (thats when the war started you know) and Dec 1941 when you got interested after Germany declared war on YOU!

Well I dont know which country you are referring to but the USAF doesn't want to go to war, we are always forced into it because we feel that its is our duty to put the world at order for the sake of all the people who love and want freedom fom tyranny and imperialists.
That includes saving your butts back in WW2!!

Oh please! Someone pass the sick bag. What a crock of _____ from start to finish. Do you believe this rubbish? If you do there is no point trying to talk to you as you are clearly a propaganda swallowing buffoon.

FYI you did not 'save our butts' as the planned invasion of the UK was defeated in 1940, more than a year before you got involved. Ultimately we would have faced a stalemate with Germany and the alliance with the US created a force of sufficient strength to force them back and defeat them but there were more British forces than US in the European theatre just as there were more US forces in the Pacific.

Yes, we are still inventing stuff. Why is this strange? You have some wierd views thats for sure, I bet you have the stars and stripes tattooed on your ass


[edit on 10-11-2004 by waynos]

As an American with Chinese heritage, I have to agree with waynos, not that he is convincing, but he at least know some unbiased truth.

US at the moment has as more propaganda than China and Russia, our media is so vastly used by politicians, I had to sell my TV.

Originally posted by IAF101


Oh nothing, its just that you support a country whose founder killed millions who wanted freedom and BTW China is ruled by the communist party of china for around 80 years and you say its not communist!!

firstly the founder was germany not the USSR so get your facts straight. also they didnt do it in the name of free. BTW it was done because they thought it would defend thier country or just because stalin was a dictator and was a physcopath. any way i am not here to defend the USSR. THAT government in china is a facist government. want to know why? because in comunism there is no country,money,armies or government. and the government in china is very right wing, of course you would know this if you had researched about comunism. yes i say it is a right wing government diguesed as a left wing one.

What are going to claim next? Joseph Stalin and Mao were neighbors in Brooklyn and that’s where they picked up their " not communist" ways??
really?

no actually both got it from Eduard Bernstein of the germany.

If you have ever researched about the end of WW2 you would know that Von Braun came to work for Us and that’s were he was able to develop his " tech " further which Hitler didn't pay much importance
Also we took Von Braun and the tech because we had the initiative to see it to its full potential, while the British were busy rebuilding Uk we had to counter another threat not as complacent as the British i.e. USSR.

oh really?
so that little jet engine of yours was NOT taken from germany. or what about that nice rocket technology, good AMERICAN, tech huh. dont think so.
so the fact we provied the only early warning center for europe was because you moved the US military over here? Or the fact we still proved the ASW comand in the NATO fleet?

If you say that all modern jet aircraft designs are from the Reich then basically the whole world copied the principles of flying form the Wright Flyer!!

actually the whole system would be based on the michalangelo (exscuse spelling) idea. adn he designed it around birds, so we can thank mother nature.

Further more we didn't sit still and beg for help when germany attacked, we fought them ,won and took what we wanted! That is not stealing and as soon as Von Braun went to the US he became a US citizen therefore all his work from then on would belong to an American !He got the opportunity that he didn't get under Hitler.

the US only helped the allies it didnt win the war on its own.
really? took what you wanted wow that sounds real liberator style more like thief talk.
the opertunity under hitler? so being in the tech center of the world didnt give him opertunities.

Well I dont know which country you are referring to but the USAF doesn't want to go to war, we are always forced into it because we feel that its is our duty to put the world at order for the sake of all the people who love and want freedom fom tyranny and imperialists.
That includes saving your butts back in WW2!!

forced to go to war eh? soo lets see iraq was a real threat to the US i suppose?
from tyrany eh? would this be the great chinese dragon?
saveing our butts actually the russians did more than the americans just a little note BTW.
also you did actually join because germany declared war on you.
yoru idea of comunism comes from where BTW if it comes from the holywood then your watching a propaganda unit by the pentagon at work. they have changed many scripts to make america come out on top and the russians look bad.
also thanks to waynos reminding me, thanks BTW, we did stop hitlers operation sea lion ever being launched. now even if it was we could have stopped it. remember we controled the skies.

