All chinese aircrafts are pathetic copies

Originally posted by taibunsuu
As much as Chinese aircraft are copies, I can guarantee that if anyone here had the finances to get rated on one of these fighters, buy one, and maintain it, they would do so.

That is, unless you're like the Russian immigrant who invented the magnetic data strip. He owns and flies an F-16.

I think I'd have to go with a twin engine aircraft....

God knows I'd find a way to # up one of them

The fact that civilians can own and operate custom models of F-16s (no guns, no weapons hardpoints, no targeting system) is the biggest motivator for me to be a multi-millionaire.

Can you imagine going on a flight in your two-seat F-16 with your friend or loved one?

Burn down the runway on afterburner then pull up and accelerate in a viking takeoff.

That'd be so sweet.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Why cant aircraft projects be patented ????????????

Hahahahaha....

Erm...wow......maybe because the lawyers have guns?

Originally posted by roniii259
It is funny that people say that the US started out copying designs for our aircraft, but we didnt. Sure after WW2 we tested German fighters and missiles, bu instead of outright copying it we modified our fighters with the tech( air plane engines, swept wings) but the airframe was new.

In chronological order:

1) America had no air force before WW2. Well...they did...but the technology behind it was nothing short of pathetic.
2) The actual USAAF was formed in 1941.
3) The American planes were inferior to the planes of the West.
4) American planes were up against # planes anyway (until the Japanese invented the highly manuevarable Zero)
5) Nazi Germany fell
6) America copied the technology behind Nazi planes (one of B-2's grandpas, Whitworth, was admitted to be a copy of the Horton HO, but in those days "copying" was substituted with the word "counter" ).
7) Since this is a conspiracy forum, I might as well say that there are plenty of sites around the internet that claim that America's black projects are primarily powered by the thinking of Nazi scientists.

In fact, if you guys are going to ramble on about copying, here's a perfect example; the B-2, the pride and joy of the USAF, strange that it's strikingly similar to Horton 229 (the Horton is the plane behind the B-2 in the following pics):




As for Chinese planes being copies, I think it's all because of the lack of military funding in previous years. Until recently, the Chinese military budget has been relatively low. Only now has the military budget began to surprise the West. Now given that their military spending has boomed, I think they'll be shelling out something worthwhile in the near future. Their military spending is what? Second greatest in the world (don't take my word for it, I have horrible memory ).

One also needs to consider China's goals. Are they trying to gain air superiority? The fact of the matter is no. The Chinese military is supposedly a defensive military or so they claim. Their neighbors are little or no threat at all. Russia is deteriorating and has few troops stationed and ready to face conflict in Siberia, India has been crushed in the past and has too many internal issues to be able to even beat the fledgling Pakistan, Japan has a limited military due to post-WW2 treaties, and basically all the countries surrounding China are 3rd world (excluding Taiwan, Japan, and Russia). Unless there was a major threat (for example, terrorism), which there isn't, then there's simply no need to gain the upper hand in the air.

Of course, it seems that China is pursuing an aggressive stance as of lately be it conquering more territory or increasing its military budget. They could possibly be defending their right over Taiwan though. Most of the Communist leadership is speculating that the current president of Taiwan hopes to declare leadership soon.

[edit on 17-10-2004 by Blackout]

My two bits...
China copies. Okay we got it. Some of you take it personally. Okay we got it. Let's look at the whole thing in a more strategic light. Here's what I think. China has, in the last decade or so, decided to improve it's indigenous weapons manufacturing capability and the quality of it's military's equipment. They've used a very effective way of doing this using their particular strengths. Those strengths are an ability to reverse engineer and ability to focus on a given task with maximum resources unlike most other nations. So basically what they've done is decide to be a manufacturer of high tech, high quality low price aircraft. They're strategy is smart and simple. Start out with licence/ reverse engineered copies as well as modifications to those designs then move on to new designs in collaberation with existing foreign aircraft designers/manufacturers. This is where they are now.(J-10 and JF-17 which is a continuation of the mig-33 project, not a Mig-21/J-7 development) I think the next step will probably be development of a completely indigenous airframe with some foreign parts.(engine? Electronics?) Possibly the J12/XXJ.
What do you think?

