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Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Muaddib, who are you calling a serial killer? I have never killed anyone. Clarify your accusation that I am a serial killer!!!!!
They are going for their own nuclear program and own nukes, they're not going to take substitutes.
Too many states have shown that the only way to achieve national self-determination is by attaining nukes.
They are not going to be deterred by peaceful means. They are aiming for diplomatic recognition as a country without outside changes imposed on them and it seems nukes are the only way. Things are now coming to a head, either they will get them or we have a war with Iran.
Originally posted by Bout Time
No one feels Iran to be a threat outside of Rove Republicans & Israel....which is saying the same thing.
Tehran, Iran, Sep. 19 (UPI) -- Iran Sunday dismissed the U.N. nuclear watchdog's demand to freeze uranium enrichment, saying the country would not accept any obligation as the process was a right respected by the Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Originally posted by Kwintz
This is why i believe Bush would be better for the job the next 4 years. I don't want an indecisive man such as Kerry in office while NK and Iran have nuclear weapons. Call me an arrogant american, but i don't want my country being pushed around by anyone, let alone rogue nations. Bush is firm and strong, and i think he could more successfully handle this nuclear situation--pre-emptive "isreali" strikes will happen very soon, IMO.
Originally posted by Muaddib
Or is this merely another democrat/liberal spin on this story?... trying to make people think the US and Israel are the only ones who don't want a nuclear Iran?...
[edit on 4-10-2004 by Muaddib]
Originally posted by upuaut
Excuse me: I am unclear on exactly how you perceive Iran as pushing you around?
Last time I checked, it is our country (the US of A) that has been doing all the pushing around in the Middle East, either directly or through our client state, Israel.
U.
Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Sorry Muaddib, after reading your post again I see that you should have placed a comma after the you in your sentence. The absence of the comma changes the meaning of your comment.
Originally posted by Muaddib
Originally posted by upuaut
Excuse me: I am unclear on exactly how you perceive Iran as pushing you around?
Last time I checked, it is our country (the US of A) that has been doing all the pushing around in the Middle East, either directly or through our client state, Israel.
U.
Do tell us upuaut, since when was the US alone on the war in Afgahnistan and IRaq? wasn't there a coalition that was first brought together under Clinton to deal with Saddam, even by force if necessary?
I guess there is no coalition in Iraq right now, or before...
Originally posted by upuaut
My point was that we are doing far more pushing around in the region than Iran is. Did you not get that point? I tried to make it clear...
...........
If you can make a case that Iran is doing more 'pushing around' than we are, be my guest. Otherwise, perhaps you will allow my comment to Kwintz to stand?
U.
Iran Threatens the West
In recent weeks, prominent Iranian figures have issued statements against the West, both within the government and in the newspapers close to the regime. These statements include threats to U.S. and European interests and targets throughout the world. The following is a collection of recent threats and is part of a comprehensive report on Iran's nuclear policy, to be published soon:
"Today we have in our possession long-range smart missiles which can reach many of the interests and vital resources of the Americans and of the Zionist regime in our region. Thus, if the enemies show stupidity and make any mistake towards Iran, [Iran] will certainly use all the means and capabilities at its disposal.
"Today we enjoy high deterrent ability, and if the enemy acts in madness and wants to try his luck, he will, as the leader said, quickly see his black fate, and will regret acting against Iran's Islamic regime." [4]
"the White House's 80 years of exclusive rule are likely to become 80 seconds of hell that will burn to ashes. Those who resist Iran will be struck from directions they never expected."
To these facts add that an Arab newspaper published in London and Beirut reported that an Iranian intelligence unit has established a center called "The Brigades of the Shahids of the Global Islamic Awakening," controlled by a Revolutionary Guards intelligence officer, Hassan Abbasi. The newspaper has a tape recording of Abbasi when he spoke of Iran's secret plans, which include "a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization."
To bring this about, Abbasi said, "There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them." This Revolutionary Guard officer continued by saying, "Iran's missiles are now ready to strike at Western targets, and as soon as the instructions arrive from Ali Khamenei, we will launch our missiles at their cities and installations."
Originally posted by Muaddib
i see, so do tell me how has the US pushed Iran exactly into claiming they will destroy western civilization?
"Today we have in our possession long-range smart missiles which can reach many of the interests and vital resources of the Americans and of the Zionist regime in our region. Thus, if the enemies show stupidity and make any mistake towards Iran, [Iran] will certainly use all the means and capabilities at its disposal.
"Today we enjoy high deterrent ability, and if the enemy acts in madness and wants to try his luck, he will, as the leader said, quickly see his black fate, and will regret acting against Iran's Islamic regime." [4]
Note Iran states the west as the enemy.
"the White House's 80 years of exclusive rule are likely to become 80 seconds of hell that will burn to ashes. Those who resist Iran will be struck from directions they never expected."
The Iranian government has clearly gone beyond saying they are protecting themselves with these threats....those who resist Iran will be struck from directions they never expected....
Tell me, are they saying in the above that they will attack the west only if they are attacked?....or are they saying they are waiting for the signal to attack?.... This is clearly indicating they plan on attacking the west no matter what.
Originally posted by upuaut
Before we delve into your excerpts, I will point out to you that my point, which you seem to continue to ignore, referred to a precise post made by Kwintz in which he claimed Iran was pushing the US around.
Originally posted by upuaut
You can read as well as I can, I imagine. No, in that particular excerpt, they are not saying they will attack only if attacked first, but that does not equate to saying the opposite.
Yes, they say they are waiting on a signal to attack, just as the US nuclear deterrent arsenals have been for fifty odd years. Is this a clear indication that the US plans to fire nuclear missiles no matter what?
Please.
To bring this about, Abbasi said, "There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them." This Revolutionary Guard officer continued by saying, "Iran's missiles are now ready to strike at Western targets, and as soon as the instructions arrive from Ali Khamenei, we will launch our missiles at their cities and installations."
Originally posted by Muaddib
"Iran's missiles are now ready to strike at Western targets, and as soon as the instructions arrive from Ali Khamenei, we will launch our missiles at their cities and installations."
Originally posted by Muaddib
So...the threats that Iran has made throughout the years are no reason enough for you, and you find them as no reason for Iran pushing the US or the rest of the western world...
Originally posted by upuaut
What we are witnessing here is Iran going through a phase we should be familiar with: one triggered by our own failure to commit to demilitarization. The arms race we ran against the USSR, during which the statements Iran is now making were made by both sides more times than you could count, is now being reincarnated because we failed to uphold the non-proliferation principles as they should have applied to our client state, Israel, and have ourselves committed to developing so-called tactical nukes, which Bush rashly declared to the world he reserved the right to use in a non-deterrent scenario.
U.
Originally posted by Muaddib
"Our own failure to commit to demilitarization..."
So you want the US to have no military at all? no weapons at all?......
Originally posted by upuaut
No, I meant by demilitarization, the process of gradual disarment: the progressive dismantling of our incredibly excessive nuclear arsenal.
The Soviet Union tried to get us to agree to such a process before the Cold War was over, but we refused.
There was some hope the US would start playing ball in this process after the Cold War, but Bush has dashed all hopes of that happening any time soon. He has increased military spending even though the US spends more on its military than the next ten runners up combined, and has taken steps to start a new arms race which can only strengthen the resolve of nations such as Iran to acquire nuclear capabilities.
U.