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Photographic Evidence of Bullet Hole in JFK Limousine Windshield 'Hiding in Plain Sight'

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posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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by Douglas P. Horne


In 2009, I believed I had discovered new evidence in the JFK assassination never reported by anyone else: convincing photography of the through-and-through bullet hole in the windshield of the JFK limousine that had been reported by six credible witnesses. I revisited that evidence today, and am more convinced than ever that the bullet hole in the limousine windshield is what I am looking at in those images. But the readers of this piece don't have to take my word for it – you can examine the images yourself, and make up your own minds. The evidence is contained in one of the banned, suppressed episodes of Nigel Turner's The Men Who Killed Kennedy – episode 7 in the series, called "The Smoking Guns," which was aired in 2003, and then removed from circulation by The History Channel in response to intense political pressure by former LBJ aides Jack Valenti and Bill Moyers.

I'll tell you about the stunning evidence I have found in that episode at the end of this article, but first we need to set the stage by reviewing the eyewitness testimony about the damage to the windshield observed the day of JFK's assassination, on Friday, November 22nd, 1963; as well as three days later, on Monday, November 25th, 1963.



Photographic evidence of bullet hole in JFK limo


 

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edit on 5-6-2012 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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The irony would be that nether your post or the link provides any photographic evidence...




posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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Pics, otherwise it didn't happen

And I see no pics, just a long Amazon shopping list.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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Um..are you posting this as a teaser to try to sell your book?
If so you should probably review the T&C.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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I just came across this article.The author has discovered a bullet hole in JFK's limo.An interesting read seems that the bullet came from the overpass in front of the limo.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by mike dangerously
I just came across this article.The author has discovered a bullet hole in JFK's limo.An interesting read seems that the bullet came from the overpass in front of the limo.


An interesting read yes, but the read provides absolutely no tangible evidence (Your title suggests that you have photographic). All the article provides in the way of links is amazon books for sale....which we/you have no proof of having proof.

So where are the photos that are being talked about?
edit on 5-6-2012 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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Excellent documentation.. good find op



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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Lee Harvey Oswald was set up! He worked for CIA and was set up!



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by R_Clark
 


I see no documentation. If there is photographic proof of bullet holes in the windshield...I WANNA SEE THEM!!!!



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 01:43 AM
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Here is Jessie Venturas Video. A must see if you have not already.


Jessie Ventura's JFK assassination on Conspiracy Theory
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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Sorry to break it to you guys but a hole in the windshield is nothing new. In fact It's been a part of the case ever since there has been a case. Here's an image of the limousine after the assassination:





Hardly a "new discovery" here..
edit on 5-6-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 




Location: Everywhere Mood: Searching



the only irony is your supposedly everywhere in the mood for searching...

yet would not take the time to read the article or look into the facts..




posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by mileysubet
The irony would be that nether your post or the link provides any photographic evidence...



LOL, very well played. I have never heard of this, which doesn't surprise me, as I only know most of the stuff that has been mentioned over and over again. I do remember something about there being a commotion on the bridge ahead of the car after the shots were fired, which if correct could indicate this is where at least one shot was initiated. I wholeheartedly believe, after filling in some of the gaps in the evidence, that Oswald had absolutely nothing to do with the assassination of the former president. The whole Tippet body screwup, witnesses who claim Oswald was on another floor, etc, etc...

I would bet that it's likely there would have been multiple shooters in multiple positions. At least 2 shooters and 2 positions, not because they would have to decide the best place to shoot from, but because they would have to deal with people. They could not predict where the people would be gathered, therefore they had pre-planned shooting positions. I have never heard of this documentary, and if it is true that political pressure is why it was pulled, that is extremely significant. If the OP hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel, maybe this thread would contain some evidence. And I'm still mad that I can't find any pictures to prove there is a hole in the windshield.

Someone needs to look up whether they had ballistics glass on the front windshield at that time, and what caliber of rifle, and how much energy it would take to penetrate. This would tell us whether or not this is even plausible, or just someone trying to sell some books.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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He was ASSASSINATED by people who did not want to EVER be linked to the event. By people who COULD NOT be linked to the event for political reasons. If you watch the Jessie conspiracy video, you can see that the most likely suspects behind his assassination are all employed at the White house.