My two bits...
China copies. Okay we got it. Some of you take it personally. Okay we got it. Let's look at the whole thing in a more strategic light. Here's what I think. China has, in the last decade or so, decided to improve it's indigenous weapons manufacturing capability and the quality of it's military's equipment. They've used a very effective way of doing this using their particular strengths. Those strengths are an ability to reverse engineer and ability to focus on a given task with maximum resources unlike most other nations. So basically what they've done is decide to be a manufacturer of high tech, high quality low price aircraft. They're strategy is smart and simple. Start out with licence/ reverse engineered copies as well as modifications to those designs then move on to new designs in collaberation with existing foreign aircraft designers/manufacturers. This is where they are now.(J-10 and JF-17 which is a continuation of the mig-33 project, not a Mig-21/J-7 development) I think the next step will probably be development of a completely indigenous airframe with some foreign parts.(engine? Electronics?) Possibly the J12/XXJ.
What do you think?

Originally posted by roniii259

Originally posted by drunk
If all aircrafts made by China are pathetic copies then it means that the originals are pathetic.

yes, because all the planes the Chinese copy are the Russian planes or bad copies of bad copies of US fighters. Now thats silly isnt it?

well then this thread is nonsense in my view.

Even so i wouldn't want to be a pilot flying into battle against a squadron of these. It's advanced enough to handle just about anything in their region, so it does the job it's meant to do.

Originally posted by Prismatic
Even so i wouldn't want to be a pilot flying into battle against a squadron of these. It's advanced enough to handle just about anything in their region, so it does the job it's meant to do.

Hey those things ain't proven yet! Thats been built out of one of the block A F-16s 'lent' buy the pakis and they've mixed up a lot of Su features (canards for example). Don't know where they got the delta wing design..Hey! maybe its original!! Not!
And another thing, they are defeinitely not "advanced enough to handle just about anything in their region" !
The main fuselage is definitely F-16 derived, and that too from the ones the pakis have.

Btw still the US supports Pakistan. Even after they sold nuke tech to NK !! Why??
Its either utter stupidity or highly twisted ulterior motives

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by Prismatic
Even so i wouldn't want to be a pilot flying into battle against a squadron of these. It's advanced enough to handle just about anything in their region, so it does the job it's meant to do.

Hey those things ain't proven yet! Thats been built out of one of the block A F-16s 'lent' buy the pakis and they've mixed up a lot of Su features (canards for example). Don't know where they got the delta wing design..Hey! maybe its original!! Not!

And another thing, they are defeinitely not "advanced enough to handle just about anything in their region" !
The main fuselage is definitely F-16 derived, and that too from the ones the pakis have.

Btw still the US supports Pakistan. Even after they sold nuke tech to NK !! Why??

Its either utter stupidity or highly twisted ulterior motives

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Daedalus3]

While it isn't "proven" it's likely to be a very impressive aircraft with both Israel and Russia competing to sell them radar equipment and Russia helping them with other aspects of it's design. Both countries both have a good record for making aircraft systems and I'm sure China will learn much from making this fighter.

www.sinodefence.com...

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Prismatic]

That plane has NOT been built out of an F-16, and where you get Sukhoi from god knows. It is a new build aircraft that is very closely based on the Israeli IAI Lavi fighter which was cancelled before it flew. The prototype however was virtually complete and China may well have bought that. IAI designed the Lavi with assistance from General Dynamics which explains the resemblamce to the F-16 in the fuaselage area. It is most closely comparable with the SAAB Gripen in terms of tech and capability which aint bad from a country that was churning out MiG 21's until recently.



[edit on 20-10-2004 by waynos]

Originally posted by roniii259
It is funny that people say that the US started out copying designs for our aircraft, but we didnt.

- You did. Just like everyone else did too.

The Messerschmitt and Focke Wulf high speed wing designs became the basis for the Sabre and Mig 15 wings.

