Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV


Since the late-eighties/early nineties the latest Sukhois and MiGs/MAPOs have been rated as able to kill Hornets and a step ahead of Tomcat. Don't forget how old the American fleet is. Gone are the days when PLAAF guys didn't wear pressure suits or have simulators.

Although they are good at those air-to-air intercepts where you use yourself instead of a missile...

^^^ that to against recon aircraft!!

Lol,that guy must have been a newbie,he must be on weed or something

He's a national hero!

If I'd known it was that easy to be a national hero I would have driven my 240Z off a cliff years ago!

Originally posted by W4rl0rD

For a start,try the LCA,which is just a modified mirage 2000

[edit on 2/11/04 by W4rl0rD]

baseless posts will only cause another slugfeast.
Please do try and be more prudent while posting

Howlrunner, The jet engine was first truely invented by a british engineer and pilot. I forgot his name, but I know he was british. He technically started the research before German Scientists did, only German Scientists finished their product first.

And if you say that the Germans invented all those things and the Americans copied it because they implemented it into their aircraft, you are totally wrong.

By your logic, I am prohibited to design a completely new aircraft, using new avionics, and new propulsion, new weapons, new everything if it has swept wings or delta wings, otherwise it would be a copy.

The Americans used one idea, and implemented it into their aircraft, does not make them copies.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Howlrunner, The jet engine was first truely invented by a british engineer and pilot. I forgot his name, but I know he was british. He technically started the research before German Scientists did, only German Scientists finished their product first.

And if you say that the Germans invented all those things and the Americans copied it because they implemented it into their aircraft, you are totally wrong.

By your logic, I am prohibited to design a completely new aircraft, using new avionics, and new propulsion, new weapons, new everything if it has swept wings or delta wings, otherwise it would be a copy.

The Americans used one idea, and implemented it into their aircraft, does not make them copies.

Shattered OUT...

You are looking for the name 'Frank Whittle', who built the first jet engine in the 1930s and flew the first jet powered aircraft on 15th May 1941. The US then asked for the engine, and a team was sent to the US to brief General Electric, as well as a completed engine. The Germans lagged the British by a number of years.

It isnt right to say that US aircraft are copies, but it has to be said that Nazi Germany came up with a fantastic number of firsts in the field of aviation and it went without saying that a lot of countries followed the same paths afterward.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
By your logic, I am prohibited to design a completely new aircraft, using new avionics, and new propulsion, new weapons, new everything if it has swept wings or delta wings, otherwise it would be a copy.

No, that's your logic. If you want my logic then re-read the post a little more carefully. The man's name you can't remember is Sir Frank Whittle.

The British have a history of invention. The steam engine. The triple-expansion steam engine, the steam turbine, the screw-propellor, the gas turbine (jet) engine. All of which have been copied by the rest of the world. No-one says anything about US ships being pathetic copies. No-one says anything about German ships being pathetic copies. Why should it be said about one nation's aircraft?

Is every vehicle getting around with motive power from Rudy Deisel's baby a pathetic copy?

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

The British have a history of invention. The steam engine. The triple-expansion steam engine, the steam turbine, the screw-propellor, the gas turbine (jet) engine. All of which have been copied by the rest of the world. No-one says anything about US ships being pathetic copies. No-one says anything about German ships being pathetic copies. Why should it be said about one nation's aircraft?

What are you? a commie??
What has been China' s contribution in terms of tech to the world of air superiority?
If your sole criteria is to get as many planes into your airforce as possible then I'd say Chinese were doing a good job- but as far as innovation goes -NADA.
All the rest of the air forces( or rather air- farces) out there just want to match up to the USAF can't they do better??
The first Stealth plane the F-117a "night hawk " was launched decades ago, it was a giant leap in air force history but no other nation can still figure it out properly to make a working model- Simple lack of initiative!
Sure you could say that the US was at war (cold) with the USSR and we stole it out of a Soviet scientific journal but still we had the initiative to go through with it and developed it to its present form.


[edit on 8-11-2004 by IAF101]

^^^ Where are you from and what does IAF101 stand for in your case?

I think he's from cloud cuckoo land and IAF stands for 'I am fick'

Originally posted by IAF101
What are you? a commie??

whats wrong with being a commie? even though china is not comunist.

If your sole criteria is to get as many planes into your airforce as possible then I'd say Chinese were doing a good job- but as far as innovation goes -NADA.

really? this is comeing from the country that stole the tech from germany and claimed it as thiers?

All the rest of the air forces( or rather air- farces) out there just want to match up to the USAF can't they do better??

well since when do most airforces have enemy's that actually want to go to war hmmm i can name 1 it begins with a U and ends with an S

The first Stealth plane the F-117a "night hawk " was launched decades ago, it was a giant leap in air force history but no other nation can still figure it out properly to make a working model- Simple lack of initiative!
Sure you could say that the US was at war (cold) with the USSR and we stole it out of a Soviet scientific journal but still we had the initiative to go through with it and developed it to its present form.

uhh dude we can, see after a while of inventing stuff and giveing it ot other countries we decided to let some one else build it then get the tech and upgrade it.
yeah with russian engineers and lots of money that could have saved a lot of lives.