Yeah just like your inventing stuff right now - inventing yourself a false sense of pride, face it- Your empires gone bye-bye and you are disgruntled.

oh yeah hell yeah we have false pride, best sub trainers and aircrews in the world hell yeah. best trained army/navy/RAF in the world yeah thats something to be ashamed of.
also our marines are at the fitness level of navy seals do i see 6000 US marines at this level?



[edit on 11-11-2004 by devilwasp]

[edit on 11-11-2004 by devilwasp]

Invention and innovation is not limited to any one nation. China used the first rockets in warfare, discovered gunpowder and Sun Tzu's art of war basically invented organised military strategy. So yeah every country has it's innovations and they are generally brought on by nessesity, England had it's Man O'War ships, Germany had it's V2 rockets, America had it's A-bomb ect. ect. ect. China seems to be using a cost effective method to try to catch up to other nations when i comes to aircraft technology and i don't see anything wrong with that. Who knows maybe the next real innovation in aircraft tech (e.g. propeller < jet < ?) will come from China at some point in the future. If they were put into a position were they really needed to innovate it could happen.



[edit on 11-11-2004 by Trent]

so being in the tech center of the world didnt give him opertunities

Von Braun wanted Space Flight, Hitler wanted missiles. Of course there is no room for manned space flight during a war.
But that he got the opportunity in the US and not in germany after the war is simple. Germany was bombed to the ground, the US were not. (the Amerikabomber got little to no attention because Hitler considered the USA his "ally")

Wayno, Devilwasp,

Thankyou. You know, I'd rather be labelled Communist than BE that ignorant.
Perhaps the biggest conspiracy out there is the incredible dearth of world knowledge being exhibited by the population of the nation most eager to imprint its views on the world.

Obviously someone learned his world history from Hollywood. That would be where the Yanks captured the Enigma and cracked the code!

IAF, suggest you find out the political status of the Falklands, Gibralter, Bermuda, St Helena etc. before you sign the death certificate on the Empire. There's also a small group called the Commonwealth, go see how many members it has.

The KMT withdrew to Taiwan in 1949. 80 years anybody?

As for the Wrights, go find out who Otto Lillienthal was.

Then

GET A CLUE!

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

IAF, suggest you find out the political status of the Falklands, Gibralter, Bermuda, St Helena etc. before you sign the death certificate on the Empire. There's also a small group called the Commonwealth, go see how many members it has.

God Save the Queen!!

so funny. i believe this is much of my comment about the copies.

Originally posted by IAF101

Being a communist supporter means supporting dictators who kill thousand s who disagree with their principles and ideology and the harbringers of oppression and misery .

says who? holywood who is told to change the film script to make america look good? OPPPS sorry to burst your buble.

'fair share for every one' - What happened to the "fair share " for the thousands of tibetian buddhists who were butchered by the " fair share "
army? What happened to their 'fair share' of life for all the thousands of Buddhists and students who were killed??[tibet and tiammen]What happened to the 'fair share' of all the people who had to leave their families and go into exile??

uhh firstly your using a socialist country as an exsample of comunism? sure they are both left but get real.

By saying that communism was not a threat only USSR is like saying that the Death Camps were not bad, only if you were a Jew it was bad!
I hope you are not saying that ? Not here anyway.

UHH NO the USSR was not comunist there has been no REAL comunist country. period.

It was because of communism that so many people died(about 6 million under Stalin) , because of the power it gave one man to decide the fate of a nation and to bend its people to suit his vanity.

IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS A DICTATOR GET OUT OF YOUR AMERICANISED BOX!

You should ask yourself what the HELL were you doing when Germany defied all your sanctions against it after WW1 and started building up for another onslaught.?

we where rebuilding our country and france was busy stealing thier coal. while america stole thier money.