I would bet money that there was more then one shooter, 1 shooter = 50/50 chance of success, Two shooters = insurance.
edit on 06/05/12 ? by SickeningTruths because: (no reason given)


ps

I believe the name of the CIA, assassination group allegedly responsible for this was called "Op 40"
edit on 06/05/12 ? by SickeningTruths because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 

There are also the testimony and the notes of FBI agent Frazier, that did not used the word "hole" to describe the damages to the windshield:


Frazier later testified before the Warren Commission concerning his examination of the windshield:
Mr. Specter: Did you have occasion then to examine the windshield of the Presidential limousine?
Mr. Frazier: Yes; I did.
Mr. Specter: What did the examination disclose?
Mr. Frazier: On the inside surface of the windshield there was a deposit of lead. The deposit was located then you look at the inside surface of the windshield, 13 ½ inches down from the top, 23 inches from the left-hand side or driver’s side of the windshield, and was immediately in front of a small pattern of star-shaped cracks which appeared in the outer layer of the laminated windshield.
Mr. Dulles: What do you mean by “the outer layer of the laminated windshield?”
Mr. Frazier: The windshield is composed of two layers with a very thin layer of plastic in between which bonds them together in the form of safety glass. The inside layer of the glass was not broken, but the outside layer immediately on the outside of the lead residue had a very small pattern of cracks and there was a very minute particle of glass missing from the outside surface.
Mr. Dulles: And the outside surface was the surface away from where the occupants were sitting?
Mr. Frazier: That is correct; yes.
Mr. Dulles: And the inside surface was the surface nearest the occupants?
Mr. Frazier: Yes.
Mr. Specter: What do those characteristics indicate as to which side of the windshield was struck?
Mr. Frazier: It indicates that it could only have been struck on the inside surface. It could not have been struck on the outside surface because of the manner in which the glass broke and further because of the lead residue on the inside surface. The cracks appear in the outer layer of the glass because the glass is bent outward at the time of the impact which stretches the outer layer of the glass to the point where these small radial or wagon spoke-wagon wheel spoke-type cracks appear on the outer surface.
Mr. Dulles: So the pressure must have come from the inside and not from the outside against the glass?
Mr. Frazier: Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Dulles: As far as the car is concerned from the back to the front?
Mr. Frazier: Yes, sir.
Mr. Dulles: Not from outside against the glass — from the front against the glass.
Mr. Frazier: That is right. (5H68-69)


Although Frazier and his team found no evidence of a whole bullet impact, they did find two possible fragment impacts. First, they noted a dent in the rear-facing chrome strip above the windshield (Commission Exhibit 349). Second, they noted an impact area and lead smear on the inside of the windshield on the driver’s side (Commission Exhibit 350). Frazier took notes as he examined the limousine early on the morning of November 23rd. John Hunt has been kind enough to provide copies of these notes obtained while doing research in the Archives. The first summarizes what Frazier and his team found in their examination of the limousine:





Source: JFK Lancer Forum

The "no-hole in the windshield" theory is also explained in the conclusion below, taken from the JFK Lancer forum as well:


Charles Taylor has made clear that his use “of the word ‘hole’ to describe the flaw in the windshield was incorrect.”
It is not necessary to underline the lack of probative significance to be attached to the fragmentary reports of Freeman, Stavis and Glanges. Much of the windshield argument in the past has been based upon taking the absolute statements of casual observers like Freeman, Stavis and Glanges at face value and finding a contradiction between those statements and the reports of professional examiners. Of even less probative significance is the claim of a purported witness like Nick Principe who surfaces thirty-five years after the event on a conspiracy web site with a story contradicted by indisputable facts.
David Lifton first claimed in 1980 that there was some discrepancy between the report in Rowley’s letter that Special Officer Davis and SA Geis ran their hands over the outside of the windshield at the White House garage and found it “smooth and unbroken” and a March 1964 report from the FBI Lab that the windshield “contained no hole, only damage to the outside surface.” (Best Evidence, footnote, pp.369-370). Lifton goes on to point out that SA Roy Kellerman ran his hand over the outside surface on November 27, 1963 and also found it to be smooth. Lifton uses this to raise the question as to “whether the windshield on the limousine on November 22, 1963 was the same windshield sent to FBI Laboratory in March 1964.” (Ibid.) This “windshield switch theory” was then picked up by Fetzer in both Assassination Science and Murder in Dealey Plaza.
The simplest explanation for the alleged discrepancy is that the officers cited ran their hands over the outside surface of the windshield and felt it to be smooth, missing the relatively minor damage observed by Frazier in his examination of it early on November 23rd. Consider what this “damage on the outside surface” was. Frazier testified that there was “a very small pattern of cracks and there was a very minute particle of glass missing from the outside surface.”. His contemporaneous note speaks of a “minute fragment missing from outside.”
edit on 5-6-2012 by elevenaugust because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-6-2012 by elevenaugust because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by Rising Against
Sorry to break it to you guys but a hole in the windshield is nothing new. In fact It's been a part of the case ever since there has been a case. Here's an image of the limousine after the assassination:





