The whole aircraft copying thing is only the tip of the iceberg.

99.999999999999% of stuff that are made in china are copied.
That's an indication of suckerhood

So much for china and superpowerhood, competing with the US, and all the hype

Yeah, all they need is an American more interested in$$ than national interests and they can probably run out a "knock off" of Raptor within the a decade. And btw they can be innovative and progress with a design not originally thiers.

Thier A-5 Fantans for example or some of the planes they have developed from the Mig -21 so much you can't recognise them.

Yes the USA has the brains and budget and technology to develop super fighters, the chinese just have the smarts to save thier R&D dollars by copying it, then modify it for local conditions.

As to planes developed in international co-operation. Hawker P.????>Hawker Kestrel > BAe Harrier > MCD/BAE Harrier II

Mustang. British Purchasing Commission wanting licensed P-40s. Talked into giving NA a chance to design its own. Mustang with Allison. Test examples to USAAC. Mustang I to RAF. RAF fit Merlin to Mustang. NA starts producing Merlin P-51s.

EE Canberra. Beats US tenders for USAF order. license to Martin. Built, modified adapted as B-57 Marauder.

Raytheon T-6 Texan II developed from Swiss Pilatus PC-9
MCD T-45 Goshawk developed from BAe Hawk

Its 1941 all over again. Japanese cant produce first class planes, only old cheap inferior knock offs of obsolete American and European types.....whoops sorry A6M Zeros! Where they come from?
Why werent we told. Oh we had intelligence from observers in China but we chose not to believe it? Oh Darn!
Oh by the way are Chinese also too near sighted to be good pilots, or have no sense of balance from being carried on the backs of thier mothers as babies?

Originally posted by craigandrew
Yeah, all they need is an American more interested in$$ than national interests and they can probably run out a "knock off" of Raptor within the a decade. And btw they can be innovative and progress with a design not originally thiers.

I highly doubt that, the Chinese havent even copied the F-15 or the F-14 which they can easily buy from Iran and copy, and they would need an accual Raptor intact with blue prints & they wont because 1) we wont give it to them and 2) we are not going to sell it to anyother country that might give it away.

Even if they got a Raptor, the Chinese technology couldnt understand or copy it. They would need experience with advanced RAm, would need to develop higher composite materials, get better computers ( like advance in compute terms aabout 20 years), develop computational fluid dynamics for the supercruise engine, develop complex programs to determine stealth, construct a secure data link, learn how to make an LPI radar, ect ect. The Raptor does not work at all with the Chinese philosophy of massive numbers, so they wont copy it.

It was tongue in cheek. The Chinese might not even think they need a an F-15 or F-14. They have probably got a look at some (ex Iranian F-14s and the Israelis are pretty good at not telling you what they dont want you to know......"Now how did an F-15 get there??, we thought it crashed into the Negev Desert.Silly Us")

Likewise they might not think they need to get their hands on a Raptor or JSF......Hee, hee. The arrogance of the West might just prompt them to build thier own. The Zero of 21st Century....."they can't build that!....thier...not as smart as us"

Has Raptor deployed or even visited outside of US Airspace yet?
Wouldnt that be a kicker. A nine figure super fighter that your scared to let outside your boarders in case it crashes and some else gets to the parts first.....maybe there is hope for world peace

The Chinese are upto building the J-12, a competior for the F-22 . So i reckon the just cant wait to get their hands on the raptor and copy that too

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I have to say im amazed at the amount of copies that come out of China. The rip off of the GM Hummer took the cake im my book. I can understand stealing a planes design but a Truck Its not really hard to design a military truck its not rocket science.

Here you go :

Found some info





"Additionally, the Shenyang Aircraft Factory (SAC) is marketing a new light combat vehicle nearly identical to the U.S. General Motors M998 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle. Nicknamed the "Hummer" in the United States, the SAC version is called "Zhanshen," for God of War. In the U.S. army, the Hummer succeeded the vererable JEEP and is now used for diverse missions like antitank, air defense, communications, medical evacuation and transport. SAC hopes that PLA Special Forces and Airborne forces will buy the Zhanshen. If adopted more widely in the PLA ground forces, it would accelerate the trend toward lighter and more mobile combat units."

-From source

There is a school of thought that says if you are homing in on an optimal design.. say in this case the optimal plane.. that the designs will tend to converge so in the end there is only one optimal design, leaving no or little room for variance.

Still have a valid point though suggesting they all look alike..

If all aircrafts made by China are pathetic copies then it means that the originals are pathetic.

US is the world's richest country. Of course it will have better aircraft than China can produce. That's not brain surgery.

US GDP is 10.99 trillion

Chinese GDP is 6.449 trillion

What's important is that the nation has the integral ability to produce its own aircraft. Since the US has the world's best aircraft, why put billions of dollars into developing something better, when you can simply copy a design and get something almost as good?

Originally posted by drunk
If all aircrafts made by China are pathetic copies then it means that the originals are pathetic.

yes, because all the planes the Chinese copy are the Russian planes or bad copies of bad copies of US fighters. Now thats silly isnt it?

Originally posted by craigandrew

Has Raptor deployed or even visited outside of US Airspace yet?
Wouldnt that be a kicker. A nine figure super fighter that your scared to let outside your boarders in case it crashes and some else gets to the parts first.....maybe there is hope for world peace

umm can i ask has the j10 been deployed outside china?
also the reason the raptor hasnt been out is because ITS JUST IN SERVICE. now is the USAF going to send a fighter that many of its pilots havnt got used to to some country like iraq? no its still in the first stages.

The new military budget allows for 24 new Raptors. There is also a test flight squad in service. Don't expect the raptor to see any combat within the next year or two, barring major conflict.

And in thier day a lot of fighters deployed o/s to prove they could in thier development phase, even if just to an airshow to show thier allies what they were going to kick butt with.

Why not the Raptor? Or Osprey for that matter?


And I was referring to the US. China is not noted for deploying thier new aircraft often, and neither did the soviets until they started hunting for hard cash in the 80s.

With US aircraft it almost seemed mandatory.

Cheers!

[edit on 16-10-2004 by craigandrew]

Originally posted by craigandrew
Why not the Raptor?

cause theres only like 24 in service right now.

Or Osprey for that matter?

cause it crashes too much.

Originally posted by craigandrew
And in thier day a lot of fighters deployed o/s to prove they could in thier development phase, even if just to an airshow to show thier allies what they were going to kick butt with.

Why not the Raptor? Or Osprey for that matter?

Well, first off the cold war is over. We don't need to prove anything anymore, because we are clearly the greatest power on earth. The Raptor is also in very smal numbers right now - just one operational test flight squadrn in service right now. So why would we put a billion dollars of our best aircraft over seas when we don't have any to keeo at home?

Also, the raptor is still under testing, so we want to keep those results to or self - you know, national security and all.

As for the osprey, it isn't doing so wel, and I don't believ that it is even in use yet.

Why cant aircraft projects be patented ????????????

As much as Chinese aircraft are copies, I can guarantee that if anyone here had the finances to get rated on one of these fighters, buy one, and maintain it, they would do so.

That is, unless you're like the Russian immigrant who invented the magnetic data strip. He owns and flies an F-16.