Ask yourself what were the British doing when germany occupied the Rine river territory , what were you doing when germany occupied Austria?,

they where rebuilding thier country after fighting a long war. and our government was not ready to start another war.

What were the so called Empire doing when Germany occupied Czechoslovakia, What were the British doing when Germany marched over Poland and France.

you have no idea where we where eh? we where in france when they invaded! we where overwhelmed and had to retreat.

Nothing!! Thats what it was doing?? A country under sanctions and defeated after WW1 was trouping around europe taking over and the British just watched .

no we where fighting them hell do you guys actual do history?

Only when the started bombing your houses did you wake up and put up a pathetic fight! After america got involved we (i.e General Eisenhower ) started an effecrtive plan to counter the Nazi war machine!

actually we helped retake norway,supply the resistance,fight in africa,fight in the mediteranian,atlantic and the north sea. we couldnt fight them off on our own because they outnumbered us.

Originally posted by IAF101

IF you call that ruling the skies then maybe even Iceland could have overthrown the luftwaffe!

"on breaking point?" yeah against a country wich had reasources from an entire continent i think we done pretty well.
just exsactly what is your point BTW we where fighting an enemy with more than 10 times our forces but we held and we stood.
who wrote that site BTW? seems to have left out a lot of details.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

IAF, suggest you find out the political status of the Falklands, Gibralter, Bermuda, St Helena etc. before you sign the death certificate on the Empire. There's also a small group called the Commonwealth, go see how many members it has.

OH please don't tell me!
The commonwealth ?? You call that your empire?
The last time I read all of them kicked the empire out!
Falklands........fought heroically against the argentenians(BRAVO!)
gibralter...........big rock in the mediteranian
blah, blah....... inconsequential

If you pride yourselves on belonging to an empire hated by all the its former states and practiced wanton looting of its colonies to build itself and to practice discrimination and neglect to its colonies, then you would be real proud wouldn't you??

I don't recall any of our former colonies hating us.

On the contrary the commonwealth is one of the worlds largest and most succesfull organisations.

Take India for example... one of our largest trade partners for years

Originally posted by IAF101

OH please don't tell me!
The commonwealth ?? You call that your empire?
The last time I read all of them kicked the empire out!
Falklands........fought heroically against the argentenians(BRAVO!)
gibralter...........big rock in the mediteranian
blah, blah....... inconsequential

If you pride yourselves on belonging to an empire hated by all the its former states and practiced wanton looting of its colonies to build itself and to practice discrimination and neglect to its colonies, then you would be real proud wouldn't you??

For your information, if push came to shove, Gilbraltar is the best location in europe for controlling shipping into the Mediteranian. That is one of the reasons we will not give it up, the power it gives us if there is another war in europe.

If so many of our former colonies hate us, why do we get pretty much a 100% turn out whenever we hold our Commonwealth Games? I think you will find that the vast majority of our former colonies are on very good terms with us.

Originally posted by IAF101
You should ask yourself what the HELL were you doing when Germany defied all your sanctions against it after WW1 and started building up for another onslaught.?

- This is deeply sad and ignorant.

The 'sanctions' were not 'ours' but supposedly the 'world's'.

Had you President Wilson actually stuck to his original (reasonable and 'fair) 'points' we might not have seen a WW2.
As it was a combination of greed, vengence and stupidity - however understandable - and Wilson's weakness meant that the 'Treaty of Versailles' was always likely to lead to yet more European trouble.....this is particularly tragic given that one of the reasons why the US (as a relatively detached participant) was accepted as a kind of arbitor by all in the final reckoning was it's supposed impartiality.

It would - of course - be wrong and stretching things too far to say WW2 was the USA's 'fault' but the USA had a definite and unique share of the responsibility for what later happened just like everyone else involved.

Ask yourself what were the British doing when germany occupied the Rine river territory

- Much the same as the US was doing I suppose.
For quite some time (especially after the castastrophe of the two depressions of the 1920's & the early 1930's) many in Europe (outside of France and Belgium) felt Germany had been treated excessively harshly and had suffered enough.