Same with their afterburning high thrust jet axial-flow engines. Everybody had a long hard look and took it from there.



[edit on 20-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by roniii259
It is funny that people say that the US started out copying designs for our aircraft, but we didnt.

- You did. Just like everyone else did too.

The Messerschmitt and Focke Wulf high speed wing designs became the basis for the Sabre and Mig 15 wings.

Same with their afterburning high thrust jet axial-flow engines. Everybody had a long hard look and took it from there.



[edit on 20-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Even the F-117a was actually made from a paper published by a soviet scientist on radar avoidance design.
Also the Indian Air Force supposedly has some thing called the LCA. Looks some thing like the the J-8.
Also look at this Saab, striking resemblance isn't it?

Lavi transferred to China?

Well a little tech-transfer it gives the war-pervs the chance carry on convincing the gullible that 'they're catching up!' and 'we're under threat!'.....and carry on milking the tax-payer to record amounts in the process.

It's one hell of a game!

(by the way where are the endless ravings from the usual crowd (you know who you are) about Israel - supposedly the USA's greatest ally in return for the USA being their greatest ally - giving a potentially hostile nation such high-tech? Suckers. )





[edit on 20-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

When I said 'cancelled before it flew', I should of course said 'before it entered service'. My mistake.

Lest anyone doubt the Israeli influence on the J-10 compare the picture of it a few posts up with this one of the Lavi prototype.



Note especially the wing profile which is completely unique top these two aircraft and the fin and canard profiles. The J-10 has a different intake but is otherwise largely the same.

I agree with the comments about the USA's so called ally and I don't know what they see in the country, but thats another debate.

Originally posted by waynos
I agree with the comments about the USA's so called ally and I don't know what they see in the country, but thats another debate.

USA 's suppoet to pakistan is a reflection of its double standards on terrorism.Pakistan has been sponsporing cross- border terrorism against india for a decade, yet the USA finds supporting Pakistan a way to check india , as it sees a potential superpower in india.

Also the US is very uncomfortable with india's proximity to russia

Originally posted by IAF101
Also the Indian Air Force supposedly has some thing called the LCA. Looks some thing like the the J-8.

HRER you go : www.geocities.com...

This is an unupdated site. The LCA is now named "tejas" and is close to being inducted into the air force. Indians have boldly claimed that the "LCA has more advanced technology than JAS- 39 Gripen and as much advanced technology as the Typhoon."

LCA image gallery : spacetrans.tripod.com...

Originally posted by waynos
When I said 'cancelled before it flew', I should of course said 'before it entered service'. My mistake.

Waynos. The pic you posted was actually the third Lavi built, and the only one built after the project was cancelled. It was built as a technology demonstrator. (see the TD on the tail?) Just to clear that up.

The US pumped $2Bn. into the Lavi program before it was cancelled. There were 2 prototypes built during the program.

The J-10 most likely did start out as an attempt to reverse engineer a Pakistani F-16A, but there is no solid evidence of that in the public domain. But there are many things that indicate that is what took place. wink, wink. Anyway, China had problems, and the project was shelved. IIRC, in 1988 or 89, Israel set up an office in China, and the Lavi engineers went to China to revive the J-10 project. In any case, Israel transfered the Lavi design to China (without US consent), and that is the J-10 today.

Reports from China say that the WS10-A engine problems are sorted out, so the AL-31F will not be used in the J-10. After the test crash with the WS-10, China realized that a single engine AC is not a good engine testbed. They jerked out one AL-31F and stuck the WS-10A into an SU-27 for further testing. Incidentally, the WS-10A is reported to have TVC, so if that is the case, the J-10 should be very a maneuverable AC.

Isreal has been selling China technology for years... in fact they are the single biggest arm's contributer after the russians.

just look at these articles

www.rense.com...

english.people.com.cn...

www.china.org.cn...

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.ifamericansknew.org...

Man the israelis are surely after cash. i wonder what the us is doing to check these israeli practises.

Is Israel getting the JSF. Man it worries me.

I wonder if the have leaked some stuff on the F-15 .

China needs it for its J-12