Okay its agreed that copies of earlier models aren't necessarily bad. But what about the chinese aircraft? Are they essentially pathetic copies or improved versions? Theres not much to go about in terms of info w.r.t. chinese built/modified aircraft in the last cpl of decades. Too much secrecy and false info campaigns which leads to ambiguity.

I think its high time China put up its goods for show, i.e. let them be open to international scrutiny and observation. It'll do them more good than harm

Originally posted by Daedalus3
But what about the chinese aircraft? Are they essentially pathetic copies or improved versions?

They are licenced to China from Russia. So China isn't copying Russian aircraft, they are building Russian aircraft. With some adjustments of course.

I really don't understand why so many of you are getting your panties in a bunch over China and it's aircraft and how unoriginal they are. You might as well complain about every other country that's flying U.S. and Russian aircraft, insted of making there own.

Unless i'm missing something on this subject. I just don't see what's the big deal about China's aircraft.

Yes you are missing something...Okay so the US copied aircraft from the NAZIs etc etc..but those aircraft have proven themselves to be betterment of technology. However w.r.t. China there lies the ambiguity about what they are doing to those aircraft and how those modifications will help. The problem is that ,lack of information or misinformation that is there on chinese modifications, causes such threads to exist....
Hell ya even India has licensing from Russia. But since their tech info is comparatively transparent there can be appreciation and critiscism both.Also those modifications made by the Indians are repeatedly tried and tested against western counterparts (AF exercises etc.)
Can't say the same for the chinese. hence one must wonder if their copies are good, bad or ugly

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Daedalus3]

IAF,

Two things I'm not: one is communist the other is stupid. Stupid and ignorant. Okay, three things I'm not. Communist, stupid, ignorant or...

Among the things I am not are such elements as communist, stupid, ignorant or insulting.

Oh, wait. Apparently I am all those things.

I am a commie because I know a little world-tech history? This would be part of the "You're either with us or against us" philosophy that's proven SO popular around the world recently.

Suggest you re-read some of my other posts before you begin labeling me as the political agenda I find the second most offensive.

Originally posted by IAF101

The first Stealth plane the F-117a "night hawk " was launched decades ago, it was a giant leap in air force history but no other nation can still figure it out properly to make a working model- Simple lack of initiative!

Actually its more of a case of noone wants to spend the rediculous amount of money it would cost to create a stealth fighter. The main blocker in creating a F-117 was computer power to determine the best angle of all the surfaces, and the same is still true today. We have more computer power available, so we can work with smaller surfaces and now curves, hence the F-22. It still requires an immense amount of computing power tho, and that still costs a lot of money, tho it is available to whomever wants to stump up the cash.

The US is the only country in the world now that even considers spending $300million on a single fighter, when that money will go toward 3 or 4 quite adequete aircraft and go into other projects as well. Its simple economics - the US has always centered its military budget in the middle of its economy, hence the massive spending.

D3 I am actually quite found of the Chinese MiG copies ....but then I am fond of the classics.

I do find some of thier derivatives quite ugly, like the Su Flagons were...I do like the Fantan though.

Thier Flankers and J-10 have goodlines.

But I cant comment on what they can do and to whom. Perhaps they have been the only ones smart enough to keep thier mouths shut. I dont know.

We do know they are good at ramming turbo props however....Sorry couldnt resist.

Lets hope we dont find out.

interesting post,

I believe that those chinese aircrafts are copied from US or Russian designs without the core technologies, manuals, parts and stuff, so I don't see any problem with that...it is a difference between a client computer and a server. Why are you so pissed off?

I always thought F15 got some design inspiration from Soviet fighters.

Originally posted by craigandrew


But I cant comment on what they can do and to whom. Perhaps they have been the only ones smart enough to keep thier mouths shut. I dont know.

We do know they are good at ramming turbo props however....Sorry couldnt resist.

.

Nobody can resist on that point!!

And we don't need to fid out by warfare. A simple jioint exercise will do

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
IAF,

Two things I'm not: one is communist the other is stupid. Stupid and ignorant. Okay, three things I'm not. Communist, stupid, ignorant or...

Among the things I am not are such elements as communist, stupid, ignorant or insulting.

Very nice, made me smile. I wasn't expecting........................that

Originally posted by craigandrew
We do know they are good at ramming turbo props however....Sorry couldnt resist.

Just a nitpick... If you are referring to kamakazi pilots, that was Japanese, not Chinese. Unless the Chinese did that too and I am unaware.