In recovering what was rightfully theirs anyway, 'we', like America did nothing.

....and when the people of the Saarland voted in independanty polls organised by the League of Nations to return to Germany what was anyone supposed to when faced by that?

But people were becoming 'concerned' and it was around this point that the modernisation and expansion of the RAF started (hardly something that could happen overnight, huh?).

what were you doing when germany occupied Austria?,

- As this occupation and subsequent amalgamation was followed by a genuine expression of welcome by the majority of Austrians - and formally agreed to by overwhelming support in the referendum vote - what could anyone do?

Again we did nothing as you did nothing. In early 1938 what could any one actually do but prey for more time?

What were the so called Empire doing when Germany occupied Czechoslovakia,

- Much to Hilter's annoyance we bought time. Sadly - very sadly for the Czechs - we had no alternative. Hitler is on record complaining that we thwarted his plan to get his war at that stage.

What were the British doing when Germany marched over Poland

- Actually we declared war on Germany at this point, along with France.

and France?/

- It obviously escaped your notice that the allied land forces at that time were effectively defeated and ejected from the continent - thankfully to some degree intact although minus their heavy weapons
due to the Dunkirk evacuation.

Nothing!! Thats what it was doing?? A country under sanctions and defeated after WW1 was trouping around europe taking over and the British just watched .

- You cheeky ignorant swine.

This sh*t during rememberance week!? ......tell me are you intending to wander along to a cemetary and p*ss on some WW1 & 2 veteran's graves whilst you rave on with this deeply offensive, idiotic and ignorant garbage.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

The nazis in Germany cynically exploited the aftermath of WW1; whatever justified grievances Germany had at her treatment by the western allies regarding the 1919 formal Armistice agreement (and she had many legitmate ones.....that armistice was turned into a total surrender).

Britain like many in the rest of the world was trying to reach just and sustainable conclusions. Genuinely having to experience and deal with a modern educated first world developed country litterally taken over by aggressive maniacal lunatic psychopaths was a very new experience and a huge shock for everyone.

How dare you claim all those lives were lost and all those people injured because you imagine people did 'nothing'.

Only when the started bombing your houses did you wake up and put up a pathetic fight!

- This is just stupid, wrong and again a grevious insult to those who suffered and died in the fighting right from the start. Brits fought in Norway long before the Battle of France itself. You really have no clue, do you?
The BEF went to Europe long before the 'Battle of Britain'.

....and by the way many brave UK volunteers went off to war to fight fascism in the Spainish civil war long before WW2.

There was a fight put up alright, you don't appear to know the half of it.

As for referring to the fight as 'pathetic', again this is shameful ignorance......hey, why not look up one of the surviving US volunteers who fought with the RAF in the 'BoB' and explain your theories to him.....and then see how many seconds your front teeth remain firmly attached to your ignorant head.

After america got involved we (i.e General Eisenhower ) started an effecrtive plan to counter the Nazi war machine!

- Eisenhower was a great man, I agree.
But to claim he won the war was something he would never claim in all of his life.....so what makes you think you are qualified to say something he never would have done?

IF you call that ruling the skies then maybe even Iceland could have overthrown the luftwaffe!

- Again insulting, risible and deeply sad.

The RAF defeated the Luftwaffe in the 'BoB', no question.

The Germans might even have won it at one stage (had they not changed tactics and switched away from attacking the airfields to the city of London, who knows?) but nevertheless they did not.

For all their material advantage in numbers we had radar, a force multiplier for which they had no answer.

There was never any prospect of the Luftwaffe defeating the RAF after September 1940. We held on.....and that was all we had to do. That was our victory and their defeat.

After Sept 1940 the tech advantage we had meant that even their night bombing of Britain petered out becoming sporadic, ultimately ineffectual and in the end far too costly for them to sustain.

No question, Britain truely did win that one.....and all on our own at that.

Now f*ck off and troll some where else you insulting idiotic goon.

God save the Queen? Indeedy.



[edit on 13-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]