Hardly a "new discovery" here..
edit on 5-6-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)


The video and the photo you posted to not add up...


The person in the video says that it was through and through bullet hole, yet a 6.5x52MM would have left a window spiderwebed or shattered, even after passing through the target.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 



The video and the photo you posted to not add up...


The person in the video says that it was through and through bullet hole, yet a 6.5x52MM would have left a window spiderwebed or shattered, even after passing through the target.


You're missing the point I was making... And It's that the presence of a hole, or a crack in the windshield, is not even close to being a new discovery as is being claimed here. Some seem to think it is and It's just not and I tried to show that by posting a picture of it and then a separate video from another time. As I said in my last post, the one you actually quoted btw, "It's been a part of the case ever since there has been a case."

I wasn't trying to debate whether It was a crack or an actual hole. But, It was obviously, in my personal opinion, a crack caused by fragments anyway.
edit on 5-6-2012 by Rising Against because: Even moderators make typos!



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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This gif file was made by Robin Unger and depicts the official crack and the bullet hole/defect captured by James Altgens, a press photographer. He snapped it at Zapruder frame 255.


en.wikipedia.org...

Harry Russell Freeman, a DPD motorcycle officer.

According to Murder from Within (1974) by Fred T. Newcomb and Perry Adams, Gil Toff interviewed Freeman in 1971 for the book. Toff reported that Freeman said he observed a hole in the windshield when the car stood outside the Emergency Room at Parkland Hospital. "I was right beside it," said Freeman. "I could have touched it. It was a bullet hole. You could tell what it was."

Stavis Ellis, a DPD motorcycle officer.

The day after interviewing Freeman, Gil Toff interviewed Ellis. According to Toff, Ellis told him, "There was a hole in the left front windshield... you could put a pencil through it."

Ellis was also interviewed by Larry Sneed for No More Silence (1998). According to Sneed, Ellis reported: I walked by the limousine after they were taken in... Some of the jockeys around the car were saying, 'Looky here!' What they were looking at was the windshield. To the right of where the driver was, just above the metal near the bottom of the glass there appeared to be a bullet hole. I talked to a Secret Service man about it, and he said, 'Aw, that's just a fragment!' It looked like a clean hole in the windshield to me. In fact, one of the motor jockeys, Harry Freeman, put a pencil through it, or said he could.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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www.jfkassassinationgallery.com...

Notice the defect below the mirror that closely matches the garage pic, but is missing the defect next to the mirror. I think the Altgens pic is higher and more left. The last pic is around frame 225 and shows the bottom defect that IMO more closely matches Altgens, and something right of the mirror. The lower defect would match Ellis's recollection.






posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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jfkassassination.net...

The bullet that hit jfk in the throat passed right over Connally's left shoulder and face. That is shown clearly by his startle reaction, not to the sound of the shot but the shock of a bullet whizzing past his head. Remember, both men reacted to the the first shot that missed, then the second shot went past Connally, and finally the Governor was hit by his own admission somewhere between 231-234.

A very, very brief span of time could not reasonably be the shot that missed because that would have been at least 3.5 seconds before the shot that hit the Governor. He is, in his own way describing the two shots that hit the President and him, which were separated by as little as a half of one second. That's why Connally was so sure two or more shooters were involved, although he tells us only indirectly why he knew.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?

Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time. Again my trend of thought just happened to be, I suppose along this line, I immediately thought that this--that I had been shot. I knew it when I just looked down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took, and I knew I had been hit, and I immediately assumed, because of the amount of blood, and in fact, that it had obviously passed through my chest. that I had probably been fatally hit.

So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.
Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else.
I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----






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